Set-Up for Ripping

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, mville:
I'm learning but I still don't have it.

1) I don't know what version of dbpa CD Ripper I have; where do I find that? I know nothing about dbpa MUSIC CONVERTER.

2) At the bottom left of the Ripper screen under the Tags tab I see where I can add tags like Composer Sort to that box right there (not to the fields at the top of the screen). I don't understand the difference between items at the top and in the box at the bottom left or the relationship between them.

3) I see that sort tags reverse first and last names, but I still don't understand how the sort tags are utilized. That is:

a) Where does the sort name show up?

b) does this affect the way names are listed in the file name in the Naming String and Windows File Explorer, or does it affect the way tags appear in my player display when I'm looking to play music?

c) If sort tags are used does that change the way name are presented in BOTH the File Explorer and the Player search display?

d) To employ sort tags, is all I do, make a selection of such in the bottom left box under Tag tap?

e) Is sort tags something I just select or "turn on" (in this case for Composer) which then puts two tags (both composer and composer sort) in the folder which allows the Player to access either, or do I do more than just select such sort.

You can see from these questions that I am trying to understand the mechanics of what is actually happening and where, in terms of what happens, how to make it happen, and where to see it happen. I'm sure it's simple once understood, but at this point not.

[evasv]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

garym & mville has already pointed you in the right direction, but here comes an additional angle.

Further, I don't get what's going on here. What is the purpose of inputting composer in two different ways, if I only want to use it in one way or the other.

/.../

This whole concept escapes me.

I think I need to get this kind of understanding nailed down before I do much ripping.

If you only want to browse/search/play in one way, let's say "Gustav Mahler", then COMPOSER is all you need. You don't have to use COMPOSERSORT in that case.

And that goes for all sort tags; they are all optional. Some use them and some don't.


If you tag the COMPOSER as "Gustav Mahler", compare these listings in alphabetical order below and decide what you prefer:

without COMPOSERSORT:

Gustav Mahler
Igor Stravinsky
Jean Sibelius
Johann Sebastian Bach
Ludwig van Beethoven
Richard Strauss
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart


with COMPOSERSORT:

Bach, Johann Sebastian
Beethoven, Ludwig van
Mahler, Gustav
Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus
Sibelius, Jean
Strauss, Richard
Stravinsky, Igor


As an alternative, you could tag the COMPOSER as "Mahler, Gustav" to negate the need for COMPOSERSORT, but that approach is uncommon, I think.

Also keep in mind that music servers usually support sort tags, but portable players may or may not.

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I guess I'm blind; I don't see "Settings."

If you have the latest dBpoweramp Music Converter R16.3, then:
CD Ripper >> Menu >> CD Ripper Options

Further, I don't get what's going on here. What is the purpose of inputting composer in two different ways, if I only want to use it in one way or the other.

Read this: Sorting last name, first name from First name last name

Also, where do I find the COMPOSERSORT field? I only see a COMPOSER field at the top of my screen.

Try the Tags panel (CD Ripper main window, bottom centre).

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Are there fields other than Composer that are sort frields? If so, what are they?

dBpoweramp currently supports the following sort tags:
Artist Sort
Album Artist Sort
Album Sort
ComposerSort
ConductorSort
SoloistsSort

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

THIS POST WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED, BY MISTAKE, IN THE "RE: RIPPING LEVEL QUESTION (HELP?)" THREAD. I'M REPOSTING IT HERE WHERE IT BELONGS SO AS NOT TO CONTAMINATE THINGS.

I hope everyone had a happy holiday, I did.

I've been away for a while, but I'm now I'm getting back to the job. I think the mistake I made in the beginning was that I was trying to understand dbpoweramp, particularly the naming string. At this point all I want to do I get on with it.

I believe I've come around to garym's view for the non-classical naming string and will try ripping accordingly (using the one he suggested for leading off with Genre, which I prefer).

From Garym *70
[IFCOMP]Compilations\[genre]\[album] [IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][genre]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][]

I've read through the forum posts for the third time and cataloged the various naming strings suggested. They vary somewhat, including some embellishments. Here are the two other strings suggested.

From Ripping Level Questions (help?) &*8211; Monsterjazzlick Post *43
[IFCOMP]Compilations\[album][IFMULTI]\Disc [disc][]\[track]-[title]-[artist][][IF!COMP][IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI]\Disc [disc][]\[track]-[title][]

From Set-Up for Ripping -- schmidj Post *34
[IFVALUE]album artist,[MAXLENGTH]25,[album artist][],[IFCOMP]Various Artists[][IF!COMP][MAXLENGTH]25,[artist][][][] - [album]\[track] - [MAXLENGTH]25,[artist][] - [MAXLENGTH]40,[title][]

It seems desirable to me to use a Naming string that handles Compilations and also limits the length of certain fields to prevent overruns (as well as begins with Genre). Putting that all together, what would be recommended?

As I proceed here are some additional questions:

1) What would be the Naming string for classical music that follows Genre with Composer and is otherwise comparable? I know garym and others have said that they don't do much classical and have indicate that they have not settled on a desired string, but I do need one that will do that job.

2) I post *57 Schmij suggested changing WMP to eliminate default options that changes metadata. That sounds like an excellent idea but I don't see how to do it. Internet instructions start with the WMP Tools pull down menu. I don't see Tool at all; can you help me?

Also, garym (post *84) suggested I turn off WMP auto update of tags/artwork? Likewise, I don't see "tools" at top of WMP screen.

3) When I set up Foobar2000 I see the list of my music files on the left pane, but only a single CD is listed. when I click on it I get:

Playback error:
Unable to open item for playback (Object not found):
"C:\Users\Donald\Music\Net\Test\Jazz\Woody Herman\This is Jazz, Vol. 24\01 - Woodchopper's Ball .flac"

When I click the Playback button, nothing happens
Also, I did nothing to select the Woody Herman CD in the first place, ; it just appeared.

What's going on?

4) Oggy, on post *58, item 1 regarding foobar you suggest going to "browse." I don't find "browse." I'm on a PC, not an Android. Is that the difference? If so, how do I proceed?

5) Oggy, in post *163 you say that garym mentions he doesn't embed art on each track. That sounds good to me; one cover art should be sufficient for an album. However, I didn't know one could attach cover art to each track. What is this all about? What is the setting to choose either way? Is there a default?

Also you say: "Note, if you want Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg, &*8230;. you need to uncheck both Disable Tag Writing AND Album Art, as per screenshot below, and set the appropriate, Write to [output folder]." Specifically, what are: Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg? What should one do here?

6) The Naming string field and Profile field seem to not be connected (I can set either to its own selection). I thought that Profile was the name given to a particular naming string and was used as a quick way to call up a given naming string. There must be something I don't understand.

Happy New Year all.
dbarnby

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, garym:

I guess I'm blind; I don't see "Settings."

Further, I don't get what's going on here. What is the purpose of inputting composer in two different ways, if I only want to use it in one way or the other.

Also, where do I find the COMPOSERSORT field? I only see a COMPOSER field at the top of my screen.

This whole concept escapes me.

I think I need to get this kind of understanding nailed down before I do much ripping.

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, Oggy:

Re: Sort tags (Post @163). From your explanation I take it that the "sort" command simply reverses the order of whatever is entered in the field and puts a comma between. Is that correct?

If I want Mahler, Gustav I use the sort command then enter the composer's name in standard order, i.e. Gustav Mahler. Is that correct?

Are there fields other than Composer that are sort frields? If so, what are they?

Thank you,
Don

No, you manually enter what you want in the SORT tag. So you would put Gustav Mahler in the COMPOSER tag and you would put "Mahler, Gustav" in the COMPOSERSORT tag. In CD Ripper, click Settings, CD RIPPER OPTIONS, Tags & Filenames, then "meta data and ID tags" (options button next to this item). Then you'll see a list of all the tag items and some are ticked (the ones you want) and some are not ticked (the ones you don't want). You can see the various sort tags there. I recall ARTISTSORT, COMPOSERSORT, ALBUMARTISTSORT, ALBUMSORT. May be others.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, Oggy:

Re: Sort tags (Post @163). From your explanation I take it that the "sort" command simply reverses the order of whatever is entered in the field and puts a comma between. Is that correct?

If I want Mahler, Gustav I use the sort command then enter the composer's name in standard order, i.e. Gustav Mahler. Is that correct?

Are there fields other than Composer that are sort frields? If so, what are they?

Thank you,
Don

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I also agree. Even in documentation of Vorbis comments there is use of "tag" as a complement to "field":

https://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html -> "We will generally collect the more useful tags here to help with standardization."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorbis_comment -> "Any tag name is allowed, and there is no format that the data values must be in."

Excellent point.

[evasv]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I think moving forward we should all agree that when one talks about "tags" in a file (e.g. meaning tag fields like ARTIST, ALBUM) that it is perfectly ok to interchangeably use "field" or "tag". That is, this is the culture on this and almost all other forums and this ship has sailed. It would take to long to "fix" the internet!

I also agree. Even in documentation of Vorbis comments there is use of "tag" as a complement to "field":

https://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html -> "We will generally collect the more useful tags here to help with standardization."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorbis_comment -> "Any tag name is allowed, and there is no format that the data values must be in."

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I think moving forward we should all agree that when one talks about "tags" in a file (e.g. meaning tag fields like ARTIST, ALBUM) that it is perfectly ok to interchangeably use "field" or "tag". That is, this is the culture on this and almost all other forums and this ship has sailed. It would take to long to "fix" the internet!

Agreed. I think it is simpler and more convenient to talk of tags, rather than metadata containers, fields etc.

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

The 12 text boxes (and 1 tick box) you refer to, are just a few often used tags, conveniently displayed at the top of the main CD Ripper window. Some of my flac files hold well over 50 tags.

over 50 tag fields. Fixed that for you. (kidding of course)

p.s. I think moving forward we should all agree that when one talks about "tags" in a file (e.g. meaning tag fields like ARTIST, ALBUM) that it is perfectly ok to interchangeably use "field" or "tag". That is, this is the culture on this and almost all other forums and this ship has sailed. It would take to long to "fix" the internet!

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Further, there seems to be a tendency to use the word "tag" loosely to mean what garym calls "field," and what I have called "tag-group." Just today, in fact, evasv has posted (*172) "As I see it: Composer is a tag and Beethoven is a value." This view is the reverse of the perspective held by garym and mville and me. The truth is, I think, that for lack of a clear definition there are lots of users with different points of view. It matters not at all who's "right" or "wrong"; all that matters is that we all get on the same page.

I believe it is you that is not on the same page.

What I said was:
There are simply Tags (some of which have corresponding sort tags), which contain data

which is essentially the same as what evasv posted. Where evasv states value, I state data (or data value).

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Perhaps I've missed it but I've never seen any official term relating to these 8 to 12 categories. Does anyone know of such? Much confusion can be eliminated by establishing one.

To my way of thinking, "tag" is a word (or words) assigned to a CD or piece or music by the user, and therefore tag is the words he writes in the text box, while the tag category (or field, or tag-group, or dimension, or whatever the term is) is the name shown on the dbpa main screen for the 8 or 12 text boxes; these names constitute a fixed group and they are properties of the dbpa software. I think the main point is that there seems to be no accepted term to use for this collection of 8 or 12 categories (genre, year, disc, comment, album artist, album, artist, composer, work, movement number, movement count, movement name). Should it be field, or tag-group, or dimension, or what?

The 12 text boxes (and 1 tick box) you refer to, are just a few often used tags, conveniently displayed at the top of the main CD Ripper window. Some of my flac files hold well over 50 tags.

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

To some extent this all turns into a philosophical discussion of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". 99.9% of digital music users want to have files that are usable. This typically means that the files contain some sort of useful metadata that their audio libraries/players can access. I personally want to have ALBUM, ARTIST, TRACK, TRACK NUMBER, DISK NUMBER, GENRE, COMPOSER, YEAR, COMPILATION, ALBUM ARTIST and maybe a couple of other tag fields. I'm most happy when the databases dbpa accesses automatically obtains this info, but if not, I'll enter it manually. But I set all this up years ago as part of my ripping/tagging process and never gave it much thought afterwards.* Maybe I'm just too simple minded, but I don't see the need for the theoretical underpinnings of tagging as a philosophical exercise.

*with the exception that I'm always rethinking GENRE and ALBUM ARTIST and use of multi-values for certain fields.