PDA

View Full Version : No Plextor C2 detection



pls1
01-31-2008, 06:51 PM
I've been using dbPoweramp 12.4 Ref for a few weeks and I can't get it to detect C2 on any of my Plextor 760 or 755 drives. I've run Plextools Pro C2 detection test on all of these drives and configurations. Plextools shows the consistent spikes in C2 errors on my four "error test" CDs but dbpoweramp does not detect C2 support on any of them.

I've verified that the IDE is Ultra DMA 4 on four different MOBO/machines plus I've tried an external Firewire box with the Oxford chip set.

I've ripped about 200 classical albums with ultra-secure to APE and aside from some funny behavior trying to rip really damaged CDs which I reported earlier I've not had any functional problems with the program. All of the dbpoweramp error and "re-rip" areas match to the Plextools Pro report for C2 and CU errors. I've played back most tracks from my rips and all are fine.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong with C2?

Phil

Spoon
02-01-2008, 03:08 AM
Using Demon Tools?

pls1
02-01-2008, 09:17 AM
Nope. I'm not a media guy so Plextools and dbpoweramp are the only "pro" type tools I have.

Spoon
02-01-2008, 02:57 PM
There sometimes can be a SCSI layer installed which can interfere with such commands, older versions of Demon Tools, but I am sure there are others (as well as Sonys Root kit and the like, all has to go through these layers).

pls1
02-01-2008, 03:08 PM
So are you saying that a SCSI layer would interfere with dbpoweramp's ability to detect C2 but that Plextools Pro would have no problem communicating through that same SCSI layer to accurately report C2?

Phil

Spoon
02-02-2008, 03:19 AM
Make sure you are not using Windows Internal communication method, that one cannot work with c2 (CD Ripper >> Options)

Plextor often use different methods of communicating with their drives, if you have ASPI installed try that.

pls1
02-03-2008, 12:08 PM
The Plextor 760/755's were all installed on our high performance workstations with RAID controllers (Four different MOBOs/Controllers). I have SCSI pass through turned on but no luck on the workstations with C2. (yes all drivers and firmware are up-to-date)

I'm quite focused on getting C2 detection to work since I'm ripping my 5000+ classical collection that goes back to the dawn of the CD. I have many obscure and rare CDs or Japanese pressings. Therefore, even for my first test rips of 200 plus CD's of my "popular" CDs, AccurateRip gives me a hit rate of only 40% with almost half of these being alternate pressings and hence not matchable. Even with those that match, I've only had a trivial number where there are five compares. Hence, Ultra-Secure becomes the majority of the rips.

I commandeered my admin's Dell GX620 which is pure IDE/ATA inside and installed two Plextor 760's. C2 works fine and I can use both drives at the same time with two images of dbPoweramp. However, I tried three FireWire PCI cards and three external IDE interface boxes and none of them will detect C2, even on the IDE/ATA machine let alone the workstations despite the specs clearly stating DMA support.

Until I can get some kind of external connection I'm stuck with the Dell on a cart next to my office chair.

Any suggestions on Firewire encloses that will work with the 760A?

I've dug-up a never used Plextor 708UF and 755UF (Plextor Firewire versions) and when those arrive I'll report back.

Phil

kdq
02-07-2008, 11:21 AM
I'm using a PX-716UF without any trouble, on a piece-of-junk Shuttle mobo and XP sp2, hotfixes, drivers and firmware up-to-date. I don't have the depth of collection that you do (and am I jealous) but I have the same kind of problem with mine - obscure CDs and different pressings.

pls1
02-07-2008, 07:04 PM
Thanks for the UF reference. The problem is clearly with the on-board RAID Mobos.

I've now got two Dell GX-620 machines (which are purely ATA/IDE internal machines) set up with dual Plextor 760 drives. That setup detects C2 and works fine but these two machines are in addition to each of our main workstations. Even with remote desktop this isn't as convenient as a fire-wire attached drive to our main workstations. My wife and I share the office and we are taking turns turns ripping depending on who is out with a client.

I hope that the Plextor UF drives allow C2 detection using the RAID workstations. However, I'm somewhat pessimistic as I tried several external IDE enclosures with the 760's with the Oxford chip sets and could not get dbPowerAmp to detect the C2 data over FireWire, even on the ATA/IDE machines. PlexTools Pro can detect the C2 errors on all the machines and in every combination.

Even if I can just get the Plextor UF external drives to work with the old machines, at least we get them away from our chairs and move them into the closet. I'll report back as I should have a 708UF by the weekend.

Phil

pls1
02-09-2008, 11:18 AM
dbpoweramp will not detect C2 errors over Firewire with a Plextor packaged 708UF Firewire drive connected to either a RAID Mobo or a pure IDE/ATA machine with an add-on Firewire card.

dbpoweramp Options/CD ROM/Drive/Technical" menu shows "C2 Pointers: Yes" in all configurations Plextoools ProXL shows C2 errors in all configurations.

Question: What specific drive/enclosure/interface card configurations has anyone used over Firewire or USB that enable C2 detection with dbpoweramp?

Phil

Spoon
02-09-2008, 12:27 PM
If the firewire works on another machine (same OS and same hardware) then those raid cards must be installing filters, which filter. Are you sure that Plextools is using c2 pointers, generally Plextools will try ot use c2 on any drive which is Plextor and modern, does not mean it works though.

pls1
02-09-2008, 01:14 PM
No, Firewire Plextor 760UF DOES NOT work on the IDE/ATA machines while on the same machine the internal Plextor 760A on that machine will detect c2 errors with dbpoweramp.

Plextools Pro will run the Q check for C1/C2 on all machines no matter what MOBO or model of PX708/760/755.

I just ripped my C2 error test disc in Plextools ProXL to APE "use audio error detection" Right where the errors are shown in the Q-check C1/C2 graph, the Plextools log shows "errors detected speed reduced" followed by "Read error at 179776 (code 03028D)".

You will have to tell me if this is indicative of C2 detection although I have a hard time understanding how C2 could NOT be detected and yet have Plextools complete a consistently accurate C2 error graph on any machine/interface combination.

Phil



















gives me the error readout

Spoon
02-10-2008, 04:08 AM
Yes it looks like Plextools is using c2.

pls1
02-10-2008, 12:56 PM
OK -So we have an IDE/SATA machine where dbpoweramp can detect C2 on the internal Plextor PX-760 but CANNOT detect C2 errors on the Plextor 708UF over Firewire BUT PlexTools Pro can detect C2.

Note Plextools can also detect C2 errors on the RAID boards with PX-760s installed.

Can anyone name a specific Plextor drive/enclosure/Firewire board where dbpoweramp CAN detect C2 errors over firewire? I've found multiple posts that this does work (in the abstract) but no specific configurations.

Phil

pls1
02-10-2008, 07:30 PM
A tip of the hat to kdq

dbpoweramp will detect C2 errors over USB from the Plextor 708UF (as well as the Plextor 760A in an external USB enclosure) on BOTH the IDE/ATA machines and RAID MOBOs.

Given the big deal that is made about C2 detection utilization by dbpoweramp, perhaps a FAQ on machine configurations that will likely work/not work with dbpoweramp, even-though the drive itself supports C2, is in order.

Phil

bhoar
02-10-2008, 08:23 PM
Which firewire host chipset and bridge chipsets were being used?

-brendan

pls1
02-11-2008, 12:38 PM
Oxford 911 and 924 for the bridges on the two different add on enclosures. Not sure what the Plextor UF enclosure uses. Texas instruments for the 1394a on all MOBOs

I don't have the two different brands of 1394a/b add-in cards installed on any machines at the moment so I don't know and the chips do not have a logo.

Phil

pls1
02-17-2008, 07:06 PM
On the RAID MOBO machine I noticed PLextools ProXL had a background process running. I killed it and now dbpoweramp can detect C2 errors with the internal PX 755 drive where before dbpoweramp could not detect them.

BUT NOW, dbpoweramp CANNOT detect C2 Errors with the USB connected PX-760 (via an external IDE enclosure) to the RAID MOBO machine where before with PlexTols ProXL running in background dbpoweramp would detect C2 over USB.

I still can't get Firewire C2 detection in any configuration.

Fortunately, on the rebuilt IDE machines with Plextor ProTools XL running, dbpoweramp detects C2 errors on both internal IDE PX-760 drive as well as the USB connected 760 drive that I moved over from my RAID MOBO machine.

Another great Sunday afternoon of computer maintenance. I'm sticking to two dedicated IDE machines with clean XP installs, only dbpoweramp, browser and security software with two different models of Plextors for my 5000+ CD ripping project.

Phil

pls1
02-18-2008, 05:21 PM
I did a little more fiddling on some additional machines and I think that similar loss of C2 detection by dbpoweramp can be caused by some Creative, Roxio and Ulead tool configurations on RAID MOBO's. Pure IDE MOBO's seem to be immune (but I'd still be paranoid since I did not do extensive testing).

I guess the moral is, any funny behavior on C2 detection by dbpoweramp requires a machine clean of other DVD and CD tools to accurately troubleshoot. It's not just a Demon Tools problem. Second, IDE machines have more predicable behavior than newer MOBO's.

Perhaps some FAQ or documentation update somewhere is called for since most new machines will not be IDE and most come with some flavor of media software.

Phil

bhoar
02-18-2008, 07:47 PM
Phil -

Go into the system control panel (shortcut: windows-key + Pause/Break-key), then the hardware tab, then the Device Manager. Find your optical drive in the tree (e.g. DVD/CD-ROM drives, or something similar, open up that node, then find your drive by model number). Double click on it. In the popup box go to the Detail tab. Click on the drop down and find any entries that include "...Upper Filters" or "...Lower filters". For example, mine has four entries: "Device Upper Filters", "Device Lower Filters", "Class Upper Filters" and "Class Lower Filters".

One or more of the entries may have one or more filters installed. For example, on this thinkpad T60p with a plethora of burning, ripping and disc robotic software installed, I coincidentally see one filter driver per category:

"Device Upper Filters"
redbook
"Device Lower Filters"
imapi
"Class Upper Filters"
GEARAsWDM
"Class Lower Filters".
PxHelp20

The first two found are probably the normally installed microsoft filter drivers. The last two found are from third-party software. It is has been shown that some third party filter drivers can lead to problems both with device feature detection/testing as well as proper operation of these features in CD ripping (and in other areas). I haven't recently checked to see if the ones I have installed on this machine (a work machine) are problematic for ripping, however.

It might be worth checking these issues across your working and non-working machines / devices.

-brendan

pls1
02-18-2008, 08:35 PM
Thanks for your help.

All the machines WITHOUT Class Upper or Class Lower filters work as per your recommendation (I've given up on Firewire). SOME of the machines with Class Filters work, for example the Plextor supplied Ulead Blu-Ray burner for the Plextor B900A installed in the 755 instance.

However, the filters from Plextools ProXL interfered with the internal 755 drive on C2 but ENABLED C2 via USB on a 760 in an Oxford Chip set enclosure.

I'm done futzing around since I'm almost done building my three identical dual P4, 3GHz, IDE ripping machines with optical USB connections (already tested for C2 detection). Two machines go in the machine cage and the dual Plextor (760 and 230) enclosures go by the office chairs or my study. Remote desktop works fine and I can use my workstation or laptop to control the machines via wireless or Ethernet connection since I run my business out of one side of my house.

The third machine will be internal IDE on a cart, primarily for processing discs that need polishing to try to recover errors.

Again I suggest this is probably worthy of a FAQ since audio-enthusiast but non-geek users are going to have pre-installed media software on their machines that can interfere with dbpoweramp and hence a potentially lost sale and good word of mouth for an excellent product.

Now to focus on perfecting my work flow for 5000+ classical CDs.

Phil