PerfectTUNES discussion

[Porcus]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

@ mickc: HDCD isn't 'flagged' in the metadata, but in the signal itself. Every now and then the least-significant bit is replaced by a bit-sequence that says that this is a HDCD (and the following settings should be used: [...]). The HDCD 'flag' is really a carefully designed miniscule distortion of ... sources say 1, 2 or 5 percent of the LSB, I am not sure what is right.

I would advice against using the HDCD DSP upon ripping, for reasons outlined in http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthre...l=1*post119732 . (In fact, I have started to re-rip my HDCDs to get rid of that thing.)



@ TedSmith:

I still think it would be great to have more levels than certain/possible.
- signal identical
- signal identical modulo offset
- most likely taken from the same master (but not bit-identical, say, due to lossy compression)
- most likely same recording but different mastering
- most likely same music. Yeah, with a slider for score threshold.

I don't see any reason not to implement the two first ones, as it could be done simply by taking those that as-of-now score as certain matches, and perform the AccurateRip CRC calculation algorithm.

[mickc]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

Thanks for that, Porcus - I only have two or thee HDCDs, so I'll do as you suggest. One of the others is Neil Young's "On The Beach". No idea of any others though - hopefully in a day or so when PerfectTUNES has run through my collection again I can find out!

Mick

[Porcus]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

Thanks for that, Porcus - I only have two or thee HDCDs, so I'll do as you suggest. One of the others is Neil Young's "On The Beach". No idea of any others though - hopefully in a day or so when PerfectTUNES has run through my collection again I can find out!

If you did use the HDCD DSP, then look for 24-bit files.

[mickc]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

That's what I'll check when the errors come through. I do have a fair few 24 bit files bought online as high resolution downloads as well though.

However, in this instance at least, it seems PerfectTUNES is working, well, perfectly!

I'll report back if I find any anomalies that aren't covered by the possible workings of the HDCD DSP plugin, otherwise thanks for your assistance, guys.

Mick

[twit]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

I'm also getting a number of albums that ripped accurately with CD Ripper but report as inaccurate by PerfectTUNES.

Clarification: I'm getting albums that rip with CD Ripper with a mix of tracks : some are accurate, some report secure but nothing in AccurateRip, none are inaccurate, but report in PerfectTUNES as inaccurate. Example:

PerfectTunes result:

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart: Symphonies Nos. 40 & 41
Track 1: Track InAccurate T:\song library\flac\first flac library\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 01.flac
Track 2: Track InAccurate T:\song library\flac\first flac library\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 02.flac
Track 3: Track InAccurate T:\song library\flac\first flac library\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 03.flac
Track 4: Track InAccurate T:\song library\flac\first flac library\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 04.flac
Track 5: Track InAccurate T:\song library\flac\first flac library\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 05.flac
Track 6: AccurateRip Verified Confidence 5, Pressing Offset +639 [ARv1 CRC 8DA83A04] T:\song library\flac\first flac library\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 06.flac
Track 7: AccurateRip Verified Confidence 5, Pressing Offset +639 [ARv1 CRC 145420E5] T:\song library\flac\first flac library\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 07.flac
Track 8: AccurateRip Verified Confidence 4, Pressing Offset +639 [ARv1 CRC 81E3D7C1] T:\song library\flac\first flac library\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 08.flac


CD Ripper log:

dBpoweramp Release 14.3 BETA Digital Audio Extraction Log from Friday, July 20, 2012 10:44

Drive & Settings
----------------

Ripping with drive 'E: [TSSTcorp - CDDVDW TS-L633L ]', Drive offset: 6, Overread Lead-in/out: No
AccurateRip: Active, Using C2: Yes, Cache: 1024 KB, FUA Cache Invalidate: No
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max, Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Bad Sector Re-rip:: Drive Speed: Max, Maximum Re-reads: 100

Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-8 -verify
DSP Effects / Actions: -dspeffect1="ID Tag Processing=-case={qt}0{qt} -exportart={qt}(none){qt} -importart={qt}(none){qt} -maxart={qt}(any){qt} -fromcolonart" -dspeffect2="Move Destination File on Error= -root={qt}[origpath]{qt} -naming={qt}error\[origfilename]{qt}"

Extraction Log
--------------

Track 1: Ripped LBA 0 to 37692 (8:22) in 1:01. Filename: C:\Users\Guest\Music\dBpoweramp files\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart; Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 01.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: 57221383 AccurateRip CRC: C64ED852 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 008-00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108-1]

Track 2: Ripped LBA 37692 to 73390 (7:55) in 0:43. Filename: C:\Users\Guest\Music\dBpoweramp files\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart; Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 02.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: FA00979C AccurateRip CRC: B2EA5362 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 008-00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108-2]

Track 3: Ripped LBA 73390 to 95635 (4:56) in 0:24. Filename: C:\Users\Guest\Music\dBpoweramp files\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart; Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 03.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: F62006A3 AccurateRip CRC: 3A1823D6 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 008-00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108-3]

Track 4: Ripped LBA 95635 to 121750 (5:48) in 0:26. Filename: C:\Users\Guest\Music\dBpoweramp files\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart; Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 04.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: 4016B624 AccurateRip CRC: 0CF3A51C (CRCv2) [DiscID: 008-00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108-4]

Track 5: Ripped LBA 121750 to 156670 (7:45) in 0:33. Filename: C:\Users\Guest\Music\dBpoweramp files\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart; Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 05.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: 2DCCD036 AccurateRip CRC: E7D46F48 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 008-00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108-5]

Track 6: Ripped LBA 156670 to 189797 (7:21) in 0:28. Filename: C:\Users\Guest\Music\dBpoweramp files\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart; Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 06.flac
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 5) [Pass 1]
CRC32: 8DEF3A3B AccurateRip CRC: 8DA83A04 [DiscID: 008-00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108-6]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 5 [CRCv1 8da83a04], Using Pressing Offset +639

Track 7: Ripped LBA 189797 to 211382 (4:47) in 0:17. Filename: C:\Users\Guest\Music\dBpoweramp files\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart; Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 07.flac
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 5) [Pass 1]
CRC32: 54AE500C AccurateRip CRC: 145420E5 [DiscID: 008-00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108-7]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 5 [CRCv1 145420e5], Using Pressing Offset +639

Track 8: Ripped LBA 211382 to 240075 (6:22) in 0:22. Filename: C:\Users\Guest\Music\dBpoweramp files\Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Mozart; Symphony Nos. 40 & 41 - 08.flac
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 4) [Pass 1]
CRC32: DB92049D AccurateRip CRC: 81E3D7C1 [DiscID: 008-00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108-8]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 4 [CRCv1 81e3d7c1], Using Pressing Offset +639

--------------

8 Tracks Ripped: 3 Accurate, 5 Secure

[twit]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

In addition to complete albums that are in fact complete but report as incomplete probably because my tags are not what PerfectTunes is expecting, I'm getting albums that are in fact incomplete because I deleted tracks I didn't want (demo tracks, interviews, etc.), or I couldn't get a track to rip to my satisfaction because of disc damage.

Such albums are currently listed under "albums cannot check", and report the number of tracks it found. It does not report what tracks it thinks are missing, and does not check the tracks that it finds.

Instead, I suggest for such albums that PerfectTunes check the tracks it can, and report exactly what tracks it thinks are missing, and list such albums under the listing of "albums with ripping errors". AccurateRip is done at the track level, and since PerfectTunes thinks it matched such albums to something in its database, I'd like it to check what it can.

Similarly, for certain albums with tracks that I cannot get to rip to my satisfaction, sometimes I burst rip those tracks, which I guess means such tracks may not have the right track length. Rather than list the entire album under "albums cannot check" and just state "cannot check: track length different than CD Original", I'd prefer it to list such albums under "albums with ripping errors", check the tracks it can, and show what tracks it cannot check and the reason for it, if any.

Thanks.

[Spoon]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

That is quite a strange case - with CD ripper you can question, is AR right, or is your CD drive wrong, or your disc has a manufacturing error, one we have not really explored before.

PerfectTUNES does not have the luxury of knowing what is happening, it sees 3 tracks verifying and 5 which do not, the 3 which verify have a good confidence (5, so there is no chance of a conflict in the database, where as conf of 1 or 2 two users could conflict on a track and it be excluded), I stand by PerfectTUNEs recommendation that there is an error somewhere.

[Spoon]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

>and does not check the tracks that it finds.

That will come later, because to verify track 3, you might need the end of track 2 or the beginning of track 4, we intend to pull this data from AudioSAFE and allow single track verification.

[twit]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

That is quite a strange case - with CD ripper you can question, is AR right, or is your CD drive wrong, or your disc has a manufacturing error, one we have not really explored before.

PerfectTUNES does not have the luxury of knowing what is happening, it sees 3 tracks verifying and 5 which do not, the 3 which verify have a good confidence (5, so there is no chance of a conflict in the database, where as conf of 1 or 2 two users could conflict on a track and it be excluded), I stand by PerfectTUNEs recommendation that there is an error somewhere.

I know you want to keep the reporting of PerfectTunes simple, but it would be interesting to know with what confidence PerfectTunes has determined these tracks are inaccurate. I don't know much about how all of this works, but it seems less related to my CD drive and disc conditions, and more about why CD Ripper can't match the tracks to something in the AccurateRip database, but PerfectTunes can. That's based on my understanding that "secure" in this case means "track looks OK (no ripping errors), but can't find anything in AccurateRip to compare it to", and "inaccurate" means "found your track in the database, and yours does not match".

[Spoon]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

The confidence is the same as the verified tracks, so in the 5 range.

[twit]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

After comparing with Cuetools' AR result:

[CUETools log; Date: 7/20/2012 6:15:26 PM; Version: 2.1.4]
[AccurateRip ID: 00112ff7-00710647-5e0c8108] found.
Track [ CRC | V2 ] Status
01 [6c210ac8|c64ed852] (0+0/5) No match
02 [d0eb2e2f|b2ea5362] (0+0/5) No match
03 [473cb431|3a1823d6] (0+0/5) No match
04 [cf112a44|0cf3a51c] (0+0/5) No match
05 [e2cc14df|e7d46f48] (0+0/5) No match
06 [0537761f|8d492233] (0+0/5) No match
07 [296a829c|051350ef] (0+0/5) No match
08 [f5f9155c|52d8bdb6] (0+0/4) No match
Offsetted by 639:
01 [83cd7019] (0/5) No match (V2 was not tested)
02 [dd277790] (0/5) No match (V2 was not tested)
03 [fca1be34] (0/5) No match (V2 was not tested)
04 [e361ffbd] (0/5) No match (V2 was not tested)
05 [2f25f0d6] (0/5) No match (V2 was not tested)
06 [8da83a04] (5/5) Accurately ripped
07 [145420e5] (5/5) Accurately ripped
08 [81e3d7c1] (4/4) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32 ] [W/O NULL]
-- 51.4 [71EACAAA] [EEE76D6D]
01 39.6 [57221383] [A91FCDEC]
02 28.1 [FA00979C] [F811D0C3]
03 45.0 [F62006A3] [847A3DAD]
04 44.3 [4016B624] [5C5CC650]
05 51.4 [2DCCD036] [789D5625]
06 37.5 [8DEF3A3B] [FE47EDA7]
07 43.7 [54AE500C] [91D43DC3]
08 45.0 [DB92049D] [3EF92CFB]

I'm thinking that my disc is not in the AR1 database, and is in the AR2 database. Also thinking that CD Ripper only checked the AR1 database, and PerfectTUNES checked the AR2 database. If that's correct, why doesn't CD Ripper also check the AR2 database?

[Spoon]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

>AccurateRip Verified Confidence 4 [CRCv1 81e3d7c1], Using Pressing Offset +639

No it is only in AR1 database, AR2 has no match (there is something there for AR2 but it is not your disc), CD ripper would have checked it and determined there is no match (even at offset level) so it is not reported.

[shelby67]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

How can I find Beta 6J that is referenced? I downloaded the from the link and it shows 6C when installed.

Thanks
Paul

[Porcus]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

That's based on my understanding that "secure" in this case means "track looks OK (no ripping errors), but can't find anything in AccurateRip to compare it to", and "inaccurate" means "found your track in the database, and yours does not match".

Not PerfectTunes specific, but:
I can only guess that this "Inaccurate" term was chosen at a time when one wasn't aware of the crosspressing offset issue. For releases with different pressings, and software without crosspress-checking (like, older dBpoweramp ... I did the bulk of my ripping four years ago), then this "Inaccurate" is ... well, an inaccurate description. Sure, if you got 9 tracks Accurate (5) and one track Inaccurate (4), then you would assume yours were wrong. But if all tracks were Inaccurate (5) but Secure, then the "Inaccurate (5)" statement wouldn't be very informative (that is, you have to know that it doesn't mean what it suggests). With crosspressing verification, though, "Inaccurate" is closer to truth.

[Spoon]

Re: PerfectTUNES discussion

6J was a typo, it is 6C