Genre / Style

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Genre / Style

Most use dBpoweramp, a couple use EAC for ripping.

Oggy,

Gee, I totally forgot about 'EAC'. That was actually my first ever port of call (after the bad experience with 'WMP'). I d/l the trial of the former and uninstalled it days later. Just when you thought things could not get any worse than 'WMP'!

Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Genre / Style

Oggy,

If I ever manage to finish ripping my CD collection!, then - and I am not even sure if I would actually do this - consideration may be given towards adding the tags:

COMPOSER SORT (eg. Hancock, Herbie)

and

PRODUCER SORT (eg. Jones, Quincy)

I would think that COMPOSER SORT uses semicolons to separate personnel (eg. Davis, Miles; Parker, Charlie); but PRODUCER - I am pretty sure - does not?

Thanks,

Paul

Hi Paul,

I would have thought that you would want to use Producer, exactly the same way as Composer.

I would think that your Pop CDs will be straightforward compared to Jazz, to tag. Classical as easy, or difficult as you choose to make it. Expect to enter a lot of data manually.

[Oggy]

Re: Genre / Style

Oggy,

Do these people you know (above) have/use 'Illustrate'?; or do they just use whatever freeware they can source, and without any regard?

Paul

Most use dBpoweramp, a couple use EAC for ripping. None use Foobar or Asset. The most common network player amongst them seems to be Sonos, a couple use computers with DACs.

They all love their music: obviously more than tagging it! I absolutely respect their approach, and of course they always have the option to add tags, when hell freezes over!

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Genre / Style

There are so many variables in a personal library, the obvious ones being what genre / style people listen to, and the size of the collection. What works for 100 CDs, may not be so good for 10,000 CDs, and for some, optional tags are clearly essential; for others an irrelevance.

Modern dance music, whatever 'style', or 'genre' it is called this week, has long passed me by, but for others, a few BPM either way, is essential for knowing which 'style' it is. Perhaps they need some more Euro Trance, and just chill.

From what I've seen from most of my friends files, Artist / Album with track numbers, and song titles are the only things they care about. I respect that, and in some ways I am jealous, because they are relaxing listening to music.

Oggy,

If I ever manage to finish ripping my CD collection!, then - and I am not even sure if I would actually do this - consideration may be given towards adding the tags:

COMPOSER SORT (eg. Hancock, Herbie)

and

PRODUCER SORT (eg. Jones, Quincy)

I would think that COMPOSER SORT uses semicolons to separate personnel (eg. Davis, Miles; Parker, Charlie); but PRODUCER - I am pretty sure - does not?

Thanks,

Paul

[evasv]

Re: Genre / Style

I think what you have done with style, covers all bases, and would work brilliantly if the player / app offers Style, and be perfectly workable, even relying on simply, Genre.

Yes, I had both scenarios in mind when I started over with my tagging. In fact I often browse by genre only, even on my home rig.

But I admit that on a portable player lacking support for style, and the Pop/Rock genre being very wide, I sometimes wish for more.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Genre / Style

From what I have seen of other people's collection, the vast majority seem to accept all of the default metadata, only changing the cover art, if it is a particular favourite. They usually have, all of the interesting, Genre and Style tags.

Nearly 150 genres, with many spelling and case variations, is not my Idea of an organised library, but the user doesn't seem concerned whatsoever: the music plays error free, which has surely got to be the primary goal.

Oggy,

Do these people you know (above) have/use 'Illustrate'?; or do they just use whatever freeware they can source, and without any regard?

Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Genre / Style

Good points above! We have different needs, and libraries of different size and variety.

My friends often want my advice about software and tagging. Initially they are often dedicated, but most of them realize that it's more work than it's worth for them and settle for genre, maybe style, but rarely more. Then they usually ask if they can have my library instead... Or they just accept what they can import online. So workload is a factor naturally.

---

FWIW, the Nirvana example could be this in my library:

Genre=Pop/Rock
Style=Rock; Grunge; Acoustic; Unplugged

So you can see that style is rather loose for me

From what I have seen of other people's collection, the vast majority seem to accept all of the default metadata, only changing the cover art, if it is a particular favourite. They usually have, all of the interesting, Genre and Style tags.

Nearly 150 genres, with many spelling and case variations, is not my Idea of an organised library, but the user doesn't seem concerned whatsoever: the music plays error free, which has surely got to be the primary goal.

I think what you have done with style, covers all bases, and would work brilliantly if the player / app offers Style, and be perfectly workable, even relying on simply, Genre.

[Jailhouse]

Re: Genre / Style

Exactly how I listen to my music in my car, player in my smartphone set to random, bluetooth to car "radio".

My need to play my library on the road disappeared when I got satellite radio with the last car I bought, in 2006. If I ever get a new car (I'm thinking about it), it will have SiriusXM. The only problem I've had with it is when Sirius and XM Radio merged and they dropped the XM "Beyond Jazz" channel. I might never have heard of Hiromi, Ozric Tentacles, and others if it hadn't existed.

[Oggy]

Re: Genre / Style

Evasv,

Exactly. A drum-machine will not groove like a good drummer! Equivalently, as you point out, constant precise tuning will sound robotic after a certain period of time (ie. imagine if all singers used 'auto-tune' FX on absolutely everything); the result would be unmusical.

Paul

Sadly, a few years ago, most modern music was auto-tuned; I'm sure not all of it was necessary.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Genre / Style

Interesting! I didn't realize that BPM can vary so much within a track. I guess this is one of the reasons why musicians swing better than machines. On a similar note, an opera singer could sing slightly out of tune, and you would love this "colouration". Perfection isn't always the key...

Evasv,

Exactly. A drum-machine will not groove like a good drummer! Equivalently, as you point out, constant precise tuning will sound robotic after a certain period of time (ie. imagine if all singers used 'auto-tune' FX on absolutely everything); the result would be unmusical.

Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Genre / Style

Interesting! I didn't realize that BPM can vary so much within a track. I guess this is one of the reasons why musicians swing better than machines. On a similar note, an opera singer could sing slightly out of tune, and you would love this "colouration". Perfection isn't always the key...

I will defend the honour of drummers here! As a drummer, I have a recording of me playing a strict tempo song, live, played without a click track. Out of interest, I put a metronome on, and it was spot all the way through.

Equally, there are songs where drummers will push or lay back on the beat and even deliberately slightly slower down or speed up. Sometimes it is not deliberate!

Whereas a drummer can play strict tempo, it is far harder to hit hi-hats and a snare drum consistently, which possibly more than tempo, is why a drum machine sounds robotic.

Astrud Gilberto sounds rather gorgeous singing desafinado, and in a Post Punk; New Wave; Goth Rock, style (!), I enjoy Siouxsie Sioux singing ...... flat.

[evasv]

Re: Genre / Style

The problem with BPM in non-electronic music is that because the band (say, The Beatles) are playing live (and with no backing-track), and so the tempo (ie. BPM) constantly wanders. This is nothing against their (or anyone's) 'musicianship', but rather a fact-of-life in that humans are not mechanical machines and able to main absolute precise precision (eg. like a drum-machine). And so, to compensate for fluctuations, the value one would have to state in the BPM field would be that of an approx. value or range:

BPM = 124~128

Interesting! I didn't realize that BPM can vary so much within a track. I guess this is one of the reasons why musicians swing better than machines. On a similar note, an opera singer could sing slightly out of tune, and you would love this "colouration". Perfection isn't always the key...

[evasv]

Re: Genre / Style

Good points above! We have different needs, and libraries of different size and variety.

My friends often want my advice about software and tagging. Initially they are often dedicated, but most of them realize that it's more work than it's worth for them and settle for genre, maybe style, but rarely more. Then they usually ask if they can have my library instead... Or they just accept what they can import online. So workload is a factor naturally.

---

FWIW, the Nirvana example could be this in my library:

Genre=Pop/Rock
Style=Rock; Grunge; Acoustic; Unplugged

So you can see that style is rather loose for me

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Genre / Style

Exactly how I listen to my music in my car, player in my smartphone set to random, bluetooth to car "radio". But I've now filled up my 256 GB micro SD card (128K +/- VBR copies of my FLAC library. I can't yet afford the 400 GB micro SD cards, so I'm going to have to weed some tracks out in the transfer process...

Hi John,

I ended up buying a SanDisk 200GB micro-SD to save all of my FLACS on, and to keep inside my Amazon Tablet for playback (the latter only has 16GB onboard storage). I am hoping, when I have finished ripping my collection, that everything will fit on it; otherwise, like yourself, I will have to reluctantly perform some selective omitting.

Cheers,

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Genre / Style

Yes, professionals would have most use of those tags of course, but I know a few "common people" who add them for reasons I do not know.

I think there are programs that you could set up to detect and tag over night(s), but I don't know how long it would take... I believe bpm would be fairly accurate, but key sometimes a little harder to detect correctly. But I'm no expert here and I don't use those tags.

Evasv,

Many DJs use DAWs (Digital Audio Workstation) s/w such as 'Ableton' for their performances. These often have a sophisticated tagging engine and I dare say that such professionals make use of many other tags of which the likes of you and I would not consider.

The problem with BPM in non-electronic music is that because the band (say, The Beatles) are playing live (and with no backing-track), and so the tempo (ie. BPM) constantly wanders. This is nothing against their (or anyone's) 'musicianship', but rather a fact-of-life in that humans are not mechanical machines and able to main absolute precise precision (eg. like a drum-machine). And so, to compensate for fluctuations, the value one would have to state in the BPM field would be that of an approx. value or range:

BPM = 124~128

Cheers,

Paul