Set-Up for Ripping

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

And lastly, wouldn't you die without Mahler?

I had to edit this from my previous post, as I'd exceeded the number of attachments. So here it is!



I've used Gustav Mahler as the name, but being next to Maker, used the sort tag, to display in Ms. Whereas I capitalise all first letters in popular music, to give a consistent look,except stylised names, I use lower case for Classical, as I prefer the look. It is personal libraries we are building, so there will always be personal preferences. This also partly explains the different metadata from the different providers.

Don, I hope these show how players display and how your folders show in Windows, are completely different!

I know that my friends only care how they work on their player and app.

Good luck,

Oggy

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi Don,

As I learnt from his RE: Ripping Level Question (help?) thread, a picture really can paint a thousand words. So I'll post a few, with explanations, that will hopefully clarify some issues.

These are screenshots, from my Android tablet, from which I run the app for my player. The files are ripped directly to a Linux, Synology NAS, from a Windows laptop.

The first shows the folders on my NAS, in alphabetical order, notice how Tasmin Archer and The Beatles, are both in Ts. In Windows File Explorer, these would display as a list, the folder named from how I tagged Artist. The folder tree is Artist, Album, Disc(s). I would always put Artist before Albums.

Once ripped, you could rename these folders to anything you wanted, without changing how they display on a player. This is partly why a number of people don't worry what order they are in Windows File Explorer, you can sort and disply them in a totally different order, on your player.See below for how the albums are not displayed, alphabetically.



The second, is a screenshot from my players app, with Artist / Album overlay. This shows my Beatles albums, Artist name, The Beatles, BUT, because I use Artist Sort tags, these are displayed in Bs.

This is how the sort tags work on my player.

Other points of interest from this screen, The Beatles (White Album), is a double CD, but because I tagged it as The Beatles, Disc 1/2 and The Beatles, Disc 2/2, on the player, it shows as one, but plays continuously.

I've set the app up to display by Artist, Album and date, and as I tag the albums with the original release year (with a couple of exceptions!), my albums are displayed by artist, in mostly! chronological order. Another use of sort tags when displayed, because in Windows File Explorer, they are displayed alphabetically. This is purely my preference of how I want to display the albums, and how the player and app works. Different players and aps, work differently.

Other things to note, because some of the albums have three versions, the original CD releases, the Remasters and the Monos, to stop them all going into one folder, they have unique album names.

The Beatles fans, will notice that the chronological order is not 100% accurate, as Yellow Submarine, was released before Abbey Road, but because they both had the same 1969 release date, and alphabetically Abbey Road comes before Yellow Submarine, these are swapped. I also cheated on Starclub 1962, by tagging the year as 1961; choices!





This screenshot clearly shows Ludwig van Beethoven and Natasha, displayed in Bs. The Beethoven symphonies were ripped (CD layer) from a hybrid SACD box set, and as you can see, I have split the Symphonies 1 and 2 disc into two , giving Symphony No. 1 and Symphony No. 2. I renamed, ripped just the first symphony, and for the second, renamed and used number offset (-4). You may notice I used the opus numbers, I will edit these, as for me, they are not important in the name. Choices!

The Tales From The Brothers Gibb, is actually a four CD set, in 4 chapters. I used covers 1-4 for the matching discs. I'm sure I wasn't OCD, before starting a digital library!

It also has tracks by individual Gibb Brothers, so the artist was say, Robin Gibb, but I didn't want this in Cs under Compilations, so used Album Artist, Bee Gees. Unfortunately, not all players handle Album Artist, so the player defines which sort tags you can use.




The Beethoven symphonies, for the year, I chose date first performed! Again using a tag for display purposes.




The last shot shows how I try and keep the filenames, album name and track name short. I really wasn't sure how to name and tag Classical CDs, but couldn't delay ripping them any longer!

I ended up using exactly the same naming string as I used for Popular music. This is completely open to any better solutions, and remains a work in progress, but they display how and where I want; more importantly I can play them! So, I simply used Artist Gustav Mahler, Artist Sort Mahler. I simply added tags for Orchestra, Conductor and Soloists.

Most of this information is on the cover, so I'll end where I started. A picture paints a thousand words.

[evasv]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

no one has ever mentioned that sort tags reverse first and last name.

Actually, I did in post 192. I may have added to the confusion, but I described what I saw in my testing of sort tags. You stated that my composersort listing was incorrect, and I can only assume that you are right about this - I wouldn't know what is considered standard in this case. Nevertheless, some (few?) players do reverse first and last name, correct or not.

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I remain a bit more confused about the composersort tags, since two answers have been given as to what they do. Do they
a) reverse the first and last name, i.e. Gustav Mahler becomes Maler, Gustave, or
b) put the composers in alphabetical order?
Once I clear on that, I can get back to my original sort questions.

b) put the composers in alphabetical order.

I do not see two different answers in this thread and no one has ever mentioned that sort tags reverse first and last name. The sort tag simply tells software how to sort the corresponding display tag.

So, if you populate the Composer tag with Gustav Mahler, with no corresponding sort tag, this composer is sorted in server/player listings under G. But, if you want to sort this composer, so in server/player listings it appears under M, you would populate the corresponding sort tag i.e Composer Sort, with text that sorts it so e.g. Mahler, Gustav.

Likewise, if you populate the Artist tag with The Jesus and Mary Chain and the Artist Sort is not populated, the artist appears under T. However, if you populate the Artist Sort with Jesus and Mary Chain, The, then the artist will appear under J.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Today was a good day for learning; thanks to all (Oggy, garym, mville, GaryF45, evasv).

1) I remain a bit more confused about the composersort tags, since two answers have been given as to what they do. Do they
a) reverse the first and last name, i.e. Gustav Mahler becomes Maler, Gustave, or
b) put the composers in alphabetical order?
Once I clear on that, I can get back to my original sort questions.

2) The issue of Music Converter came up only in teaching me how to learn my dbpa version. Since I'm not doing the converter it is irrelevant to this discussion, and of course, as mville mentioned, I have not read all about it.

3) Thanks garym, for the Naming string with max length.

Regarding the string I want for classical, I basically want the same as non-classical BUT with composer inserted between genera and artist so that my two naming strings would be:
classical: genera > composer > album > artist > disc,
non-classical would be: genera > album > artist > disc.
Does this appear practical?

4) Garym, I have indeed been clicking around dbpoweramp, and in fact that is what has led me to dig deeper into the sort tag issues.
Those sort tag issues still need further understanding but first I need to get clear on my question 1) above.

5) Oggy, I have not yet bought my player; I'm planning to first get the ripping working on foobar2000 as has been suggested by many on this forum.
To that end I'm trying to get my understanding complete on how to set up tags, and sort tags, and naming string, to get it working with foobar.

Also, to that end I'm hopeful that I can learn about the issues I raised in my post *189, items 2) through 6).

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

1) Somehow, we're not on the same page, Oggy. I see no bullhorn icon, nor do I see "dbPoweramp Control Center" icon at the top left. What I do see is the Rip icon with 4 other icons to its right. I think we must be looking as different pages.

2) The tag fields at the top seem to be a fixed set having text-entry boxes; the ones at the bottom under the Tags tap have no text-entry boxes. Thern I'm guessing that adding more tags at the bottom (like Composer Sort) simply tells the software what to record in the file, i.e. if I type Gustav Mahler at the top under Composer, add Composer Sort to the bottom list, the software will record Gustav Mahler the folder and also Mahler, Gustav, in which case my Player will see both and I can access either of them when making play selections. Do I have that right?

2a) You say " The sort name, is how you wish to display the equivalent name." Please clarify: display it where?

2b) If I understand, you're saying that the presentation in File Explorer draws, precisely/literally, from the Composer field at the top (a la 2C), but the presentation in the player is determined by the Composer entry at the top and by Composer Sort entry at the bottom, that is it sees both Gustav Mahler and Mahler, Gustav. Or, does the Player respond only to the sort tag Mahler, Gustav?

I agree with you that I think about classical music composers by last name: Mahler, Beethoven, etc. Accordingly, I would tend to put last name only in the Composer field at the top. This, I believe would mean editing that box in virtually all cases after the inputs from the internet metadata. It that correct?

Thanks,
dbarnby

Clearly not on the same page! You may not have the icon on your desktop. From your programs, click on dBpoweramp and again on dBpoweramp - this should be a loudspeaker icon, and opens the dBpoweramp Control Center.Top left under dBpoweramp, it should say something like Release 16.3 - this is your software version.

Have you bought your player yet, or are we talking theoretical settings? Originally you mentioned the Bluesound, have you got this, or gone a different route? I was talking about how it displays on the player, or the players app. Not all players software is created equal, so you really need to try to see what tags are supported.

Yes, you could simply use Mahler, Beethoven, or any name you want. It is rare not to edit the metadata with Classical CDs..

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi Oggy & GaryF45:

I did at GaryG45 suggested and find that my dbpa version is 16.2. Should I update? How would that be done?

Don

[GaryG45]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Don,
For 1) When you installed dBpoweramp, there was an option to install an icon for the "dBpoweramp Control Center" or individual icons for CD Ripper, Music Converter, and Batch Converter. From what you have said, you are in CD Ripper because in my version of CD Ripper I have RIP, a red arrow pointing up, two blue circular arrows, an icon that looks like a tag, and a green icon that is the menu. If you are trying to determine the release of dBpoweramp, I'm not aware of a way to do it from CD Ripper. You could go to Windows Control Panel>Programs and Features and search for dBpoweramp. Mine shows Release 16.3.

For 2a) I believe Oggy is saying how your player will display the equivalent name. For example, in my music library the Artist tag for the Beatles is:"The Beatles" and the Artistsort tag is: "Beatles". When I use Sonos for my music player and list the artists, Beatles is displayed and not "The Beatles". Therefore I've concluded that Sonos is using the Artistsort tag. In Foobar2000 the artist is displayed as "The Beatles", so Foobar uses the Artist tag.

I hope this is of some help.
Gary

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

1) Somehow, we're not on the same page, Oggy. I see no bullhorn icon, nor do I see "dbPoweramp Control Center" icon at the top left. What I do see is the Rip icon with 4 other icons to its right. I think we must be looking as different pages.

2) The tag fields at the top seem to be a fixed set having text-entry boxes; the ones at the bottom under the Tags tap have no text-entry boxes. Thern I'm guessing that adding more tags at the bottom (like Composer Sort) simply tells the software what to record in the file, i.e. if I type Gustav Mahler at the top under Composer, add Composer Sort to the bottom list, the software will record Gustav Mahler the folder and also Mahler, Gustav, in which case my Player will see both and I can access either of them when making play selections. Do I have that right?

2a) You say " The sort name, is how you wish to display the equivalent name." Please clarify: display it where?

2b) If I understand, you're saying that the presentation in File Explorer draws, precisely/literally, from the Composer field at the top (a la 2C), but the presentation in the player is determined by the Composer entry at the top and by Composer Sort entry at the bottom, that is it sees both Gustav Mahler and Mahler, Gustav. Or, does the Player respond only to the sort tag Mahler, Gustav?

I agree with you that I think about classical music composers by last name: Mahler, Beethoven, etc. Accordingly, I would tend to put last name only in the Composer field at the top. This, I believe would mean editing that box in virtually all cases after the inputs from the internet metadata. It that correct?

Thanks,
dbarnby

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Here's the dynamic naming string I suggested with the addition of a maximum length control that you mentioned. This gives you what you wanted in terms of genre being the top folder.

[MAXLENGTH]240,[IFCOMP]Compilations\[genre]\[album] [IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][genre]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][][]

With regard to a string for classical, I'm happy to help but you need to let us know exactly how you want the classical music files stored and named. Using a couple of specific examples from your collection is most helpful.

Also, it seems you are still struggling with finding your way around the program itself. I recommend that you click on every single menu item in the program, and sub-menu items just to get a feel for what sort of things are buried in the program settings. You can't break anything.

[evasv]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Actually, this is incorrect. If sort tags are supported correctly, the listings would appear as:

without COMPOSERSORT:
Gustav Mahler
Igor Stravinsky
Jean Sibelius
Johann Sebastian Bach
Ludwig van Beethoven
Richard Strauss
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

with COMPOSERSORT:
Johann Sebastian Bach
Ludwig van Beethoven
Gustav Mahler
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Jean Sibelius
Richard Strauss
Igor Stravinsky

Not so when I laborated with sort tags on my portable (I don't use sort any longer).

You are probably right though that it should show up as you have written it.

Seems my player didn't follow the standard.

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I know nothing about dbpa MUSIC CONVERTER.

As I have stated consistently, you need to read the help: dBpoweramp Music Converter

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

compare these listings in alphabetical order below and decide what you prefer:

without COMPOSERSORT:

Gustav Mahler
Igor Stravinsky
Jean Sibelius
Johann Sebastian Bach
Ludwig van Beethoven
Richard Strauss
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart


with COMPOSERSORT:

Bach, Johann Sebastian
Beethoven, Ludwig van
Mahler, Gustav
Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus
Sibelius, Jean
Strauss, Richard
Stravinsky, Igor

Actually, this is incorrect. If sort tags are supported correctly, the listings would appear as:

without COMPOSERSORT:
Gustav Mahler
Igor Stravinsky
Jean Sibelius
Johann Sebastian Bach
Ludwig van Beethoven
Richard Strauss
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

with COMPOSERSORT:
Johann Sebastian Bach
Ludwig van Beethoven
Gustav Mahler
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Jean Sibelius
Richard Strauss
Igor Stravinsky

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

5) Oggy, in post *163 you say that garym mentions he doesn't embed art on each track. That sounds good to me; one cover art should be sufficient for an album. However, I didn't know one could attach cover art to each track. What is this all about? What is the setting to choose either way? Is there a default?

Also you say: "Note, if you want Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg, &*8230;. you need to uncheck both Disable Tag Writing AND Album Art, as per screenshot below, and set the appropriate, Write to [output folder]." Specifically, what are: Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg? What should one do here?

Hi Don,

In CD Ripper, click on CD Ripper Options

In Tags & Filenames click on Meta Data & ID Tags Options

Will bring up this screen



These are my settings, where I've set both the Album Art maximum pixel and file size, and set it up to add a Folder.jpg.

If you use a naming string such as garym's, then this will automatically add this sized art in a folder for each disc.

If your player works with a Folder.jpg, then it saves space over embedding and makes it far simpler for changing covers in the future.

I suggest you try this on one CD, and see if the cover displays on your player / app.

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, mville:
I'm learning but I still don't have it.

1) I don't know what version of dbpa CD Ripper I have; where do I find that? I know nothing about dbpa MUSIC CONVERTER.

2) At the bottom left of the Ripper screen under the Tags tab I see where I can add tags like Composer Sort to that box right there (not to the fields at the top of the screen). I don't understand the difference between items at the top and in the box at the bottom left or the relationship between them.

3) I see that sort tags reverse first and last names, but I still don't understand how the sort tags are utilized. That is:

a) Where does the sort name show up?

b) does this affect the way names are listed in the file name in the Naming String and Windows File Explorer, or does it affect the way tags appear in my player display when I'm looking to play music?

c) If sort tags are used does that change the way name are presented in BOTH the File Explorer and the Player search display?

d) To employ sort tags, is all I do, make a selection of such in the bottom left box under Tag tap?

e) Is sort tags something I just select or "turn on" (in this case for Composer) which then puts two tags (both composer and composer sort) in the folder which allows the Player to access either, or do I do more than just select such sort.

You can see from these questions that I am trying to understand the mechanics of what is actually happening and where, in terms of what happens, how to make it happen, and where to see it happen. I'm sure it's simple once understood, but at this point not.

Hi Don, and welcome back.

1) If you click on the dBpoweramp Control Center icon, which currently is a loudspeaker, top left, under dBpoweramp, will show you the version you have.

Music Conversion converts your ripped files from one format to another. For example, from FLAC to MP3.

2) The Tags in the top box are common naming settings, the ones displayed when pressing "Tags", are an extension, where you can add, or delete tags, and choose how these tags are displayed."Sort".

a) The sort name, is how you wish to display the equivalent name.

Gustav Mahler on my player, displays as Gustav Mahler, but because I use the sort tag, it shows as Gustav Mahler, but under M.

b) No. In Windows File Explorer, the names are listed numerically, and then alphabetically. These are how your computer displays them, but not your player.If you put Mahler, Gustav and don't use a sort tag, it will display as Mahler, Gustav both on your player, and in Windows File Explorer. This is purely a personal preference, and the sort tags are there to facilitate personal preferences.

c) Sort tags don't affect File Explorer at all, player search, usually type in Mahler, Gustav, will pull up all Mahler and Gustav.

d) Yes!

e) If you select, "turn on" or use sort tags, the folder will be named Gustav Mahler, but sorted under Mahler.

Particularly with Classical composers, most people think of Mahler and Beethoven, and would expect to find Mahler under M and Beethoven under B. It is completely your choice if you would rather use Mahler, Gustav and not need sort tags, or use Gustav Mahler, and to show under M, rather than G, you need the sort tags.

These tags, and if required, sort tags, are what makes it happen.

I personally use sort tags, as in my head, a Library displays by surname, BUT, this is solely personal preference, and someone else may think differently.

Hope this helps clarify matters and aid in your preferences.

Choices!!

Regards,

Oggy