Volume normalizing loose tracks.

[Sylvester]

Hello all,

I am new to the forums and this is my first post.

I have read a lot of threads and learned a lot so far. Something I haven't come across yet though is the following...

I have a bunch of loose mp3 tracks that I have aquired, from here and there, so I have no idea what has been done to them so far and whether or not that matters.

If I want to volume normalize them, using dbpa, does it matter if they have been done before?

Thanks for any help you may provide.

[Spoon]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

What is your player? if it is replaygain compatible you can use that.

[Sylvester]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

Thank you for such a speedy reply.

Current players are home AVR through NAS, iPod and car but who knows what may be next. I know the AVR and car are not RG compatible, I don't know about the iPod.

I will be keeping an original copy of them and only want one more with some sort of normalizing applied to them.

Thanks.

[garym]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

Thank you for such a speedy reply.

Current players are home AVR through NAS, iPod and car but who knows what may be next. I know the AVR and car are not RG compatible, I don't know about the iPod.

I will be keeping an original copy of them and only want one more with some sort of normalizing applied to them.

Thanks.

Ipod uses itunes "soundcheck" tag. One can create a soundcheck tag from RG tag (dbpa will do this automatically if you tick this option in RG settings). It sounds to me like you should keep originals, but create new versions where you use dbpa and "batch convert" using RG and RG(apply) utility codecs to (1) add RG tags (album, track, or both, along with soundcheck values for ipod) and (2) use the ReplayGain (apply) DSP to actually change the audio to normalize the files. This way they weill be volume normalized when you play on any player (doesn't need to be RG aware).

[Sylvester]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

Ipod uses itunes "soundcheck" tag. One can create a soundcheck tag from RG tag (dbpa will do this automatically if you tick this option in RG settings). It sounds to me like you should keep originals, but create new versions where you use dbpa and "batch convert" using RG and RG(apply) utility codecs to (1) add RG tags (album, track, or both, along with soundcheck values for ipod) and (2) use the ReplayGain (apply) DSP to actually change the audio to normalize the files. This way they weill be volume normalized when you play on any player (doesn't need to be RG aware).

Thank you so much for your response, I greatly appreciate it.

That is exactly how I will be approaching this, once I figure out all the details to do so.

I have been reading the threads in the batch converter, for days now, to find out exactly how to do this but I am still searching for some of the details. I get a little detail from different posts so it is taking some time to put it all together. I find that the more I read the more questions that arise so then I have to find those answers too. I am planning to post in that thread for some of the missing details if I can't find them.

In the meantime, in my original post, I was wondering about the situation of having mp3 tracks that I do not know the origin of. I can check their Tag info with dbpa's Edit-Tag feature in windows explorer but a) can I tell if they have already been permanently audio-altered by some sort of RG Applied or volume normalizing? and b) if you can't what will happen if it is done again on the file?

Thanks, Sylvester

[garym]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

Thank you so much for your response, I greatly appreciate it.

That is exactly how I will be approaching this, once I figure out all the details to do so.

I have been reading the threads in the batch converter, for days now, to find out exactly how to do this but I am still searching for some of the details. I get a little detail from different posts so it is taking some time to put it all together. I find that the more I read the more questions that arise so then I have to find those answers too. I am planning to post in that thread for some of the missing details if I can't find them.

In the meantime, in my original post, I was wondering about the situation of having mp3 tracks that I do not know the origin of. I can check their Tag info with dbpa's Edit-Tag feature in windows explorer but a) can I tell if they have already been permanently audio-altered by some sort of RG Applied or volume normalizing? and b) if you can't what will happen if it is done again on the file?

Thanks, Sylvester

as far as I know there is no way to tell whether the audio of an mp3 has been permanently altered (already) with volume normalization. You'd need to have the original CD or a copy of what you are sure is the original mp3 file ripped from the CD. The good news, it that even if an mp3 file has been previously modified by volume normalization of some sort, redoing this with dbpa is unlikely to result in any audible degradation.

All in all, this is pretty simple for you. Select all the stray mp3 files, right click, open dbpa batch converter, "convert to" the dsp Replay Gain, click OK, and a few minutes later you're done adding RG tags. Then do the same thing except batch convert to ReplayGain (apply).

[Sylvester]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

as far as I know there is no way to tell whether the audio of an mp3 has been permanently altered (already) with volume normalization. You'd need to have the original CD or a copy of what you are sure is the original mp3 file ripped from the CD. The good news, it that even if an mp3 file has been previously modified by volume normalization of some sort, redoing this with dbpa is unlikely to result in any audible degradation.

All in all, this is pretty simple for you. Select all the stray mp3 files, right click, open dbpa batch converter, "convert to" the dsp Replay Gain, click OK, and a few minutes later you're done adding RG tags. Then do the same thing except batch convert to ReplayGain (apply).

Thanks again for the quick replies, I can't believe you guys can keep up with the onslaught of questions.

That is great to know that the re-normalizing of a file won't degrade audio.

As far as the converting instructions go, this is where I struggle as a newbie and get confused with the terminology. With some of the Encoding and DSP applications having the same name, reading the posts/threads can be very confusing. I am sure that once familiar with the software I will be able to assume what is meant by the writers. I also understand (perhaps mistakenly) it depends on the file type as to how the same operation may need to be done differently.

In your instructions you said...

"convert to the dsp Replay Gain". I get this and what it will do. Thank you for stating DSP. I am assuming that I leave the Encoder set to mp3 Lame. Whereas, I believe I read, if doing the same for FLAC files I set the Encoder for Replay Gain and don't apply any DSP. Is that correct and if so, why?


In the next stage of your instructions you said...
"Then do the same thing except batch convert to ReplayGain (apply)". I assuming this is a DSP because I don't have an encoder by that name, and that I leave the Encoder on mp3 Lame. Now to do this to a (non-archival) set of FLAC files, I believe I use this same DSP but what do I set the Encoder to?

Do I understand correctly, from my readings, (for my above mp3's anyway) that I could skip both of the above steps and do the same thing by using the Volume Normalize DSP? What about for FLAC files?
Would the final difference be just the lack of RG tags for future use?

If you made it this far, thank you very much for your patience, I tend to ramble and sweat the details (some say OCD, my friends say anal). So much to learn. I am trying to read as many posts as possible so I don't have to bother you guys with the same old boring questions.

Thanks, Sylvester

[garym]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

Thanks again for the quick replies, I can't believe you guys can keep up with the onslaught of questions.

That is great to know that the re-normalizing of a file won't degrade audio.

As far as the converting instructions go, this is where I struggle as a newbie and get confused with the terminology. With some of the Encoding and DSP applications having the same name, reading the posts/threads can be very confusing. I am sure that once familiar with the software I will be able to assume what is meant by the writers. I also understand (perhaps mistakenly) it depends on the file type as to how the same operation may need to be done differently.

In your instructions you said...

"convert to the dsp Replay Gain". I get this and what it will do. Thank you for stating DSP. I am assuming that I leave the Encoder set to mp3 Lame. Whereas, I believe I read, if doing the same for FLAC files I set the Encoder for Replay Gain and don't apply any DSP. Is that correct and if so, why?


In the next stage of your instructions you said...
"Then do the same thing except batch convert to ReplayGain (apply)". I assuming this is a DSP because I don't have an encoder by that name, and that I leave the Encoder on mp3 Lame. Now to do this to a (non-archival) set of FLAC files, I believe I use this same DSP but what do I set the Encoder to?

Do I understand correctly, from my readings, (for my above mp3's anyway) that I could skip both of the above steps and do the same thing by using the Volume Normalize DSP? What about for FLAC files?
Would the final difference be just the lack of RG tags for future use?

If you made it this far, thank you very much for your patience, I tend to ramble and sweat the details (some say OCD, my friends say anal). So much to learn. I am trying to read as many posts as possible so I don't have to bother you guys with the same old boring questions.

Thanks, Sylvester

No, you don't leave encoder set to LAME or FLAC. This would reconvert the audio to that format. That's not what you want to do. You want to just do volume normalization. So when you do the CONVERT TO in batch conversion, instead of choosing mp3 lame, you choose the utility codec of "ReplayGain" or "Replaygain (apply)" or "volume normalize". (you may need to install those utility codecs from "codec central" page (note top of this forum page). It may be that volume normalize does everything you want to. Read about it in the instructions (I only add RG tags and don't change my audio at all).

Also I said the modification to your files from doing permanent volume normalization shouldn't produce any *audible* degradation. Of course, it does change the bits, so it does "degrade" the audio in the file. Whether such degradation is audible is an entirely different question. My point is that it is unlikely to be audible. And in any case, that's why you want to save the original files as well.

edit: it appears you want to use the "convert to" volume normalize utility codec. But I'm not 100% sure. Seems that "volume normalize" is only a DSP. I don't see it in my "convert to" options. I know for sure that you can (1) convert to ReplayGain (to just add RG tags) then (2) convert to "ReplayGain (apply) to permanently change the audio.) Best way to understand things is to play around a bit with the software and experiment. It makes more sense when you see the software in action. You can't break anything. You're using copies of your original files anyhow, correct. Also, once you do the ReplayGain(apply) you do NOT want the itunes soundcheck value to be written to those files (otherwise the ipod will do an *additional* adjustment using the soundcheck value.)

See:
https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?34473-Replay-Gain-vs-Volume-Normalize-DSP-s&highlight=volume+normalize

see this too:
https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthr...lume+normalize

[mville]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

edit: it appears you want to use the "convert to" volume normalize utility codec. See:
https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?34473-Replay-Gain-vs-Volume-Normalize-DSP-s&highlight=volume+normalize

see this too:
https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthr...lume+normalize

garym, where is the volume normalize utility codec downloaded from, I can't find it?

[garym]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

garym, where is the volume normalize utility codec downloaded from, I can't find it?

I can't either. Seems to be already included in the various DSPs. When I go to batch convert, I can only see "ReplayGain" utility codec. But in the DSPs on the conversion page, I can select either "volume normalize" or "replaygain(apply)".

I suspect the actual step would be:

1. batch convert to utility codec "Replaygain" (ie, use this in the dropdown option rather than FLAC or mp3 lame). Then in the DSP section of the the conversion page, add either "volume normalize" or "replaygain(apply)" to do the permanent change to audio volume part of the conversion.

[Sylvester]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

I can't either. Seems to be already included in the various DSPs. When I go to batch convert, I can only see "ReplayGain" utility codec. But in the DSPs on the conversion page, I can select either "volume normalize" or "replaygain(apply)".

I suspect the actual step would be:

1. batch convert to utility codec "Replaygain" (ie, use this in the dropdown option rather than FLAC or mp3 lame). Then in the DSP section of the the conversion page, add either "volume normalize" or "replaygain(apply)" to do the permanent change to audio volume part of the conversion.

Mville,
You beat me to the same question.

Garym,
Thanks for clarifying. I realize you don't use these options so thanks for helping out.

I have been playing with the software but like you said it is hard to tell if the changes have taken effect without getting into other software.

So, are you now saying I can add the RG tags and apply them in one step?

Regarding Volume Normalize, from what I read l don't think I need RG tags, can you confirm this? If this is the case, is it OK to use this if there are RG tags in some of the files?

I ask all this now, while I have your expertise, so I will know for the future.

Thanks, Sylvester

[garym]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

Mville,
You beat me to the same question.

Garym,
Thanks for clarifying. I realize you don't use these options so thanks for helping out.

I have been playing with the software but like you said it is hard to tell if the changes have taken effect without getting into other software.

So, are you now saying I can add the RG tags and apply them in one step?

Regarding Volume Normalize, from what I read l don't think I need RG tags, can you confirm this? If this is the case, is it OK to use this if there are RG tags in some of the files?

I ask all this now, while I have your expertise, so I will know for the future.

Thanks, Sylvester

regarding adding RG tags then applying in one step, it appears that is true. I would only know if I tested it. Easy enough to do. Try it. Yes, probably best to delete the RG tags or any itunes soundcheck values after you volume normalize. If they are still there, then a RG tag aware player will further adjust your volume. I'd just do the volume normalization on all the files, then batch delete the RG tags from the files.

[garym]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

I tried playing with this. Seems you do have to select a re-encoding codec (lame or flac etc). As I think about it, I can see why that has to happen...after all the audio is being rewritten. Given this, here's what worked for me:

1. in dbpa "Batch Converter" select the file folders containing the originals or copies of the files I want to permanently change the audio via volume normalization.
2. Convert to: mp3 lame (for mp3 files, or FLAC for flac files); Choose settings (e.g., mp3 lame, V0, V1, V2, etc.)
3. in DSP section of window, add the DSP "ID TAG PROCESSING", in its settings, select the DELETION tab. Then click on single tag and enter "replaygain_track_gain", then click single tag, enter "replaygain_album_gain", then single tag and enter "Comment iTunNorm" (all of these without the " ")
4. Also in DSP section of window add the DSP "volume normalize", and in its settings select "EBU R128 (track gain)"
5. select the location where you want these new files to end up in the "Output to" box (if you select the current location your files will be overwritten...I'd select a different location).
6. Bottom right click "Convert'

When done all these files will end up in the new location you selected, and will be permanently volume normalized (track gain) and all RG tags and Soundcheck tags will be removed from the files.

[Sylvester]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

garym,

Yes, you see what was confusing me. I was sure I had read that you don't re-encode in this case.

I have also learned that whenever you re-encode, your new files loose any RG tags that were there (I would assume same for soundcheck tags) so it looks like you just set the Encoder according to your file type, set its options as desired and add the Volume Normalize DSP.

OK then problem solved, thanks for all your help.

Sylvester

[garym]

Re: Volume normalizing loose tracks.

garym,

Yes, you see what was confusing me. I was sure I had read that you don't re-encode in this case.

I have also learned that whenever you re-encode, your new files loose any RG tags that were there (I would assume same for soundcheck tags) so it looks like you just set the Encoder according to your file type, set its options as desired and add the Volume Normalize DSP.

OK then problem solved, thanks for all your help.

Sylvester

good point. the re-encoding would not have RG or soundcheck values unless DSPs added to create those tags as part of re-encoding.