Set-Up for Ripping

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

and here's a picture for you. This is how the album "Low Spark of Highheeled Boys" by the artist Traffic is named in my system. (ignore the 192.168.1.16...part of name...this is because my files are actually on a music server on my network, not attached directly to my PC). But what this picture shows you is that I have the following:

a parent directory called MUSIC. A subdirectory under that called FLAC (so I can keep my lossless flac files in a different location than my lossy (mp3) files). Under this I have an ARTIST subdirectory (and there I have TRAFFIC). Under Traffic, I have the albums I have. One of these is "Low Spark ....". Then to the right you can see the file names themselves, which are simply track number and title. I don't need to have album name or artist name as part of file name because I know this from the subdirectory names.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, all the above is just for me to browse the files and see things. This organization and naming IS NOT USED BY MY PLAYER OR MUSIC SERVER. And I would NOT be using file explorer to navigate and choose music when I want to play something. I have other interfaces that access the music server/player. And the server/player use the TAGS embedded in the files. And of course these tags have the same info on artist, album name, song name, track number, and GENRE, as well as many other tags I have.

Click on the picture here:

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

and you did ask a new question, regarding how you change between two naming approaches in dbpa. Very easy, you give each one a different profile name (e.g., one could be "classical" one could be "pop". See attached picture for where you do this.

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Don, most of your questions have been answered several times, so you should go back and carefully read this entire thread. Somehow, you're not quite getting it. I suspect the problem is you are not trying things, seeing the output, asking about it here to try to get what you want. Respectively, you seem to instead want to theoretically talk about it and you've asked the same questions over and over without seemingly learning anything from all our responses.

Bottom line: There will not be any "white paper" forthcoming from the makers of dbpa, so you need to move forward with reading what is available in help screens, asking here, and then trying things. Specifically:

1. I've suggested you read certain help screens. You've never indicated whether you found them, read them, etc. Have you found and read the detailed help instructions on file naming that I noted?

2. mville (and me and others) are asking for something very specific and simple from you and you've not provided it yet. That is, exactly what you'd like your file names and path to look like FOR A SPECIFIC CD. We don't mean a theoretical discussion. We mean take an actual CD, with real names of artist, album, tracks, etc. and write down what you would like the parent directory, subdirectories, file names, etc. to actually be. And I mean actual WINDOWS format, file explorer path and names. Not the generic "this is how I think about my music" sort of answer you've already provided. Please understand that when you use terms like "music\album\artist\track" this makes no sense from a file name structure example. Each of those backslashes you use represents a new subdirectory in "file name language".

I'd really like you to do this for 6 types of CD.

1. non-classical, single artist, single CD
2. classical, single artist, single CD
3. non classical, various artists, single CD

same as 1,2,3 above, but each CD has at least 2 discs.

Finally, trying to learn what you want for your CD ripping without having any sort of music player to test things with is NOT a good idea. You don't need to buy anything. You can test with a software player on your computer. Use something like foobar2000 as a player on your computer. or Jriver or any number of programs that serve as music players. Even itunes is fine (except it won't deal with FLAC, which I assume you are using???)

http://www.foobar2000.org/getfile/96f36299f41dbf4af71b34e5aec39cfe/foobar2000_v1.3.16.exe

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Don, please read the reply to your post, Strange Results. Short on time now, but quick answer, Disc 1 the artist is entered as Verdi, Disc 2 the artist is entered as Sutherland. You can change, either or both, to be whatever you want them to be.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, mville:

Your post was short and to the point, but you may have put your finger on an important confusion I have. First let me say that my description of what I want (Genus/Album name/Work/Composer/Movement or Act) is not meant to reflect any actual coding of the name for entry into dbpa, but, rather, it simply reflects the sequence of how I tend to think about my music.

I am, indeed, confused about how to properly represent Path, and Name (as well as the dynamics of how Tags behave). If I am able to get explicit answers to each of the following questions I'll be way ahead in this process.

You have suggested that I, "Please clarify what you want the pathname to be (i.e. the folder structure) and what you want the filenames to be?" OK, here are my questions:

Filenames

1) I assume that the filename coding string automatically sets up folders and subfolders, etc. in an indented "tree" format in File Explorer, by virtue of the sequence of the elements it contains (reading left to right). I believe one of the participants in this thread indicated that such indentation points are specified by the "/" symbol. Do I understand this correctly?

Nowhere have I seen an explanation of how to code the naming string; a number of helpful participants have suggested naming strings that may meet my need, however I'm completely at sea if I want to alter it or do something different.

Bottom line, it would be helpful to me to know, definitively, that the naming string sets up and accomplishes only one thing: Automatically establishing the file-folder format that I see in File Explorer, and does nothing else. That has been strongly implied by much of what I've read on this forum, but never explicitly and definitively said. It is true? Do I have at least this much right?

2) If I have two naming protocols, one for classical and one for non, do I need to select the correct one (as appropriate) for each CD I rip, or is there a way to use one protocol for both types of music? What are the mechanics of this?




File Path

3) Regarding file path: I believe Path to be the same as ordinarily experienced in Windows and that it directs where a music file goes in File Explorer. Is that correct?

Tags

4) I'm still a bit unsure about Tags as I'll explain:

[First let me confess something, While I do have dBpoweramp, I do not yet have a player or network setup, and therefore am unable to see results on-screen as presented by the player. I expect to be using a Bluesound player]

Do the players simply display the file information as a "flat" file (table) with a column headings for each tag?

If so, does clicking on the column heading result in ordering the items in either ascending or descending order for that tag?

OR

Does the process work by a sequence of filter selections, e.g. clicking on a primary category would reduce the music list to only those items that pass that criterion/filter, then a click on another tag would reduce the list further to only those that match both that second tag (as well as the first tag), etc. until I have a final list to choose from for listening?

OR EVEN BETTER

Do I set up all the filter criteria at the outset, with the player then presenting me with the final list that meets all those criteria?

5) Various participants in the forum have indicated that tags need not be used literally but can be used to represent some other dimension of the music, e.g. the Album field might be used to hold, say, Composers. How is that fact implemented is setting up the ripper?

6) What is the relationship between default tags that the ripper takes from the CD (and perhaps derives from the internet), and the actual way a user customizes them? I'm pretty confused on this point.

Other

7) What is meant by "profile" in the box at the lower left of the ripper?

8) I ran a test today, ripping the two disks of Rigoletto with Filename set as suggested. In File Explorer (in a folder called Classical) this put a separate folder for each disk (disc 1 was called "Guiseppi Verdi" and disc 2 was called "Joan Sutherland" That's pretty confusing; why would I get different names?

Also, how do I get the two discs of Rigoletto to show up as a single file in Windows Explorer, and how do I get them (it) to show the name of the work (Rigoletto)?

Will they show up as a single item in the Player listing?

I will be miles ahead if I can understand each of these issues in detail.

Thank you for your kind assistance.
Don

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

The structure I have in mind is: For Classical:
Genus/Album name/Work/Composer/Movement or Act

and in those same slots for non-classical I would put:
Genus/Album name/Song/Artist/Track no.

Does this make sense to you?

No, it makes no sense at all.

Please clarify what you want the pathname to be (i.e. the folder structure) and what you want the filenames to be?

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

yep, I really suggest you paste this into naming string (which has Genre as upper level directory) and then try to rip a single CD (single artist), a various artist CD (compilation), and then one of each of those where there are at least two CDs in the album. Then see how you like the output.

[IFCOMP]Compilations\[genre]\[album] [IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][genre]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][]

p.s. I also highly recommend that in the Metadata and Tag ripping options you set tracks to pad to two digits (01, 02, 03, instead of 1, 2, 3). This will make sure that tracks in your file structures list from 01 to X, rather than 1,10,11,12,2,3, etc.

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi Schmidj, thanks so much for all your help. I, too, am a retired engineer, however a chemical one, not software. Glad to hear that Spoon can be open to hearing new ideas. I think Spoon must be a pretty bright guy and it would be a piece of cake for him to put together a white paper on 1) guidelines for coding the file name string, and 2) the relationship between tags and names and the uses of each. That would help neophytes like me a great deal and save himself having to answer a lot of questions. Oh well, maybe it's job security the way it is.

My thoughts are beginning to coalesce around a naming and tagging structure that I think will work for me; I think it's even simpler than yours. There is still a lot I don't know about this whole process, but I do agree with you that now it's time for me to experiment. One reason I haven't done more experimenting so far is because the first 2-disk work I ripper "Rigoletto," turned out weird, and I haven't yet received any answer to the post I entered regarding that. It was called: Strange Result and was posted on 7/8/17. If you have any thoughts on that please let me know.

The structure I have in mind is: For Classical:
Genus/Album name/Work/Composer/Movement or Act

and in those same slots for non-classical I would put:
Genus/Album name/Song/Artist/Track no.

Does this make sense to you? (other than the fact that people universally seem to say NOT to lead off with Genus)

Truly, I welcome your comments.
Don

Hi Don,

Have you got constant results in your Verdi set yet? When I was experimenting with naming, and correcting album / artist named, I ripped just the one, shortest track, to save time, before deleting dozens of folders which were inconsistent. It didn't take long to realise the importance of the 6 'Ps', copy and paste was far more accurate and quicker than my typing! You want a double album, to be played back easily, as a double album.

Have you tried garym's naming scheme yet? It works very well! Whether you use Genre or not, Artist/Album/ Track No. is the basis of most successful, and well organised music libraries. I don't personally know anyone, who doesn't use Artist, with that artists Albums, in sub-folders.

Genre is very personal, depending on the make up of your collection. One person's Reggae, is anothers, Roots, Rock Steady, Ska, Dancehall, Lovers etc. Or, anothers Pop or Rock!

Try two albums by one artist, a double album, and a compilation album, and see how they turn out.

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

One reason I haven't done more experimenting so far is because the first 2-disk work I ripper "Rigoletto," turned out weird, and I haven't yet received any answer to the post I entered regarding that. It was called: Strange Result and was posted on 7/8/17. If you have any thoughts on that please let me know.

You now have a clear answer on that thread. Look at the thread and see the answer Oggy posted.
p.s. If I gave up on trial and error learning after an initial bad outcome, I wouldn't know how to ride a bike, drive a car, do algebra or calculus, fry an egg, not to mention, create a digital library of music and a home music server and networked player system.

The structure I have in mind is: For Classical:
Genus/Album name/Work/Composer/Movement or Act

and in those same slots for non-classical I would put:
Genus/Album name/Song/Artist/Track no.

Does this make sense to you? (other than the fact that people universally seem to say NOT to lead off with Genus)

I don't have an issue with GENRE as file name (parent directories), but "Genus/Album name/Song/Artist/Track no." makes no sense at all to me. You want every song in an album to be in a separate subdirectory? That seems quite odd. And you seem to always want the Album to be the upper level directory with artists underneath. Why not a subdirectory of ARTIST, then all that Artist's albums underneath that subdirectory. With physical albums on a shelf (which I still have 100s), I have them organized alphabetically by ARTIST, with all the albums of that artist together. I wouldn't be able to find anything if I had all my albums alphabetized by Album title. Even if separated out by Genre (which in fact I do for physical albums.....all Jazz together, all classical together).

Maybe it's a matter of communication. Do you understand that when you have a "/" or "" in your example you are saying that creates a separate sub directory.

My organization is pretty simple:

single artist, single disk
c:\music\Artist\Album\track no - track name.flac

single artist, mulit disk
c:\music\Artist\Album\Disk 1\track no - track name.flac
...............................\Disk 2\track no - track name.flac

various artist, single disk
c:\music\Compilations\Album\track no - track name - artist name.flac

various artist, multi disk
c:\music\Compilations\Album\Disk 1\track no - track name - artist name.flac
..........................................\Disk 2\track no - track name - artist name.flac

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi Schmidj, thanks so much for all your help. I, too, am a retired engineer, however a chemical one, not software. Glad to hear that Spoon can be open to hearing new ideas. I think Spoon must be a pretty bright guy and it would be a piece of cake for him to put together a white paper on 1) guidelines for coding the file name string, and 2) the relationship between tags and names and the uses of each. That would help neophytes like me a great deal and save himself having to answer a lot of questions. Oh well, maybe it's job security the way it is.

My thoughts are beginning to coalesce around a naming and tagging structure that I think will work for me; I think it's even simpler than yours. There is still a lot I don't know about this whole process, but I do agree with you that now it's time for me to experiment. One reason I haven't done more experimenting so far is because the first 2-disk work I ripper "Rigoletto," turned out weird, and I haven't yet received any answer to the post I entered regarding that. It was called: Strange Result and was posted on 7/8/17. If you have any thoughts on that please let me know.

The structure I have in mind is: For Classical:
Genus/Album name/Work/Composer/Movement or Act

and in those same slots for non-classical I would put:
Genus/Album name/Song/Artist/Track no.

Does this make sense to you? (other than the fact that people universally seem to say NOT to lead off with Genus)

Truly, I welcome your comments.
Don

[schmidj]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I keep my file organization very simple, which works for me. I have a directory on my NAS named Main Music Library that contains my rips (except the old ones ripped to m4a by winamp, in a different directory, and my work I do for others, in yet a third private directory.) Every album I have ripped has its own folder in the Main Music Library directory. Multi-disc set, multiple folders. Directory names are "Album Artist - Album Title" with the album title including, for multi-disc sets, ", disc X" manually added to it before ripping. (people with large numbers of classical multi disc sets would probably not like this, but it works fine for my needs. If the album is a compilation without an artist, my naming string automatically inserts "Various Artists" in the album artist part of the filename, although I try to do that manually when editing the tags so it ends up in the tag also. In each album directory is a file for each track, the folder.jpg artwork (also in the file tags); a soon to be removed m3u playlist of the tracks ( an artifact from the Winamp days (which used it), I never use the playlist thats there now, so bye-bye; and the ripping log, which is good to have if you think there is an issue with one of the tracks. The file names are "track number- 2 digits (like 05) - artist name - title name". I also have "language" in my code to truncate parts of the file and directory names if they are long enough that I feel they might cause trouble reading from my NAS without ending up with duplicate file names, or particularly directory names.

My "base location" is Z:\Main Music Library The Dynamic Naming string is [IFVALUE]album artist,[MAXLENGTH]25,[album artist][],[IFCOMP]Various Artists[][IF!COMP][MAXLENGTH]25,[artist][][][] - [album]\[track] - [MAXLENGTH]25,[artist][] - [MAXLENGTH]40,[title][]

is it obtuse, even for people with programming experience, yes, somewhat, but it is very flexible. Most ripping software gives you absolutely no choice, you get whatever the software writer chose to give you.

Before you lose too much sleep with this, and really before you rip 1000 CD's and then realize your naming scheme is a PITA, try the default, try (into a different directory) each of the ones people have suggested here and in other threads. Rip a dozen or 2 random CDs (with a couple by the same artist and a couple compilation CDs), try playing from each of the directories with your chosen player, try looking at the directories with Explorer (or the Mac equivalent) and see which one makes sense to you. If you want to make changes, set up another profile copying the closest one to what you want and try modifying the naming string and see what the results are. Once you think you are set on one naming string, rip a hundred or so CDs using that string, and again try selecting and playing them with your player, and searching the directories with explorer. As I said before, don't rip 5000 CDs and then discover you have issues. And, really, you shouldn't spend any more time trying to figure out what you want without test-driving the software. I assure you neither dBpoweramp nor your player(s) work the way you think they do.

I also don't work for dBpoweramp, I've used it and other Illustrate software for several years. I've offered suggestions to Spoon, a few of which have been adopted, he may well consider me a PITA... I'm an engineer (semi-retired) by profession, I design audio systems, fix equipment, and do some location recording. I have worked with various forms of computer programming (now called coding) for many years, which gives me an advantage in figuring out setup configurations. Nonetheless, there are a number of issues I've run into when other non-employees have had solutions for. AFAIK, the only dBpoweramp employees regularly here are Spoon (the heart of this whole thing) and Peter P.

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

No. I don't work for dbpoweramp. Just a user like you. Yes there is a logic to the naming strings. it is just some basic code to tell the program to use tag data in a certain way. I've told you how to start....just copy and paste stuff in that I gave you and you're basically done. Have you looked at the help info on naming strings. see attached picture for example. When you click on SET next to naming row, you get the popup where you enter things. If you click on the ? on upper right, it opens the instructions for how this works. There are "?" buttons in almost every page in dbpa. that's where you will find detailed help pages.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks garym,

I do understand that trial and error can get me there, however, I don't know how to even start. The string of [,],\, etc. is Greek to me.

Surely there is logic to creating such naming strings, but that logic escapes me completely. When this notation system was devised the developers had a structure/rules in mind for how to code and how to sequence these naming statements. Seeing a brief run-down of what those rules are would be a good way to get started. Do you know how I can see such rules?

By the way, your posts have been most helpful to me. Do you work for dBpoweramp? I notice you are located in Florida.

Thanks,
Don

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks garym,

I'll keep reading and noodling this around a bit until I decide what to do. When I do I'll surely take you up on your offer to construct the proper string.

Is there a guide that outlines the rules for how to construct a file name string oneself? The string seems to be "codec" in a format and symbols that look pretty daunting ([]\ and all).

there are help links on the page where one enters the dynamic naming string in dbpa (SET from lower left side of ripping screen, naming row). I just figured things out from trial and error.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks garym,

I'll keep reading and noodling this around a bit until I decide what to do. When I do I'll surely take you up on your offer to construct the proper string.

Is there a guide that outlines the rules for how to construct a file name string oneself? The string seems to be "codec" in a format and symbols that look pretty daunting ([]\ and all).