Decouple Folder and Subfolder Names from Tag fields

[ClassYK]

Hi,

Would it be possible to provide 2 extra fields named for instance FolderNameL1 and FolderName L2 on the main screen of CD Ripper that would exclusively be dedicated to the storage organisation needs of files on the pc or server?

On the PC, the File structure usually is:
[FolderNameL1]
[FolderNameL2]
[Track number and Title 01]
[Track number and Title 02]
[Track number and Title 03]
[Track number and Title ...]

For example:
Beethoven
Symphony no1 (Karajan)
01 Adagio molto.flac
02 Andante cantabile.flac
03 .....

By default, the fields for FolderNameL1 could be populated from [album artist], FolderNameL2 from [album].
The purpose is to allow the user modify these fields in order to organize his file structure without having to either induce tag modifications nor to resort to convoluted filename programming.

I believe this request would help a lot of us who are dealing with ripping many classical music to cope with a system that is primarily designed for pop music (eg. an "album artist" is unknown in classical vocabulary)...

Best regards,

[dbfan]

Re: Decouple Folder and Subfolder Names from Tag fields

By default tracks are ripped to a artist\album folder

[ClassYK]

Re: Decouple Folder and Subfolder Names from Tag fields

Yes, you are right and for classical music it's a problem. Who is the "artist" in a piano concerto? Beethoven, Karajan, Brendel or perhaps all of them?

Let's look at the ripping process as a whole. There are two distinct functionalities:
1. rip and store the ripped files in an organized way on your computer,
2. retrieve and play tracks or albums on your equipment (logitech squeezebox touch in my case)

Currently, the mechanism for naming stored files on the computer is based on the extraction of information from tag fields. Besides the complicated programming associated with this, there are numerous problems that are difficult to cope with mainly (but not only) for classical music: partial or wrong info in the fields, misspelling of names, lack of performing artists, compilation, multidiscs, local characters, etc... There are numerous posts on the subject.

My wishlist for a new function is the creation of two fields strictly dedicated to the storage of ripped files that would be independent from any tag field. I am sure that this would vastly simplify the organisation of ripped files on the computer, while preserving the full tag information for the player H/W and S/W.

In classical music, the way most stores organize their CD is by composer's last name. Currently, most tags are first name last name (eg Ludwig van Beethoven). I'm really not at ease with storing Beethoven under Ludwig and Mozart under Amadeus. I don't want to store a Beethoven symphony under Karajan (artist) either.

The two requested fields in question would be FolderName and SubfolderName. Examples:

FolderName\Subfoldername\Track number and title
Beethoven\Symphony no1\Allegro cantabile
Beethoven\Symphony no1 (Karajan-1965)\Allegro cantabile
Beethoven\Symphony no1 (Karajan-1972)\Allegro cantabile
Beethoven\Symphony no1 (Carlos Kleiber)\Allegro cantabile
Beethoven\Symphony no1 (Erich Kleiber)\Allegro cantabile

Providing the correct content of FolderName and SubFolderName would be my responsibility and would correspond to how I want to organize the storing (and easy retrieving) of ripped files on my computer.

If we come back to the two distinct functionalities of the ripping process:
1. rip and store the ripped files --> FolderName\SubFolderName fields
2. retrieve and play tracks or albums on your equipment --> Tag information

[Porcus]

Re: Decouple Folder and Subfolder Names from Tag fields

If we were in The Ideal World [tm] (that is, if I were the dictator), then there would have been a <primarysortstring>, <performer> and <composer>. Unfortunately, you are stuck with the metadata providers' formats. If you read a piece of classical music off freedb, you will sometimes get the composer in the <artist> field, sometimes not. As long as there is no consistent format where people write Beethoven, Ludvig van, there is not really any way to get naming right either -- correct naming needs correct tagging, basically.

Of course you can then make sure tags are correct by filling in manually before ripping. What I did instead, was to sort all my single-composer classical CDs (as opposed to 'various composers') by composer, rip until done with one composer, then tag, then rename folders/files according to corrected tags.

Also, I keep my classical music (and contemporary composers) apart from everything else.

[ClassYK]

Re: Decouple Folder and Subfolder Names from Tag fields

By your own words: "rip until done with one composer, then tag, then rename folders/files according to corrected tags".

Why do we have to tag then rename folders/files ? Because tags and filenames often interact in conflicting ways between was is needed to efficiently organize storage of files and the information that you want to associate with a file or album.

My request is not for changing the existing way of extracting file storage information from tags for all people who are happy with how it's done now , but for adding a new way to store files by the implementation of 2 filename fields. The ripper could check if the filename fields are empty and then use the existing tag-based info system, or if the filename fields are populated with user info, to use that information instead for storing ripped albums.

[RLANE]

Re: Decouple Folder and Subfolder Names from Tag fields

Yes, you are right and for classical music it's a problem. Who is the "artist" in a piano concerto? Beethoven, Karajan, Brendel or perhaps all of them?

Let's look at the ripping process as a whole. There are two distinct functionalities:
1. rip and store the ripped files in an organized way on your computer,
2. retrieve and play tracks or albums on your equipment (logitech squeezebox touch in my case)

Currently, the mechanism for naming stored files on the computer is based on the extraction of information from tag fields. Besides the complicated programming associated with this, there are numerous problems that are difficult to cope with mainly (but not only) for classical music: partial or wrong info in the fields, misspelling of names, lack of performing artists, compilation, multidiscs, local characters, etc... There are numerous posts on the subject.

My wishlist for a new function is the creation of two fields strictly dedicated to the storage of ripped files that would be independent from any tag field. I am sure that this would vastly simplify the organisation of ripped files on the computer, while preserving the full tag information for the player H/W and S/W.

In classical music, the way most stores organize their CD is by composer's last name. Currently, most tags are first name last name (eg Ludwig van Beethoven). I'm really not at ease with storing Beethoven under Ludwig and Mozart under Amadeus. I don't want to store a Beethoven symphony under Karajan (artist) either.

The two requested fields in question would be FolderName and SubfolderName. Examples:

FolderName\Subfoldername\Track number and title
Beethoven\Symphony no1\Allegro cantabile
Beethoven\Symphony no1 (Karajan-1965)\Allegro cantabile
Beethoven\Symphony no1 (Karajan-1972)\Allegro cantabile
Beethoven\Symphony no1 (Carlos Kleiber)\Allegro cantabile
Beethoven\Symphony no1 (Erich Kleiber)\Allegro cantabile

Providing the correct content of FolderName and SubFolderName would be my responsibility and would correspond to how I want to organize the storing (and easy retrieving) of ripped files on my computer.

If we come back to the two distinct functionalities of the ripping process:
1. rip and store the ripped files --> FolderName\SubFolderName fields
2. retrieve and play tracks or albums on your equipment --> Tag information

You can create custom tags and then use them in the Encoder settings for path definitions.
When you do that, the custom tag fields show up in the Meta listing everytime you put in a disk to rip.
I do this with several custom tag fields. The Output-Dynamic path definition for each Encoder in my classical profile look like this :

[composer]\[genre]\[tag]SubGenre[]\[tag]Composition[]\[artist] - [year]\[tag]CompositionPart[]\MP3\[track] - [title]

The custom tags are in bold.
You could do the same. Create Folder and SubFolder custom tags and the your Output Dynamic string would look like this for what you say you want:

[tag]Folder\[tag]SubFolder\[track] - [title]

How would this setup not accomplish your desire?

[ClassYK]

Re: Decouple Folder and Subfolder Names from Tag fields

Thanks for the proposal. It's so far the closest I have seen on matching my request. There are a couple of oddities though:
- the (useless) presence of these personal tags in the tag list
- in order to have the 2 tags appearing at the top of the list when you press the "ID Meta" tab, the first character of the tag name must be numerically lower than "a". For instance, Folder could become 1stFolderName and SubFolder could become 2ndFolderName
- the need to adapt the Output Dynamic String to reflect the use of the personal tags.

Anyhow, this gives me hope that one day the two fileds will be readily available somewhere below the FLAC encoder level selection! :smile2: