Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

[hofftodd]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Brendan, thanks for the quick reply. I'll try your suggestions tonight and do some more investigating. I'll report back what I find.

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Hi Todd.

1. I don't use vista, and the batch ripper and the batch ripper configuration are spoon's domain, so I can't speak to this item. I am glad you were able to find a workaround, though. Good investigating skills!

2. Good.

3. Some Qs:

- What do you mean by spindle offset? As far as I am aware, there are no adjustments. You put the discs in, rotate the little spindle lock at the top 180 degrees, invert and it just goes straight in.
- Are you sure that the spindle has been properly set into place? Please scroll back to review my hints and also read the micro-orbit documentation for the official word.
- Is the device on a flat surface? The drop capability is very sensitive to the angle of placement. Also, going out on a limb: it may be possible to improve the behavior of an out-of-spec unit by mounting the unit on an incline with the front very slightly lower than the rear.
- Are the discs actually clean? Perhaps some are sticking together...
- Does it happen randomly in the middle of a spindle of discs, or does it happen more after some spindle placements than others?
- Is it possible the "wings" used to lift a disc from the tray are misadjusted and perhaps occasionally interfering with a disc drop?

4. This is only a worry if you use the Microboards-specific driver. If you use the Kodak-specific driver, it works around the problem and also beeps at you with five different beeps as it traverses the last five discs so that you know, ahead of time, that a spindle refill is necessary.

-brendan

[hofftodd]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

I also purchased one of the Kodak MicroOrbit robots from ebay which arrived last night. I've been playing around with it for a few hours, and here are my experiences so far.

* Getting it to run on Vista was not a slam dunk. I couldn't get the batch ripper configuration file changes to stick. I went into the configuration screen and edited the 5 command lines to use the com port that the unit showed up on (COM5), and clicked configure. If I then went into Batch Ripper and started a batch, I would get the ULCLI error saying it couldn't communicate with the com port. I noticed that back in the configuration screen the command lines would show COM1 again. So, I resorted to manually configuring the command files found in Program Files/Illustrate/Batch Ripper with a text editor. I'm not sure if this is a Vista specific problem or not.

* Now that I've got the unit working, it does a great job ripping the disks when they get into the tray.

* The robot I purchased sometimes has problems knocking the next disk off of the spindle. I can see the "black finger" comes out and touches the disk when it is supposed to, but it doesn't always bump it enough to knock it off of the spindle. Has anyone else had this problem? I'd like to know if there is a trick to setting the spindle offset in such a way that the disks always fall into the tray when they should.

* I noticed in a previous post that the Kodak units sometimes stop when there are 5 disks left. Is this something I have to worry about if I use the Kodak Kiosk drivers or only if I switch to using the MicroOrbits drivers?

Thanks,
Todd

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

And for the record, here's the difference between a standard Microboards MicroOrbit and the Kodak-custom variety:

The Kodak has the following that the MicroOrbit doesn't: an external interface to a PC for the drive and robot control board, an internal USB hub, an internal USB to serial converter to the robot board, an internal USB to IDE converter for the drive, an adjusted sensor (or firmware modification) that throws errors on the Insert command when 5 or less discs are left (instead of when zero are left), a custom-firmware Teac CD-RW drive and, finally, a seriously crazy color scheme (thanks Kodak).

The MicroOrbit has the following that the Kodak doesn't: an internal duplication controller, a hard disk, upgradeable firmware, an extra LED on the front, a button on the front, a buzzer/bell, and sometimes a DVD drive instead of a CD drive in the newer units. If you want to use one of these with the batch ripper, you'll need to externalize the drive and serial interfaces yourself (hardware work). Unless you are very clever, doing so would also break the duplication functionality (always keep notes on where cables/wires go before disconnecting).

They both are:

- built to withstand a few more dings than your average robot, as the moving parts are "warded" and hard for the user to inadvertently break off.
- sometimes shipped with some parts needing a bit of adjustment. e.g. I've received some spindles where the "lock" part at the end was too easy to move or impossible to move, which required a torx screwdriver to address.
- somewhat fiddly to load and unload (less so than an XL1B, though), but you can do it well after some practice. I tend to use a modified version of the approach outlined in the manual, starting by tipping the stack slightly towards the rear of the unit as I place it in the hopper, and curving it toward the vertical as I finalize the placement as this helps avoid overtipping toward the front which causes discs to fall off the spindle.
- not capable of physically rejecting discs separate from the output stack, so you need to keep an eye on the reject column of the batch ripper and go through the stack at the end of the run to pull the rejects.
- somewhat sensitive to being on a non-flat surface due to the gravity feed system.

In any case, the linked-to manual should be helpful in giving good operating and handling advice.

[kretch]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Thanks Steven!

[Spies]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Kretch,

For a manual you can try this one.

I ordered a few of the Kodaks myself and plan on replacing my Sony XL1B's as well. :smile2: Should have them next week.

Steven

[kretch]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Hi Brendan, all
I've purchased a microorbit for giggles and to see I can substitute some of my XL1B's for ripping.
So here's a total noob question for you:
*) Where can I find a manual for this thing? i.e. how do I assemble it, where do the discs go etc. ? I don't want to mess up my new toy by hooking it up upside down somehow.

Any information would be most welcome

Thanks!
Kretch

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Still Says Unknown on the device(USB Serial Controller), with the good old yellow Questionmark.

Very weird But I connected the Com1 port from the back of the desktop Dell, then directly to the DB9 Cable on the inside and also left the USB connected. Did a test on the Kodak Kiosk set-up config, It DID NOT work. Then thought I should try the Micro Orbit set-up test. IT WORKED!!!
I just Set up to start ripping and it's Hauling ARSE. Looks like a possible inside Serial to USB cable issue like you said. I don't know 100%, It's working and I'm leaving it alone. Your AWESOME!!! Thanks for the info.

ROB

Hmm, if the USB device is seen but is "not working" in the device manager, then you might just need the correct Prolific or FTDI driver for the USB to serial bridge. That might have been the problem all along!

You can use the Microboards driver, but with one caveat.

With the Microboards driver, you'll never be able to rip the last 5 discs without manual intervention.

Why?

Because, for kiosk use, they modified the sensor to start returning an error code after loading the fifth disc instead after the last (or on the first "empty" shot). Presumably, this would be so that the retail location would get a "discs running low" indicator so that they could restock it before the customer had to be delayed.

The Microboards driver sees that as a failed load and stops (though you can tell it to resume, I think). The Kodak driver starts keeping count and gives different beep sounds depending on if the disc is the fifth, fourth, third, second or last before it tells you it is empty.

In general, though: congratulations on your new ripper bot!

-brendan

[DJ ROB]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Still Says Unknown on the device(USB Serial Controller), with the good old yellow Questionmark.

Very weird But I connected the Com1 port from the back of the desktop Dell, then directly to the DB9 Cable on the inside and also left the USB connected. Did a test on the Kodak Kiosk set-up config, It DID NOT work. Then thought I should try the Micro Orbit set-up test. IT WORKED!!!
I just Set up to start ripping and it's Hauling ARSE. Looks like a possible inside Serial to USB cable issue like you said. I don't know 100%, It's working and I'm leaving it alone. Your AWESOME!!! Thanks for the info.

ROB

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Rob, one more thing:

There's also the chance that it might be a driver issue. When you connect the device, does any new device show up in the USB subtree or as an unknown device?

-brendan

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

My IT guys are saying that the Robot is not coming up in the COM Port at all. They were wondering if the robots firmware is gone or does not come up due to it being originally an attachment to a Kodak Kiosk system. So I guess that means that Mirco Orbit CD Firmware needs installed and I probably would have to contact Microboards.

Thanks
ROB

Rob.

If you look inside the case, you'll find something amazing:

The USB port on the back is just a bracket, that feeds into a 7-port USB hub. That USB hub then connects to two different devices: a USB to RS232 serial cable adapter and a USB to IDE drive adapter.

The serial cable adapter then plugs into the robot controller board and the IDE adapter plugs into the drive.

I'd something inside has become disconnected after the USB hub, or perhaps the internal USB to RS232 cable is bad.

I received a couple of these where there were build problems, easily fixable. One like the above situation and another where one of the lifter paddles was mounted 90 degress off of where it should be (easily fixable with a torx and philips screwdriver set).

I'm guessing that some point years ago microboards got a very large contract to create these and...may have not done as good a job as they do putting them together (or perhaps it was farmed out).

-brendan

[DJ ROB]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

My IT guys are saying that the Robot is not coming up in the COM Port at all. They were wondering if the robots firmware is gone or does not come up due to it being originally an attachment to a Kodak Kiosk system. So I guess that means that Mirco Orbit CD Firmware needs installed and I probably would have to contact Microboards.

Thanks
ROB

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Additionally, for the Kodak unit, if it is not obvious which port the USB serial port is connected to, you can compare the device manager's "Ports" subtree with the kodak disconnected vs. connected. When connected an additional com port should show up. That way you know which com port to use.

If there's a concern the robot isn't responding correctly (e.g, the robot controller board is bad), you can open hyperterminal, set the speed to 9600, settings to 8N1 open the connection and type "V" then "C". "V" should give info on the robot, "C" should give an "X". Before running the batch ripper, make sure you exit hyperterminal.

-brendan

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

So I'm one of the guys that purchased a NEW Kodak Kiosk Batch Ripper from eBay last week. Great deal and It looks tough. I got the all software purchased, downloaded and install yesterday (dBpoweramp Reference R13.1 Registered, CD Writer Release 3, Batch Ripper and Kodak Drivers, and perfectmeta AMG) The problem is I'm getting a Error saying: ULCLI Notification Unable to initialize robot shutting down. I setup on 2 different computers to make sure. I even did the testing commands in the configuration, the Post-Batch CLI was the only function working (It was ejecting the tray). Now do I need to update something on the Kodak Kiosk Hardware for the Robot to respond to the commands?

1. What serial port does the robot show up on? Check the Device Manager (windows-pause/Hardware/Device Manager). Does it show up as COM3? COM8? Etc. Make sure you always plug the unit into the exact same USB port, or windows will be "helpful" and assign a different serial port number for each USB port you use, which means having to reconfigure things almost every time you plug it in.

2. Do you have all five command lines set to use the same com port and is it the correct one? If you've messed the commands lines up, change the driver to the manual eject drive, save, then come back and switch to Kodak to get the original, default command lines, and then edit from there.

3. Due to the drive reservation code in the ULCLI, execution order of the commands matters a lot. For example, if you are using the Test function in the Configuration module, you have to perform a pre-batch before you perform a load. If you've done things out of order, do a post-batch, reboot and proceed normally.

-brendan

[DJ ROB]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

So I'm one of the guys that purchased a NEW Kodak Kiosk Batch Ripper from eBay last week. Great deal and It looks tough. I got the all software purchased, downloaded and install yesterday (dBpoweramp Reference R13.1 Registered, CD Writer Release 3, Batch Ripper and Kodak Drivers, and perfectmeta AMG) The problem is I'm getting a Error saying: ULCLI Notification Unable to initialize robot shutting down. I setup on 2 different computers to make sure. I even did the testing commands in the configuration, the Post-Batch CLI was the only function working (It was ejecting the tray). Now do I need to update something on the Kodak Kiosk Hardware for the Robot to respond to the commands?