dBpowerAMP Audio Player R2 Beta 8

[Narler]

Hi BestRip,

Yes I think you're right about interpretations.

Here's how I would "presume" the Z-Order would work.

Lowest number = Highest priority, so Z-Order 1 is deemed more important than Z-Order 12.

Examples

If you have 2 skins (Neither of which are <IsAmpWindow>) that overlap. A blue skin with Z-Order set to 1 and a Red skin with Z-order set to 2.:

If you open the Red skin, it is displayed, if you now open the blue skin aswell, it is placed ONTOP of the red skin.

If you close all skins, open the blue skin first, and now open the red skin, the red skin is placed BENEATH the blue skin.

With both skins open, if you click on either or both of the skins with the mouse, nothing should happen, as the BLUE skin has priority based on the Z-Order number.

Now if another 2 skins overlap: A Green skin has Z-Order 2 and a Orange skin also has Z-Order 2: (Neither skin is set to <IsAmpWindow>)

If you open the Green skin, it is displayed, if you now open the orange skin, the orange skin will be placed ONTOP of the green skin. This is because the last selected skin should be given the focus, as the previous skin is of equal Z-Order.

If you close all skins, open the Orange skin, then open the green skin, the Green skin will be placed ONTOP of the orange skin, for the same reason as in the above paragraph.

With both skins open, if you click on either or both of the skins with the mouse, which ever skin you click on, should be brought to focus (ie put ontop of skins that have equal or higher Z-Order (higher meaning larger number.

Is that how you see it BestRip and Spoon?

2. These problems are more related to the "isMainAMP" than the USER defined ones. I guess it has some to do with that if you have accessed another program and go back to dBpowerAMP, it wants to show who is amp...?

Yes, i agree, everything I worked out and tested, goes right out the window when anything crosses paths with the IsAmpWindow. I had worked out a solution to this with all my previous skins, and as of this version of DAP only the Narler'X is having problems by now showing the EQ skin.

But all of my above examples should be identical even if one of the skins is assigned as <IsAmpWindow>. At the moment, the Z-Order seems to be handled different when <IsAmpWindow> is used?

The Narler's X is a good example. A test I did to correct the EQ from not being shown, setting Z-Order 2 for the <IsAmpWindow> skin, and then setting Z-Order 1 for the EQ and Info skins. Only the EQ would be placed ontop ?.. the Info skin would still be placed beneath the <IsAmpWindow> even though it is clearly a higher Z-Order ?

1. To have a skin part that wants to disappear not doing that it is possible to mount another skin part on that disappearing skin and giving that the same active while "USER..." command. Having 2 skin parts being called seem to keep it more in place.

I think I mentioned to Spoon ages ago (possibly on the old forum), it would be good to be able to lock skins to other skins, rather than only being able to lock skins to the <IsAmpWindow>.

[Spoon]

To tell you the truth it makes my head spin

Realistically the Zorder can only work with multi windows on 1 component, not multi components and anything with a ZOrder of 1 should always be above something of 2 on the same component.

[BestRip]

Hi Narler,

Yes I agree fully on all that you state except on the 2 skins on the same Z-Order.

[QUOTE]
Now if another 2 skins overlap: A Green skin has Z-Order 2 and a Orange skin also has Z-Order 2: (Neither skin is set to <IsAmpWindow>)


Trying to have more than 1 skin on the same Z-Order introduces a new undefined variable (or at least not controlled from within the Skin Designer) - which one should go on top, and when? I think that it would set a level of complexity on it all, making it almost impossible to comprehend. There ought to be ways to work around that factor in designing if one needed to alternate between 2 different skins? Personally I would greatly prefer stability to complexity. Possibly the programming could be easier if there were more set parameters put into the Skin Designer, to define how a skin is supposed to act?

Trying to illustrate this whole thing on the Z-Order issue to myself I drew a graphic outline of it on a piece of paper and it was rather illuminating to the complexity of it all. I recommend it, it turned much more understandable, not that I don't think you do.

The parameters*:

* Amp items: 1.IsAMP 2.TrayControl 3,4,5,6....USERdefined
each contain:

* 12 Z-Orders: (Layers?) 1-12
and they can all each be set at "on Top"??? (as it appears using it on any *Z-Order item will cause the entire *Amp Item to be set at "always stay on top", and maybe that is intended but it certainly doesn’t do the trick of controlling the separate *Skin parts of that *Amp Item or in other words, throw around the *Z-Order).
Each Z-Order in turn can contain:

* Skin parts: as many as you like apparently

Have I missed some other part?


Another question related to this is how “toggle” works and if more clear or extended could relieve the Z-Order of much of its expectations. My understanding of toggle is that when pressed again it will turn the function off. This is the case on some of the functions but not all, a bit confusing.
But alike the Z-Order thing I believe that a clear definition of it will handle very much of the complexity or confusion in the area. I’m probably a bit daft, dense or something (you choose, but I don’t get a clear grasp of the settings toggle, set and clear for the buttons. When I think I do I test something other and suddenly it doesn’t work like I thought and I loose sight of the little light I had and back into the darkness I go..... somebody throw me down a line.......:confused:

Well, now you know. I think I’ll go back to designing instead

BestRip :supersmil

[Narler]

Realistically the Zorder can only work with multi windows on 1 component, not multi components and anything with a ZOrder of 1 should always be above something of 2 on the same component.

I agree completely. And that is how it works now in this release. It's just the multiple skins of same Z-Order that has also changed now in this release.

Also i should have mentioned, that i was referring to all skins being on the same component, not from different components such as the user defined etc.. This includes all my skins that i've mentioned. All skins are configured in the main amp section in the skin designer (not in seperate user defined areas)

Trying to have more than 1 skin on the same Z-Order introduces a new undefined variable (or at least not controlled from within the Skin Designer) - which one should go on top, and when? I

That worked fine in the previous release. if a z-order 2 skin is open, and you open another z-order 2 skin, then the last opened z-order 2 skin should (and did) have the focus. This allows a fantastic ability of letting the User choose which skin they wish to have ontop. I like this idea.

think that it would set a level of complexity on it all, making it almost impossible to comprehend. There ought to be ways to work around that factor in designing if one needed to alternate between 2 different skins?

If something else is added to the skin designer and dap, that could render all previous skins unusable on the new versions. I think everything can be resolved with z-order, it's just having clear definitions of when and how something can be used. To be honest, i think if a set of "Rules for usage" were drawn up, and skin makers just follow those rules, there is no need for additional programming to ensure those rules are followed. I don't want to put any additional workload onto spoon.

Personally I would greatly prefer stability to complexity. Possibly the programming could be easier if there were more set parameters put into the Skin Designer, to define how a skin is supposed to act?

I agree, stability has to be a higher priority than fancy graphics or features.

Ok, just to clarify, with the previous version of DAP, my existing skins worked. The skins in question are Narler's X, Narler's NTM, Narler's Tie Fighter and Narler's TB303.

The reason I'm mentioning this, is with all the above skins, they all had multiple skins that overlayed each other (upto a depth of 5 skins, and all these overlapping skins would have equal Z-Order number). So what I would make is tabs so that if all skins are opened, the user can just click on the corresponding tab and that skin will take focus (be ontop of any other open skin that has equal or higher (as in larger number) z-order number. I prefer this as it gives the user a great level of control.

But as it is at the moment in this release, it's not possible to let the user select which skin they have "ontop".

[BestRip]

Hi Narler,

I tested the Narler X and saw what happened, so I understand. (For example that users of Narler X can't view and do settings on the EQ).

I'm all for a solution that would have this work. All I'm looking for is a clear definition of the rules of this Z-Order thing. I feel that it is important that this be clearly defined now so that what happened to your skins now won't happen in the future to other skins due to having to redefine these rules of Z-Order. I have not used the tab structure like you have but I rely on having Z-Order being stable, or at least would like to be able to use it.
Perhaps a function to toggle skin parts could solve the issue?

Quite a lot of time has gone into trying to understand it and I still don't get a good working grasp of it. It sort of sets the ground rules for what can be created in a skin I think. Again, if it needs to be simplified to work well, I'm all for it.

Best Rip

[Spoon]

What I would like it to do and what it actually does are two different things

When I next have chance to look at it I know which Skins it should be correct on, I have a few ideas - I guess just keep posting betas until it works correctly.

[P C]

MMC Tree Structure?

Hi,
I've been using dbpoweramp right from the beginning. But find that with an increasing number of files, finding just the tracks I need in MMC is getting more difficult.

Any plans for a hierarchical tree struture for organising the media collection in MMC? If this is too much of a pain, how about a filter box at the top, so that in any collection, you can select the artists/albums etc whose tracks you want to see? Thought it might be there in beta8, but couldnt see it.

[Spoon]

I had planned on doing a my album collection, but haven't got around to it.

[Spoon]

Ok Zorder Take III, save this file in C:\Program Files\Illustrate\dBpowerAMP:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/beta/Amp.exe

168KB

[BestRip]

Tried it on my work computer.
+ It doesn't require a locking skin part
+ It doesn't flicker the under laying skin
- It is not stable when moved around, skinparts float around.

I feel the last minus point being more "offensive" than the 2 + points. I guess it is the "magnetic" function at play here.

Trying it out a bit more:
- It still seems to drop above laying skin parts

[BestRip]

Well what can I say, it seems to work great now, silly me :blush:.



All the above "minus points" were actually caused by the little skin parts I used to remedy when it didn't work ok. Having removed them I tested it further and found a few more adjustments I have to make on my skin due to the "magnetic" function. After that there should be no problem with how my skin is acting.

As far as I can see now, I'm very happy with the ZOrder function. I hope it works OK for Narler to, I havn't checked - been kinda bissy...

Thank you Spoon!

:smile2: :smile2: :smile2:

[Narler]

New Z-Order update.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you on this. Anyways here's a few queries I have.

I've made a New-Z-Order test skin, as I'm not sure if the option to switch between skins of differing Z-Orders was suppose to be there or not?.

You can download this New Z Order test skin from HERE



For instance. using the above image (which is of the new Z-Order test skin). I have 3 skins that all overlap each other (IsAmpWindow is not involved this is the white skin on the left).

Looking at the 3 coloured skins on the left only! First skin A) is Cyan in colour and set to Z-Order 2, second B) is purple in colour and set to Z-Order 3 and last C) is yellow in colour and set to Z-Order 4.

Ok. when i open all 3 (by using the 3 buttons from the left white skin), everything is in the correct order, A) is on top of B) which is ontop of C). However if I click anywhere on A). B) is displayed and placed ontop of A). now if i click anywhere on B). C) is now displayed on top, so the order is now C) B) A).

IF I click anywhere that all 3 skins overlap, the more I click the more they cycle.

This is what I expected to happen

• That A) would remain in focus at all times as it has the highest Z order of the 3 coloured windows.

I did not expect this to happen when each skin has a different Z-Order number?.. I would have expected them to retain their position (as displayed in the picture).

I did expect something like this to occur *if* all skins had the same Z-Order (ie A) B) and C) were all set to Z-Order 2) However in my test, if all skins are set to Z-Order, they are physically LOCKED in the way they are displayed? This is the next test.

Using the pictures on the right. ALL have the same Z-Order of 6. Now if i click anywhere on any of those 3 colours. NOTHING happens?.. I can not select the skin I want in focus?.

Now. not to confuse you more (but I must admit, I am confused). IF you change the status of the IsAmpWindow, this completely changes the behavour of the above. You can test this. in my New Z-Order test, just change the Z-Order of the white skin, and see what it does to the 3 coloured skins that are accessed by buttons from that white skin.

For example. (using only the skins on the left of the test)

White skin. Z-Order 1, sub skins A) at Z-order 2, B) at Z-Order 3 and C) at Z-order 4. each click on A) where all skins overlap, you will be cycled through all A) B) and C).

White skin, Z-order 2. sub skins A) at Z-order 2, B) at Z-Order 3 and C) at Z-order 4. each click on A), nothing happens. If you click on B) you will be cycled through B) and C) only. A) remains on focus. Click on C). Nothing different happens.

White skin, Z-order 3. The exact same as above paragraph occurs.

Now, if i change the Z-order of the second white skin (which has the buttons to control the right column colour skins). to Z-Order 1. Then ALL skins are locked. and clicking anywhere results in no change?.?.?

So, the expectations I had were:

• Skins of different Z-Order will retain their position At All Times. Irrespective of where you click the mouse
• Skins of equal Z-Order will be displayed in the sequence that they were opened. To make one of these skins have the focus, you must click directly ON that skin. Not cycle through all overlayed skins.
• No skin should be influenced by another skin which it is not directly in contact with (ie if the skins are not overlapping I can't see why changing the Z-order of the left white skin, effects how the cyan and purple skins interact

I'm currently working on some new skins, but as they all involve overlayed skins, I'm not sure which avenue I should persue. Based on my tests I can get the skins to function as I would like, however any change to the z-order logic would yield my new skins non functional, (as what happened with my previous skins when this beta was released)

If there's anything I can do to assist you in sorting this out Spoon, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks.

[BestRip]

Warning

Hi Narler,

I downloaded the trial skin and started to test it to see more clearly what you mean but I got stuck into a 100% processing loop like I have done earlier with some skins (that don't have controls or whatever it is that is causing it). Had to hard reboot with failsafe option to get out of it. I had music playing when changing to this trial skin and the problem came as it changed track.

(One way to cause this 100% processor load that I know how to do is to set a spectrum to up or down and then make it 0 pixels high and then update it to play, after that it's goodbye...:happy: )

Apart from all that I managed to see that it didn't work entierly like one would expect, though I must say I think the latest beta is the best working dAP yet, regarding the ZOrder.

Otherwise I agree with what you state in the thread and I hope there will be no major changes in how it is working now, apart from perhaps some more stability or what you state above.

BestRip

[Spoon]

Thanks for your work looking into it Narler...Looks like it still need some refining, leave it with me.

[Spoon]

Skins Z Order Take 4!

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/beta/Amp.exe

It should be 100% ok.

BTW I get a 100% lockup with that skin as well when it changes track, I don't know what that is about...