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shcbris.
01-30-2018, 10:29 PM
Have been ripping my music library using dbP for several years.
Ripped simultaneously to FLAC, ALAC and LAME.
There are a lot of music apps that do not display the composer metadata.
Found one called HiFi cast +DLNA because I bought a Chromecast Audio that does.
Now HiFi Cast only can play FLAC or LAME not ALAC at present.
It can play to the Chromecast or to my blue tooth speakers from NAS or on board memory.
When playing using Hi Fi Cast I am still having difficulty displaying the composer metadata properly.
More than 90% of my music library have the multiple composer metadata ( maybe as well as artist meta data ) is separated by a semi colon ;
The rest of the tracks use a forward slash instead of a semi colon depending on what was used during ripping.
I am also assuming that the multiple artist info maybe / could be affected by this semi colon vs forward slash issue.
It appears that if the composer info is separated by a semi colon ;

eg
George Harrison; John Lennon; Paul McCartney; Ringo Starr

Then the HiFi cast only displays the last composer in the list of composers ie in the above example Ringo Star
For tracks that have multiple artists separated by a / then all the composers are displayed

eg
George Harrison/ John Lennon/ Paul McCartney/ Ringo Starr

I can change the composer meta data on my hard drive to and from
George Harrison; John Lennon; Paul McCartney; Ringo Starr
to
George Harrison/ John Lennon/ Paul McCartney/ Ringo Starr
and it works properly with a forward slash but does not with a semi colon every time.
Given that dbPoweramp and other rippers seem to use a semi colon mostly or a forward slash then it would appear that maybe it would be a good idea
to have HiFi Cast accept both?
To compound this if I play the same track or tracks using LAME the composer metadata presents correctly even though the separator is a semi colon ;
The app developers say that this is unlikely to be an app issue??
They were pointing the finger at my NAS but if I put the same music files onto the micro SD card on the tablet I get the same issue.
With FLAC and the separator being a semi colon the composer data ( and probably multiple artist ) info does not display all the names just the last name.
With FLAC with a slash the composer metadata displays all as expected.
With LAME it does not seem to mater if the separator is a semi colon or a slash the composer metadata displays all as expected.
So I am wondering why....
Is it an app issue?
Is it a FLAC issue?
Or ?
I am a little perplexed.
Anyone with any ideas / solutions?
Thanks

Dat Ei
01-31-2018, 01:58 AM
Hey shcbris,

I can remember that I had similar problems and problems in understanding. For me the key to understand the problem has been to understand multiple tags (for artist, composer etc. pp.), their representation in dBpa and in media players.

In the dBpa user interface the "; " (semicolon + space) is used to represent and separate tags. If those tags can be stored in multiple, separate tags depends mainly on the codec you use (and your configuration of the codec). I.e. so in case of flac each artist or composer, who has been separated in the dBpa GUI by "; " would be stored in a separate tag.


in dBpa GUI: "Bobby McFerrin; Chick Corea"

in flac two separate tags: "Bobby McFerrin" and "Chick Corea"


If the codec or your configuration doesn't allow separate tags the tag is stored just in one tag.


in dBpa GUI: "Bobby McFerrin; Chick Corea"

in mp3 ID3v2.3 one tags: "Bobby McFerrin; Chick Corea"

in mp3 ID3v2.4 two tags: "Bobby McFerrin" and "Chick Corea"


What you see in your media player depends of the capabilities / configuration of the player. If the player can handle multiple tags and your files have multiple tags, everything is fine. The player can display, manage and organize each of the the separate tags. If not, you will see only one of the tags. In case of Sonos you see the first tag of the multiple tags, in case of your player it seems to be the last. That cuts down the possibilites to access and organize your music.

If you have only single tags (like in mp3 ID3v2.3) some player display the tag as is (i.e. "Bobby McFerrin; Chick Corea"), and some player substitue the "; " by a forward slash (i.e. "Bobby McFerrin / Chick Corea").

I hope I could give you a little idea of the concepts.


Dat Ei

shcbris.
01-31-2018, 02:07 PM
Thanks Dat Ei.
The separator method I used mainly was semicolon space ie in your example "Bobby McFerrin; Chick Corea".
Probably at least 90% of my music library is with the semicolon convention. The rest the forward slash convention.
Those tracks that use the forward slash convention are fine.
Also the same tracks in LAME format present the composer info fine (using the same music player)even though the semicolon space convention is used.
Does this mean my only alternative is to convert all my tracks to the forward slash convention?
Hope not...I have 50,000 tracks:eek:
Would there be an automated way of doing this without risking screwing everything up?
I would hate to have to start again...
Thanks again
Steve

Dat Ei
01-31-2018, 02:15 PM
Hey Steve,


The separator method I used mainly was semicolon space ie in your example "Bobby McFerrin; Chick Corea".

you have used that method with dBpa? What codec? flac?


Those tracks that use the forward slash convention are fine.

But that is from my point of view a problem of your player.


Does this mean my only alternative is to convert all my tracks to the forward slash convention?

I wouldn't do that. I would do it the other way round and try to fix the files with the forward slash. Once you have fixed it in your source files you can convert it easyly into files with forward slashes.


Would there be an automated way of doing this without risking screwing everything up?

There is always a way to to this, as long as you have enough disc space.


Dat Ei

shcbris.
01-31-2018, 02:39 PM
I ripped all my music using dbP to Lossless FLAC as well as I have another copy in ALAC and another in LAME at CBR of 320kbps.
The tablet I am using is a Samsung Tab A and the music app is HiFi Cast music app.
Like I said LAME does not seem to be a problem ( even though it has the separators as semicolon space just as does the FLAC version) playing with the same music app only the FLAC version.
HiFi Cast wont play ALAC.
Are you saying to go through every track and manually change from a semicolon space to a slash?
Not sure I have the patience to do that...
Going to try using Foobar2000 mobile when I get a chance.
Steve

Dat Ei
01-31-2018, 03:01 PM
If I got you right, the majority of your flac files are tagged with "; ". So I would try to identify and fix those flac files with the slashes. I think the DSP ID Tag Processing could do the job. A conversion to ALAC at the end of the day should be no problem at all.

In a last step you convert your fixed lossless files into mp3 files. You can then choose if you like to have ID3v2.3 or ID3v2.4 tags.


Dat Ei

shcbris.
01-31-2018, 03:18 PM
50,000 tracks...do not think I have the time to do it individually. Each format FLAC, ALAC and LAME has about 50000 tracks.
Tried Foobar2k mobile...will not present composer data at all when music played from the NAS whether FLAC or LAME or ALAC.
So Foobar2k mobile does not seem to be as "friendly" when playing from the NAS as far as composer info is concerned.
But will show the composer info if the files are played from the micro SD in the Tablet. Whether FLAC or LAME or ALAC theres no problem.
Just to be more confusing....Not only that when playing from the mico SD card in the Tablet with:
ALAC even though the tracks use semicolon as separators it displays as a forward slash on the tablet screen..
FLAC even though the tracks use semicolon as separators it displays as a coma on the tablet screen..
LAME even though the tracks use semicolon as separators it displays as a forward slash on the tablet screen..
Talk about annoying..had I known about this years ago I would certainly have used the forward slash.
This sort of thing does my head in...:)
Gotta love standards...there are so many to choose from...:)

Just tried another player called BubbleUpnP same sort of issues with semicolon..
Hopefully there is a solution without having to do mass changes.

garym
01-31-2018, 04:45 PM
foobar2000 can display composers. and it can display multiple value tags (I do this with artist or album artist). It is very configurable. But it does require that you set it up to display these things. They don't show up out of the box. Search the foobar2000 forum (hydrogenaud.io) for hints on how to setup.

mp3tag and its advanced "actions" can be programed to batch convert with a few mouse clicks from ; to / etc. It's all programmable. See their forum for assistance.
https://forums.mp3tag.de/

shcbris.
01-31-2018, 04:55 PM
Thanks Gary.
I already modified Foobar2K mobile to display the composer data and it does display provided but not directly from the NAS just if its locally stored on the device that its playing on.
Are you saying that I can do a batch convert using the mp3tag programme on a huge database of files just for say the composer field ( and maybe the artist field uses ; as well for multiple artists ) ?
Thanks
Steve

garym
01-31-2018, 05:05 PM
Thanks Gary.
I already modified Foobar2K mobile to display the composer data and it does display provided but not directly from the NAS just if its locally stored on the device that its playing on.
Are you saying that I can do a batch convert using the mp3tag programme on a huge database of files just for say the composer field ( and maybe the artist field uses ; as well for multiple artists ) ?
Thanks
Steve

got it. I use foobar mobile too, but I was actually referring to foobar2000 (not the mobile app). Yes, mp3tag can do lots of sophisticated batch procedures on audio files (mp3, m4a, flac, wav, alac, etc.). Be careful there are some bogus programs with similar names. this is the real program download:
https://www.mp3tag.de/en/dodownload.html

The forum is pretty helpful with specific questions on programing,

shcbris.
01-31-2018, 05:13 PM
Ok..Thanks again.
I am sure I am not the only one in this boat given that the semicolon separator is the pretty common when ripping with dbP... but probably its just I like to see all the info :)
See how I go..

mville
01-31-2018, 07:57 PM
Have a look at this, for more understanding of multi-value tags and the use of separators:
Tagging multiple composers (https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?40121-Tagging-multiple-composers)

It is very confusing, so you will need to fully understand the multi-value tag concept, the use of separators and how different software vary in the way they display/edit multi-value tags, otherwise you will get in a mess.

I totally agree with Dat Ei's suggestion in post no. 6, as the way forward here and I also agree with garym's suggestion that these fixes are often best accomplished using MP3Tag.

shcbris.
01-31-2018, 08:15 PM
Thanks.
Appreciate the help.
Yes if I convert the FLAC to LAME mp3 using dbP batch converter and play on the player
the composer info comes out as you would expect.
So even though the FLAC music files have the separator as a semicolon to begin with when they get converted to LAME mp3
files by the batch converter they become a forward slash when multiple composer data is there. Obviously any composer info that has a single composer is not affected either way.
While that is all well and good...it would be preferable to play using FLAC lossless..instead of LAME at 320kbps
But as the Stone's sang ''You can't always get what you want"....easily that is :)
Maybe these idiosyncrasies should be highlighed a little more prominately.... or maybe I just missed it. :)

mville
02-01-2018, 06:22 AM
Yes if I convert the FLAC to LAME mp3 using dbP batch converter and play on the player
the composer info comes out as you would expect.
So even though the FLAC music files have the separator as a semicolon to begin with when they get converted to LAME mp3
files by the batch converter they become a forward slash when multiple composer data is there. Obviously any composer info that has a single composer is not affected either way.

No, this not correct and is what I meant earlier about fully understanding the issues involved here. The flac files do not have any separator, only multi-value data values. The separator is only used when displaying multi-values in software. dBpoweramp uses a semi-colon and a space within it's GUI.

Example. A flac file might contain a multi-value COMPOSER such as:
COMPOSER=George Harrison
COMPOSER=John Lennon
COMPOSER=Paul McCartney
COMPOSER=Ringo Starr

Depending on the software you use to view this tag and the file format you are viewing, it may look different.
In Illustrate's software (inc. dBpoweramp), for flac files (and mp3 files), it will look like this:
George Harrison; John Lennon; Paul McCartney; Ringo Starr

However, in MP3Tag, for flac files, it will look like this:
George Harrison\\John Lennon\\Paul McCartney\\Ringo Starr

This is further complicated with mp3 as the behaviour differs between the ID3 tagging system versions ID3v2.3 and ID3v2.4, where ID3v2.3 does not support multi-value tags, whereas ID3v2.4 does. FYI, flac uses the vorbis comment tagging system.

From what you have stated in this thread, I suspect you are writing ID3v2.3 tags in your mp3 files, so on conversion from flac to mp3, your composer tag is converted from a multi-value tag to a single value tag containing the data value:
George Harrison / John Lennon / Paul McCartney / Ringo Starr

which is what you are seeing in your HiFi Cast app for mp3 files. I suspect also that the HiFi Cast app does not support multi-value tags as only the last composer is being displayed for flac files as your flac composer is a multi-value tag.

These issues are common (but often misunderstood) issues as many users are using ID3v2.3 for mp3 file creation. It is the same issue I faced with my flac files and mp3 files. I use foobar2000 (which supports multi-value tags) to play my flac files and iTunes/iPod Classic 160GB (which does not support multi-value tags) to play my mp3 files. See here for more info:
ID3v2.3, ID3v2.4 and multi-value tags (https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?30357-ID3v2-3-ID3v2-4-and-multi-value-tags)

So before proceeding, the first question is how have you configured your mp3 codec in dBpoweramp?
Go to dBpoweramp Control Center >> Audio Codecs: List / Options >> mp3 ID Tagging
What is Tag Creation and ID3v2 Version showing?

mville
02-01-2018, 06:24 AM
While that is all well and good...it would be preferable to play using FLAC lossless..instead of LAME at 320kbps
But as the Stone's sang ''You can't always get what you want"....easily that is :)
Maybe these idiosyncrasies should be highlighed a little more prominately.... or maybe I just missed it. :)

You simply need to use a player that supports multi-value tags.

shcbris.
02-01-2018, 03:39 PM
Thanks again to all who has given me advice.
Did a batch job using the mp3tag utility that Gary suggested.
Was able to modify the multiple composer and artist metadata from "; " to "/ " on all tracks.
Tried it on 10 albums first to test.
Was able to then do all approx 50000 tracks at once in two stages.
First run for the composer modify and second run for the artist.
This worked faster than I thought when modifying files on a 4TB USB drive.
I then tried to do the same with the NAS.
The NAS seems to be ok with only 1 folder at a time for some reason instead of being able to do the all the folders at once.
ie my FLAC files are on the drive as:
FLAC-Lossless (then under that as individual Artist Names with multiple albums for each artist )
eg
AC/DC
Aerosmith
Al Kooper
etc etc
So with the USB drive I can just use the FLAC-Lossless directory and do all the tracks for all artists at once
But cannot do the with the NAS. Have to do each artist folder 1 at a time.
But its progress and better than having to change each track manually one at a time.
Hopefully the "/ " was the correct separator tag.
Should I do this for ALAC as well after I am happy with the FLAC changes or are ALAC and LAME not that fussy with "; " versus "/ "
as a separator?
Now running all the music files on the USB drive through FLAC Tester after modifying.

garym
02-01-2018, 03:56 PM
Good progress. odd that the NAS files don't allow you to just choose top directory. I can do things with mp3tag on my NAS files on the network and it can deal with subdirectories just fine. Not sure what could be causing that. File permissions? or ????

regarding ALAC, no clue as to what ALAC players expect to see. I'd just test with a few files and your players and see how it gets handled with ; vs /.

shcbris.
02-01-2018, 04:24 PM
Just testing with the two music apps that can present the composer data...others like 8Player or mconnect HD do not seem to have the option.
On Android
HiFi Cast +DLNA - composer data is presented now including multiple composers.

On Android or iOS
Foobar2k mobile - does not present any composer info ( when played from the same NAS ).
Only time composer info is shown on Foobar2k mobile is if the music is loaded locally on the Tablet ie on the micro SD in this instance.
( NB - I have modded my Foobar2k mobile skin so that composer info can be / is presented)

mville
02-02-2018, 05:42 AM
It appears that if the composer info is separated by a semi colon ;

eg
George Harrison; John Lennon; Paul McCartney; Ringo Starr

Then the HiFi cast only displays the last composer in the list of composers ie in the above example Ringo Star
For tracks that have multiple artists separated by a / then all the composers are displayed

eg
George Harrison/ John Lennon/ Paul McCartney/ Ringo Starr

I understand that the app developers have stated:
that this is unlikely to be an app issue??

However, I loaded HiFi cast android app to my device and I get the same i.e. only displaying the last composer in a multi-value composer tag.

I believe this issue needs resolving in the app, rather than users having to convert all multi-value composers to single tags, as a workaround. Not wanting to rain on your parade here, but IMO, this is a case of the tail wagging the dog.

In addition, I only found this to be a problem when reading tracks directly from the SD card. When accessing tracks via UPnP/DLNA (in this case Asset UPnP), multi-value composers display correctly. Interestingly, each composer is separated with a comma and a space.

Oggy
02-02-2018, 11:24 AM
You simply need to use a player that supports multi-value tags.

I use the standard dbpoweramp settings of a semi-colon with a space. From a Synology NAS, both the Synology app, DS audio and LMS display the correct multi-value tags, but with a forward slash and no space. John Lennon; Paul McCartney becomes, John Lennon/Paul McCartney.

As mville stated, this seems to be solely down to how a player, or app handles the multi-value tags.

mville
02-02-2018, 11:27 AM
I use the standard dbpoweramp settings of a semi-colon with a space. From a Synology NAS, both the Synology app DS audio and LMS display the correct multi-value tags, but with a forward slash and no space.

Yes, different softwares use different character combinations, when displaying multi-value tags.


John Lennon; Paul McCartney becomes, John Lennon/Paul McCartney.

What you are really saying here is dBpoweramp displays:
John Lennon; Paul McCartney

while the Synology app DS audio and LMS displays:
John Lennon/Paul McCartney

as NO separator characters are written to file for multi-value tags.

Oggy
02-02-2018, 11:36 AM
Yes, different softwares use different character combinations, when displaying multi-value tags.

What you are really saying here is dBpoweramp displays:
John Lennon; Paul McCartney

while the Synology app DS audio and LMS displays:
John Lennon/Paul McCartney

as NO separator characters are written to file for multi-value tags.

Yes.

shcbris.
02-02-2018, 04:37 PM
It would be very nice to find out what is the best convention to use or at least before you use them have some sort of info in the specs to indicate potential issues dependent on tagging options..
I spent many hours changing my FLAC files...as I have 4 copies, I changed 3 ( out 2 NAS's and 2 USB drives ) to the "/ " separator and kept 1 drive with ": "
I like HiFi Cast but also Foobar2K mobile and mconnect HD also Neutron ( but this is too cumbersome in my opinion).
Foobar2k mobile does not really have as good a search function though as HiFi Cast.
So at present till something better comes along its HiFi Cast from android devices.
But even though the composer info is not really a big thing to most people... given that the metadata is there why not use it...
I would like to see a list of players others use especially for NAS ----> Android or iPad-------> bluetooth speaker etc.
Especially what players are "tag friendly" so that I don't have to stuff around with the files too much.
The naming I used with dbP when ripping by the way was:

[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[IFCOMP]Various Artists[][IF!COMP][artist][][]\[album]\[track] [artist] - [title]

Not sure whether this has an impact but it is what I have used since first using dbP so thought I would stick with it.
Thanks again

Dat Ei
02-02-2018, 04:57 PM
Instead of loving any player software you should love your music files. My impression is that you are on the best way to spoil your files. Take care about your files, the tagging and the standardized tagging conventions first. These files are your film stripes or raw files, just to make a comparision to photography.
Once those files are ok, you can convert to any codec and unusual or faulty tagging convention, like the on of Hifi Cast.


Dat Ei

shcbris.
02-02-2018, 05:15 PM
Thanks.
Point taken.
I would of rather liked not had to do anything. I am not thinking of changing anything else.
Music still plays as it did except I can see the composer info.
Also I only changed FLAC not the ALAC or LAME version. Working out which players dont handle tagging properly is the art I guess.
I was surprised that Foobar2k mobile does not seem to be multitag friendly either given its seeming dbP ties...The fb2k mob forum site is not too responsive and I have basically given up that avenue.
If I had the opportunity and patience to do it all again I would of ripped to wav also.
Steve

mville
02-02-2018, 07:34 PM
I would of rather liked not had to do anything. I am not thinking of changing anything else.
Music still plays as it did except I can see the composer info.

That is the point here, you didn't have to do anything as dBpoweramp is creating your flac composer tags fine. You (understandably) assumed a problem with your flac files, when the problem lies with the HiFi Cast app when reading flac files from a storage location and not parsing multi-value composer tags correctly.


I was surprised that Foobar2k mobile does not seem to be multitag friendly either given its seeming dbP ties...

Based on my experience of foobar2000, I'd be very surprised if this were the case.

shcbris.
02-02-2018, 08:23 PM
mville, thanks.
Have fed back to the developer that they should do some more testing on this.
First up they suggested the problem was with the NAS and the ripped files...then FLAC..
Out of interest...could I ask what music player app do you use? Or Dat Ei or Garym or Oggy?
Can waste a lot of $ trying various ones out..which I have done.
Thanks again
Steve

mville
02-03-2018, 05:06 AM
Have fed back to the developer that they should do some more testing on this.
First up they suggested the problem was with the NAS and the ripped files...then FLAC..

Yes, good idea. You could even refer them to this thread.

... FYI, once this issue is resolved you can use MP3Tag to retrieve your original flac multi-value composer tags. Assuming your composer tags now contain forward slash and space (to separate composers), simply create an action group in MP3Tag with 2 actions, a Replace action and a Split field by separator action:
Replace "COMPOSER": "/ " -> "~"
Split field by separator "COMPOSER": "~"



Out of interest...could I ask what music player app do you use? Or Dat Ei or Garym or Oggy?
Can waste a lot of $ trying various ones out..which I have done.

I have a flac library and run foobar2000, which I control with foobarcon android app.

For portability, I convert the flac library to mp3 and import into iTunes to sync with my iPod Classic 160GB. When micro SD cards become affordable and increase in capacity, I will ditch mp3/iTunes/iPod altogether.

Oggy
02-03-2018, 09:11 AM
Out of interest...could I ask what music player app do you use? Or Dat Ei or Garym or Oggy?
Can waste a lot of $ trying various ones out..which I have done.
Thanks again
Steve
I rip directly from laptop via a wired connection to a Synology NAS which has the music files and LMS (Logitech Media Server), this has a wired connection to a Logitech Squeezebox Touch. On an Android tablet, I have Synology DS audio and DS file, Foobar mobile and Squeeze Ctrl, an Android app which displays the music and controls the Touch.

Foobar2000 is installed on the laptop.

garym
02-04-2018, 08:02 AM
1. for office computer and travel computer (laptop), use foobar2000 as library/player
2. For home system use primarily Logitech Media Server (LMS) as music server (running 24/7 on headless linux fanless computer in cabinet in rear of house) and various squeezebox players as endpoints. Most connected via ethernet, some WIFI connected. These include Squeezebox Transporter, TOUCH, RADIO, BOOMs. Control all this via my laptop desktop (when sitting in front on laptop) or iPeng app on iphone or ipad. The iphone and ipad can also simulate squeezebox players using iPeng. I can play the same audio through all these various players simultaneously or play different things to different rooms.
3. I'm experimenting with a Roon Server setup as well for home. It can play through various sorts of network connected endpoints, including squeezebox players, SONOS players, and others.
4. For portable, use iphone, ipad, or 160GB iPod. I have a mirror library of mp3 files (lame mp3 -V2, ID Tag ID3v2.3). I frankly haven't paid much attention to whether this picks up multivalue tags. I don't think iTunes reads multivalue tags.

All my servers/players can handle multivalue tags in my FLAC files with no issues using standard tagging (that is, ripped with dbpa with ";" as separator).

shcbris.
02-04-2018, 03:17 PM
Thanks to all..good to see what others are doing.
End result from the "developer" after pointing out the issue of the Hi Fi Cast app was a one liner
"Great to hear you got it working - even though you had to resort to using circumvention."
Was a little disappointed but I guess my issue with is in the minority. Not sure of the degree of difficulty to fix...
So I wont be holding my breath for any fix...
Thanks

shcbris.
02-16-2018, 05:39 PM
Got my FLAC files updated and added lots more composer info for some of the tracks that had none.
So now the composer metadata for the FLAC library are in the form:
composer1 / composer2 etc etc and this presents well in the music player I am using.
So rather than redo the same for my ALAC version manually I want to use Batch Converter to produce an ALAC version of the FLAC library.
So I did a test.
The current ALAC library use the ; separator
When I use the Batch Converter of the FLAC files that I changed to the " / " separator it converts it to a " \ " for ALAC
Is this likely to present a problem?
I am still a little confused as to why ; or / or \ or doesn't it matter which is used and really depends ( like said before ) as to what the player needs.
Better still is there a best preference or practice depending on which encoder is used.
Just wanted to know before thinking about converting the whole library.
As an added bit of side info...Still cannot get the composer info to present when using Foobar20000 mobile when playing from the NAS does not matter whether a ; or / or \ is used. Does display the composer info if playing from a local music source on the ipad or tablet ie located in local storage..does my head in..:)
Thanks
Steve

mville
02-16-2018, 08:49 PM
I just edited a flac using Edit ID-Tag, so composer was edited from composer1; composer2
to composer1 / composer2

When I convert the flac to alac (using dBpoweramp R16.4 for windows), when viewed in Edit ID-Tag, the alac composer is composer1 / composer2

In which application are you seeing the expected forward slash changed to a back slash?

shcbris.
02-16-2018, 09:30 PM
Just upgraded to R16.4..was on I think R16.2......and as you say now there is a forward slash....
Thanks for the fast response.
Jeeze...frustrating, was not really expecting this difference from 16.2 to 16.4.
But anyway did 3 albums and looks ok...glad it was that easy.
Just out of interest the difference between ; and / just arbitary?
Thanks again

mville
02-17-2018, 05:37 AM
Just upgraded to R16.4..was on I think R16.2......and as you say now there is a forward slash....
Thanks for the fast response.
Jeeze...frustrating, was not really expecting this difference from 16.2 to 16.4.
But anyway did 3 albums and looks ok...glad it was that easy.
Just out of interest the difference between ; and / just arbitary?

I can only assume that when converting to alac, the forward slash to back slash change, was a bug.

dBopweramp inserts a semi-colon + space separator, when displaying multi-value tags.

My understanding of this thread is that you have edited your (multi-value) composer tags, so they are no longer multi-value tags, rather a single value tag containing a single string e.g.:
composer 1 / composer 2

The forward slash is just a character that you have used in the composer tag. It could be any character. There is no separator, as there is nothing to separate.

... please confirm this, by opening a flac file (where composer contains a forward slash) in MP3Tag and viewing the extended tags (ALT+T). In the extended tags window first column, how many instances of COMPOSER are listed?

https://i.imgur.com/s86C1FM.jpg

shcbris.
02-17-2018, 04:28 PM
https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/asset.php?fid=1907&uid=29110&d=1518905875

Here is my info re the same track.
Is what you are saying that the multi value tag is really only the ; and all that I have done is really just made
the name of the composer one giant composer separated by a /
That said should I really just of left it as a ; as it was and found a player that could handle it properly?

shcbris.
02-17-2018, 06:18 PM
Hi mville, posted a response earlier to to above question but as yet it has not appeared..?
Wondering if its best just to convert the composer metadata back to a "; " ( semicolon + space ) as it was originally and just find a music app ( or NAS or whatever ) that can handle it properly.
Just looks like all I've managed to do is to make one giant composer name where multiple composers are involved by using a forward slash to separate the names.
If I go to the trouble of using mp3tag to change all the composer and multiple artists files back is "; " ( semicolon + space ) or just a semicolon on its own ";" (with no space).
the way to go for both FLAC and ALAC
Or just a semicolon on its own ";" with no space
Maybe should of left well enough alone in the first place.
Don't really want to do it too many times....:eek:
Thanks

mville
02-17-2018, 08:12 PM
Wondering if its best just to convert the composer metadata back to a "; " ( semicolon + space ) as it was originally and just find a music app ( or NAS or whatever ) that can handle it properly.

This would be my approach.


Just looks like all I've managed to do is to make one giant composer name where multiple composers are involved by using a forward slash to separate the names.

Yes, this is how I understand it and your app just displays this one giant composer.


If I go to the trouble of using mp3tag to change all the composer and multiple artists files back is "; " ( semicolon + space ) or just a semicolon on its own ";" (with no space).
the way to go for both FLAC and ALAC
Or just a semicolon on its own ";" with no space

Firstly, I work on my flac files only. When I know my flac library is as I want it, then I convert it to other formats e.g. alac, mp3 etc.

If you were to convert the flac composer tags in dBpoweramp, you would use '; ' (semi-colon + space), but MP3Tag uses a different multi-value separator to dBpoweramp. For flac files, in MP3Tag the separator is '\\' (backslash + backslash).

Also, MP3Tag uses a special action Split field by separator action to convert tags to multi-value tags. See my post no. 28, which describes the 2 actions that you need to do this, which you combine in an action group. Action groups are saved in MP3Tag, so you can re-use them.

Make sure you test on a single flac, until you are familiar with what is going on and to confirm the conversion is successful:
view the composer in the main MP3Tag window (it should be):
composer 1\\composer 2

and view the composer in the dBpoweramp windows file explorer context menu option, Edit ID-Tag (it should be):
composer 1; composer 2

shcbris.
02-17-2018, 09:54 PM
Thanks mville.
I am just planning to replace the / with a "; " for the composer info and for the multiple artist metadata where it was changed from the ; scenario get it back to how it was hopefully before mucking around with it..
That'll teach me to try and be too smart for my own good.
Thanks..

garym
02-17-2018, 11:35 PM
Thanks mville.
I am just planning to replace the / with a "; " for the composer info and for the multiple artist metadata where it was changed from the ; scenario get it back to how it was hopefully before mucking around with it..
That'll teach me to try and be too smart for my own good.
Thanks..

as mville points out simply changing back to ; won&*8217;t work. You need to change to &*8220;\\&*8221; with no space. Or so simply return to your prechange backup files (which you should have).

shcbris.
02-18-2018, 01:25 AM
Garym...not sure what you are getting at in your last post..keep in mind we all do not have the skills you guys have.
Hopefully "won&*8217;t work" is not meant to be a profanity.
As to "&*8220;\\&*8221;" this is meaningless to me except for the \\
Wishing now that you had not mentioned mp3tag in the first place.

shcbris.
02-18-2018, 04:24 AM
garym..don't get me wrong from my last post....I'm just frustrated..wasted a lot of time and while I have my backup copy..I did want to make some progress on this. So I appologize for my comment about the mp3tag etc ...know you are only try to help me.
So currently all the composer info and artist info have a semicolon + space "; "separating multiple composers or artists.
This was done using mp3tag.
So is what I am supposed to do if I am understanding this correctly
Using mp3tag
Using quick actions...
For Composer (or Artist)
1. In actions...Do a replace option and replace "; " to \\
2.Then after this using split field by separator with a "~" symbol
3, Then save
For each file.
Is it that straight forward?

garym
02-18-2018, 06:32 AM
Sorry, when posting from my iPhone, the forum converts quote marks etc into nonsense characters, or maybe these are the ascii code for the character. But yes, mp3tag uses \\ to indentify multi value tags. Not sure the steps as Im away from my computer. I would need to experiment.

mville
02-18-2018, 06:51 AM
I am just planning to replace the / with a "; " for the composer info and for the multiple artist metadata where it was changed from the ; scenario get it back to how it was hopefully before mucking around with it..
That'll teach me to try and be too smart for my own good.

Yes I understand. But, in MP3Tag, simply replacing ' / ' with '; ', won't get you back to your original multi-value composer and artist tags.

In MP3Tag select Actions, not Actions (Quick), to open the Actions Group window. You are going to create an Action Group containing 4 actions, 2 for the Composer tag and 2 for the Artist tag. Now, click the New button, name the new Action Group and this then opens the Actions window.

Now, you need to create 2 actions in the Actions window for the Composer tag. Click the New button and create a Replace action. Set Field: COMPOSER and I suggested you replace ' / ' with a unique character i.e. the tilde character '~' (you can replace ' / ' to whatever character you want, but make sure the character is unique i.e. it is a character that you have not used in your composer and artist tags). The first action is now created.

Next, while still in the Actions window, click the New button again and create a second action, Split field by separator, set Field: COMPOSER and Separator being the replacement character used in the first action i.e. the tilde characater '~'.

Next, copy the 2 actions using the Duplicate button to create 2 more identical actions. Click the Edit button and set Field: ARTIST on both duplicated actions. So, you now have 4 actions. 2 of these actions process the composer tag and 2 actions process the artist tag. Note you can move actions up and down the action list, using the move up and move down buttons:

https://i.imgur.com/99KmjQV.jpg

The 4 actions make up an Action Group, which is saved in MP3Tag when you click the OK button, so you can select the Action Group again and run it on all your flac files, only when you are sure the Action Group is working successfully.

Test on a single flac, until you are familiar with what is going on. To confirm the Action Group has worked successfully:
view the composer and artist tags in the main MP3Tag window (they should be):
composer 1\\composer 2 and artist 1\\artist 2

and view the composer and artist tags in the dBpoweramp windows file explorer context menu option, Edit ID-Tag (they should be):
composer 1; composer 2 and artist 1; artist 2

mville
02-18-2018, 07:03 AM
garym..don't get me wrong from my last post....I'm just frustrated..wasted a lot of time and while I have my backup copy..I did want to make some progress on this.

Yes, I understand you are frustrated, but your were also advised and warned earlier in this thread, by myself and Dat Ei, but you ignored the advice. Posts no. 12 and 19 also tried to suggest you would run into problems. That is why it is important to read and understand the advice on offer in these forums, before dismissing it.

shcbris.
02-18-2018, 02:55 PM
Ok Thanks.
As far as dismissing the advice...didn't really need to be pointed out the obvious....I was maybe under the misapprehension / delusion though that this was reasonably straight forward.
Lets look at this from the consumer perspective.
I bought this program years ago and have paid for several updates over the years,
It states that you get perfect rips and that you get metadata from several sources. And indeed it does.
And I ripped basically the same way using a default naming scheme found on this site.
What is annoying is from my point of view is that, as you pointed out, all player apps seem to go there own way with respect to how they handle some of this metadata.
It even appears that mp3tag has a slightly different take on how all this works. Not real sure if anyone has it standardized.
Its almost like going back to propriety solutions situation instead of a universal solution.
Most people want to be able to just get an accurate rip..be able to play it on a player and basically have a display of things like
artist, album, track name, track number, duration, composer, album cover art . Maybe genre and a few other things are nice but essentially the main ones are of interest.
Maybe publish what player apps work with a dbpoweramp rip that can to display / extract these common fields.
But that is probably thinking too idealistically.
It seems almost that you need to have indepth knowledge of exactly how the players will work before you rip..and then rip in a form the player is expecting maybe.
or keep buying apps till you fluke one that does integrate with the metadata from your rip like I have been doing..
So my sons advice to me...why bother going to all this trouble..just do Deezer or Spotify or Tidal or whatever and let someone else worry about it.
But I will play with the files again it and follow your instructions... and then if its all to difficult... guess its back to the backup copy.
Thanks again and I have appreciated the advice and help even though I have been unable to make progress so far.
Pls take my comments as constructive criticism.

mville
02-18-2018, 04:27 PM
Lets look at this from the consumer perspective.
I bought this program years ago and have paid for several updates over the years,
It states that you get perfect rips and that you get metadata from several sources. And indeed it does.
And I ripped basically the same way using a default naming scheme found on this site.
What is annoying is from my point of view is that, as you pointed out, all player apps seem to go there own way with respect to how they handle some of this metadata.

Yes, I can see you are annoyed, but it is hardly the fault of the dBpoweramp software.

The problem you have is simply that the HiFi Cast app you use, only supports multi-value tags via UPnP/DLNA and does not parse multi-value tags correctly, when read directly from the file.


It even appears that mp3tag has a slightly different take on how all this works. Not real sure if anyone has it standardized.

Not true at all. The codec developers provide the standards which ripping/tagging and server/player softwares use. MP3Tag (and dBpoweramp) supports multi-value tags perfectly and does not have a slightly different take on how all this works, as the principles are the same.

Never, have different software applications performed identically. If I choose to use different software from different developers, which perform similar tasks, I have to learn how the individual software works, not assume that all the software works in exactly the same way.


Its almost like going back to propriety solutions situation instead of a universal solution.
Most people want to be able to just get an accurate rip..be able to play it on a player and basically have a display of things like artist, album, track name, track number, duration, composer, album cover art . Maybe genre and a few other things are nice but essentially the main ones are of interest.
Maybe publish what player apps work with a dbpoweramp rip that can to display / extract these common fields.
But that is probably thinking too idealistically.
It seems almost that you need to have indepth knowledge of exactly how the players will work before you rip..and then rip in a form the player is expecting maybe.
or keep buying apps till you fluke one that does integrate with the metadata from your rip like I have been doing..

As with anything, some products are good and some are not so good. I am also a consumer and before I decide to buy, I have to do a little homework to help me decide what to buy. This is something I did when deciding on the ripping/tagging software and server/player software I was going to use. To expect Illustrate to somehow keep up-to-date with hundreds of different 3rd party server/player softwares, is IMO, ridiculous.

It is not a question of apps working with dBpoweramp. dBpoweramp writes tags to different file formats according to the codec specifications. Server/player apps need to make sure that they adhere to these specifications or they are not going to work properly. Again, just because the HiFi Cast app does not work properly, it is not the fault or responsibility of dBpoweramp, so IMO, your criticisms here are misplaced and need directing to the appropriate place e.g. to the HiFi Cast app developers.

Some things are difficult and this is not a perfect tagging world, so I really appreciate the efforts that Illustrate (and MP3Tag) have gone to with their tools, to help make my life much easier when ripping and tagging.

Dat Ei
02-18-2018, 04:52 PM
It seems almost that you need to have indepth knowledge of exactly how the players will work before you rip..and then rip in a form the player is expecting maybe.

Sorry, but you did not understand the problem and the solution still.


Pls take my comments as constructive criticism.

How can this criticism be constructive, if the analysis of error is faulty?


Dat Ei

shcbris.
02-18-2018, 07:26 PM
Talk about sensitive...Dat E your two cents worth is absolutely worthless unnecessary criticism of myself. I know exactly what the problem is..just now wanted to know how to properly fix the tags after the run in with mp3tag so that it is back to how it was originally and garym and mville has thankfully tried to help me with this.
I stated that the issues are most likely with the player apps / writers and maybe the lack of adherence to standards..not dbP itself ..maybe except when there are code mistakes...which are only found out as you go..ie the R16.2 to R16.4 issue that I had the other day. Not really expecting perfection and realize that most bugs are engineered in the field these days by users..
Like I said I started off just trying to work out why the composer info does not display properly. Didn't want to get into a slanging match.
No criticism of dbP all along ... except for now I am getting shit put on me for not being an expert..I thought part of the deal of purchase was the support.
That said support is good although as a user I do not know who is responding is an employee of dbP organization .. or just another online person like me.
By the way I used the mp3tag Action method exactly as written / suggested.... did not work as suggested... it divided up the composers and artists into separate first and surnames..
ie
composer Robert
composer Plant
composer Jimmy
composer Page

So its back to the original backup for me.
and a warning to others...maybe its best to make sure you are an expert in the field of the question(s) you ask before asking..but then I would not have to of asked in the first place if I already was across it.

Spoon... was I asking too much or out of line?...appreciate the forum and most responses but jeeze when it gets down to it you should expect that there are people who buy your products that are not "experts" and will need more help / patience and pointing in the right direction than others. I do appreciate that the guys were very helpful except for some ill informed observations of my ability.
I cannot believe I am the first one to have issues with this sort of thing.
I also didn't really expect any personal criticism when I have been cordial all along.
Disappointing finish to this.

mville
02-18-2018, 08:13 PM
By the way I used the mp3tag Action method exactly as written / suggested.... did not work as suggested... it divided up the composers and artists into separate first and surnames..
ie
composer Robert
composer Plant
composer Jimmy
composer Page

So its back to the original backup for me.

I can only go on what you have described in this thread. So, assuming a composer tag is in the form of composer 1 / composer 2 e.g.:
Robert Plant / Jimmy Page

then I can assure you (and I have tested this myself), that the instructions in post no. 44 are correct and:
Robert Plant / Jimmy Page
will become:
Robert Plant\\Jimmy Page

OR, as viewed in the extended tag window:
COMPOSER Robert Plant
COMPOSER Jimmy Page

If you are getting Robert\\Plant\\Jimmy\\Page, then you are clearly not following the instructions, as you are replacing single spaces in your actions, i.e. the space between Robert and Plant plus Jimmy and Page, which is not part of those instructions.

Finally, I would also add, just in case other users are reading this thread, that users do not need to be experts, in order to use dBpoweramp (or MP3Tag).

shcbris.
02-18-2018, 08:29 PM
Thanks. Just to add your were right with your process...it was my misreading a character from my phone, so my apologies there.
That process does work and appreciate your efforts. Old eyes you know.Now using a PC screen..
Please disregard my comments re support..that was a heat of the moment remark..I should know better and settle down before posting.

mville
02-19-2018, 09:59 AM
Talk about sensitive...Dat E your two cents worth is absolutely worthless unnecessary criticism of myself.

Where and in what way, is Dat Ei criticizing you?

As for his two cents worth, I find Dat Ei's thoughts very helpful and useful, on these forums. For example, try re-reading this thread, especially his posts as they are not only helpful, but accurate.

shcbris.
02-19-2018, 02:26 PM
I'm a bit over this...I thought this was put to bed...you or your moderator could of removed it.
I sent you a private message yesterday, after leaving it past the 60mins to edit and not being able to change it myself, apologizing for any comments made in the heat of the moment and told you you could remove any comments that were put in in the heat of the moment as well as posted a retraction ...but for whatever reason you want to come back with this?
Maybe from this the warning about not running foul of the support should still stand.
Its up to others to make up their minds.
I guess ...Dats All Folks :eek:

mville
02-19-2018, 07:23 PM
I'm a bit over this...I thought this was put to bed...you or your moderator could of removed it.
I sent you a private message yesterday, after leaving it past the 60mins to edit and not being able to change it myself, apologizing for any comments made in the heat of the moment and told you you could remove any comments that were put in in the heat of the moment as well as posted a retraction ...but for whatever reason you want to come back with this?
Maybe from this the warning about not running foul of the support should still stand.
Its up to others to make up their minds.

Yes and I replied stating that I am an end user, so I am unable to moderate this forum.

That still does not help me understand why you feel criticized by Dat Ei's comments, when all that has gone on here, is users have tried to advise/help you and not criticize you.

Anyway, from these latest comments, you still appear to have some issue here, which I can't fathom, so I too am putting this one to bed.