Set-Up for Ripping

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

dbarnby, mville's two recent long posts are detailed and useful answers to your current question. I can't think of any way to make the answer any clearer. My advice is to re-read mville's answers again very carefully (multiple times if necessary).

And as Oggy points out, what shows up in a PLAYER display (e.g., your foobar2000 setup) is based on the tags. What shows up in windows file explorer is based on file names and directory names (not tags).

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

It has been implied (to my thinking) that there is a place one inserts a value (or text) into a sort tag

Sort tags are to be treated just like any other tag. All tags hold a data value (text for most tags but in the case of album art, a picture). The tag name e.g. Artist, describes the tag, whereas Pink Floyd would be the data contained in the tag.

In CD Ripper, the only place to manually add and populate the ComposerSort tag is in the Tag Panel, bottom centre of the CD Ripper main window.

Mville *225 wrote: "&*8230; this means that IF the Composer Sort tag is populated&*8230;"
Mville *227 wrote: " So, do you understand that this simply means that if the Composer Sort tag is populated with data&*8230;."

To my thinking "being populated" means containing an inserted value, and I know of no place where a value can be inserted into a composer sort tag.

Being Populated or Populating tags is simply IT parlance and (in these forums) refers to entering data into a tag. It is analogous to populating databases i.e. entering data into database fields.

So, if a tag is populated, that means it contains a data value e.g. the Artist tag might be populated with Pink Floyd.

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

What I'm striving to understand is pretty straight forward:

1) What you put in the tag value text boxes
2) Where you put it in
3) What ends up where at the end of the day
4) What the four tag places are used for

What is it about my post no. 232, that you do not understand?

1. You put details about the CD album and CD tracks in the tags e.g.:




2. I have already explained the 3 places where you enter data into the tags, in post no. 232. You do not enter data under the green Menu icon Write ID Tags section. The green Menu icon is for CD Ripper software options and settings.

3. At the end of the day, as you rip the CD, any tags that contain data and have the Write ID Tag option ticked (under the green Menu icon), will be written into the reserved, Tag (metadata) section of your audio files. Software is able to read the tags from this section of the audio file and display the data in say, your audio player software. These tags can also be edited at a later date, by tag editing software.

4. I have already explained the 4 tag places, in post no. 232. 3 places are for tag reviewing, editing and adding tag data, 1 place is a CD Ripper software option, telling the software what tags to write (and not write, as some users may not want to write certain tags) to the audio files.

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi Oggy,

"Who's on first."

Let me take this piece at a time.

Is it correct that the words, AND THE SEQUENCE OF THE WORDS that appear in the File Explorer are always exactly verbatim the words typed in the composer field at the top of the page in the same order whatever that is (Gustav Mahler or Mahler, Gustav)?

Don

Hi Don,

The easy answer is, yes, as it looks like you asked a very simple question, BUT, the answer is: it depends on what naming string you use and how players deal with Composer.

You have asked several times how will Gustav Mahler look in Windows File Explorer, IF you fill populate Composer with Gustav Mahler.

IF you use a naming string which has Genre / Composer as the first folders, IF you have Genre as Classical, in File Explorer, the folder will show as Classical, (with Gustav Mahler sub-folder).

(As far as I know, very few players display Composers in the same way they display Artists [I believe more recent versions of iTunes does, which is why dBpoweramp now supports this], so will ignore Composer and display by Artist.)

Can anyone who uses Composer in the naming string confirm this, please?

If the above is the case, then Artist (and if supported, Album Artist), have great significance.

The next sub-folder will be Artist, so depending on the above, if you populate Artist with Gustav Mahler, then, yes, the player will display Gustav Mahler.
If you don't add Artist Sort, Gustav Mahler will display as Gustav Mahler, but in Gs, and if you add the Artist Sort, tag, Mahler, Gustav, Gustav Mahler will display as Gustav Mahler, but in Ms. The sort tags do not change what is displayed in File Explorer.

If my assumption is correct, if you populated Artist with say, Kathleen Ferrier, then it would display as Kathleen Ferrier and not Gustav Mahler. I think this is essential to clarify.

I wish, along with countless Classical music fans, that all players coped with Classical music tagging better, but unfortunately most work along the lines Artist / Album / Track, which suits popular music very well. Sadly there are no standards, and many players still do not support Album Artist, either.

I really wish that I could have given a simple , yes!

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

What I'm striving to understand is pretty straight forward:

1) What you put in the tag value text boxes
2) Where you put it in
3) What ends up where at the end of the day
4) What the four tag places are used for

a) Text boxes at top
b) Tag shaped Icon at top
c) Tag panel at bottom Left/Center
d) Green Bar Icon at top

Lets take this piece at a time. What follows may be a little tricky to follow, but if someone would carefully wend their way through it systematically, point for point, and give me a yea or nay at each point, that should go a long way toward clarification, or (if nay) pointing to the area of confusion.

Here's what I understand or have questions about (this example uses composer):

1) What is put in (the tag value) is the composer's name (Gustav Mahler)

2) Where it's put it in: There are only two possible places I'm aware of where a tag value (text) can be entered:

-- the text box called "composer" at top of page, (a), and
-- in the text box under the tag shaped icon (review metadata) at upper left (b).
(These two locations appear to be linked/synced.)

2 (continued) It has been implied (to my thinking) that there is a place one inserts a value (or text) into a sort tag:

Mville *225 wrote: "… this means that IF the Composer Sort tag is populated…"
Mville *227 wrote: " So, do you understand that this simply means that if the Composer Sort tag is populated with data…."

To my thinking "being populated" means containing an inserted value, and I know of no place where a value can be inserted into a composer sort tag. To my understanding, all one can do with a sort tag is select it (or "turn it on" – at the locations 4c and/or 4d). Do I have this right or wrong?

3. After inserting values into one of the two (linked) places (4a and 4b) where that can occur as in (2) above, then there are only two places that such input "ends up" or which are influenced by it: The File Explorer and the Player listing.

The File Explorer is influenced ONLY by the value that in entered into the text boxes at the top (item 4a above).

The Player listing is influenced by BOTH the value entered into the text boxes at the top (4a) which provides the text, and also by the "sort" tag selection in 4c or 4d, to cause the listing to be alphabetized.

However, I am unclear whether the "sort" selection is properly made under the Tag panel (4c) or the Green Bar Icon (4d).

4) I still don't have a good gut feel for why tags are dealt with in four locations. What is the best way to understand and use this fact?

5) One other confusion for me is in post *232 which states that the green icon (4d) simply tells the ripper what to write to audio files. This sounds like it's referring to the PC files rather than the Player listings. If a sort tag is indicated in the green icon wouldn't that refer to an influence on the Player not the File Explorer?

I appreciate everyone's help,
dbarnby

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Actually that could happen for certain players if you deliberately put "Floyd, Pink" in artistsort.

Obviously, but the implication earlier was different i.e. that it was software that was reversing first name and last name and not what the user enters in the tags.

Again, they would display the contents of the tag.

Yes, software simply displays what is contained in the tags.

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

What is the preferred place to set the tags, the green icon or the tag panel at the bottom?

No, I'm afraid you still have not understood.

The green icon at the top of the CD Ripper main window is the menu icon. If you point at the green icon, you get a tooltip appear, saying Menu.

If you go to:
Menu (green icon) >> CD Ripper Options >> Tag & Filenames : Meta Data & ID Tag : Options >> Write ID Tags

you will see a long list of tags. This is simply a list of tags that when ticked, tell CD Ripper which tags to write to your audio files. These tags will still need to contain data or they are not written to your audio files. Populating the tags with data IS NOT accomplished here.

So, you (the user), still needs to enter data into these tags (n.b. empty tags are not written to the audio file).

This can be accomplished in 3 areas of CD Ripper:
1. Using the Review Metadata window, opened by clicking the Review Metadata icon (the label icon to the left of the menu icon). Tag data is retrieved from the online metadata databases, which can be reviewed and edited here.

2. Using the common tag text boxes at the top of the main CD Ripper window. These text boxes allow you to edit tag data.

3. Using the Tag panel, bottom centre of the main CD Ripper window. Here, you can add new tags and edit existing tags.

Regarding tags and their use in the Naming string and sort tags, you still seem very confused. I have tried my best to explain their use but the pennies haven't dropped as yet. Try googling sort tags, for more explanations of their use.

[evasv]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

But I don't see any mention of sort tags reversing first and last name.

There is no actual statement in the thread, but I gave an example which had "reversed names" for the composers - so I can understand why dbarnby raised the question. While it's not technically correct to say that composersort reverses first and last name, it is something that you sometimes (depending on the player) can achieve. This is what I think dbarnby wanted to know, among other things.

Player software has NO concept of first name or last name,

Correct.

so how does it possibly decide what to reverse?

It doesn't decide, it displays the content of the sort tag. The effect of the tag could be a reverse.

But this only happens for players that not only sort by, but also displays, the sort tag in the listing.

So, are you suggesting that certain players will display Pink Floyd as Floyd, Pink?

Actually that could happen for certain players if you deliberately put "Floyd, Pink" in artistsort. Again, they would display the contents of the tag.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Follow-up for mville.

One more question I left off the last post:

What is the preferred place to set the tags, the green icon or the tag panel at the bottom?

Why?

Don

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Mville, I'm still not sure I've got it. Is this right? Here's what I now think I get -- tell me if I'm wrong.

1) I put "Gustav Mahler" into the text box at the top of the screen. (those very words show up in file exploerer and take an alphabetized position based on "G.")

I go to green icon at top, follow the clicks to the options (as above) and mark the check box next to Composer sort. This has two results:

a) allow all composers to be seen in alphabetical order IN THE PLAYER, and presented JUST as I've written them in the text box (in this case "Gustav Mahler") alphabetized UNDER "G." -- however, IF I had written "Mahler, Gustav" in the text box to begin with they would be sorten under "M" in the Player.

b) make NO change in the tag list at the bottom.

2) If the above is true, then I don't really understand what the Tag panel at the bottom accomplishes. You say "You can use the Tag panel to check all the tags you require, make any necessary additions and edits, before ripping." But I thought that's what I just did under the green icon. You see my quandary?
Furthermore, if the green icon listing and the tag panel at the bottom are not linked, how can the tag panel at the bottom make additions (I thought that was done under the green icon)?

Don

Slowly, I think I may make progress.
Don

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Item 2) post *223
Microsoft tells me WMP is discontinued as of end of this yr. So I guess this is moot.
Don

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I went to: Green bar idon > CD Ripper options > Tags & Filenames, Metadata & Tags > Options (double click) > then I clicked on the Composer sort ck box.

Yes. So, do you understand that this simply means that if the ComposerSort tag is populated with data, it will be written to the audio file, that is all. It does not add the ComposerSort tag to the Tag panel at the bottom?

You can use the Tag panel to check all the tags you require, make any necessary additions and edits, before ripping.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi mville,

Did my reply come through or get deleted. Anyway, her it is:

I went to: Green bar idon > CD Ripper options > Tags & Filenames, Metadata & Tags > Options (double click) > then I clicked on the Composer sort ck box.

Don

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I just ran an experiment. I selected Composer sort in the green bar icon at the top, then looked for it in the Tag list at the bottom. It wasn't there. I believe you indicated that these two were linked. What am I missing?

I assume you mean you did the following:
Go to CD Ripper >> Menu (green bar icon) >> CD Ripper Options >> Meta Data & ID Tag >> Write ID Tag
and ticked ComposerSort?

If yes, this means that IF the ComposerSort tag is populated, it will be written to the audio file.

The tag panel at the bottom allows you to add/edit the ComposerSort tag or any other tag, as you desire.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi garym,

I just ran an experiment. I selected Composer sort in the green bar icon at the top, then looked for it in the Tag list at the bottom. It wasn't there. I believe you indicated that these two were linked. What am I missing?

What is the purpose of this redundancy?

Don