Naming classical music

[garym]

Re: Naming classical music

better yet, you're likely to have lots of multidisk albums, so you should add the Disc Number tag when ripping, even if only 1 disk, then use this:

[IFCOMP]Various Artists\[album]\[disc].[track] - [title][][IF!COMP][composer]\[album] - [conductor]\[disc].[track] - [title][]

[garym]

Re: Naming classical music

one more. This one uses conductor if available, but if not, then it uses artist instead.

[IFCOMP]Various Artists\[album]\[disc].[track] - [title][][IF!COMP][IFVALUE]composer,[composer],[artist][]\[album] - [conductor]\[disc].[track] - [title][]

[nicholson2002]

Re: Naming classical music

Thanks Gary, I appreciate your help but I think I'm going backwards.

I've tried all three of your suggested Namings and I cannot get a folder structure out of any of them. All I get are four files:

(1) Douglas Bostock - Cowen; Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The idyllic'.txt
(2) Folder.jpg
(3) Various Artists\Cowen; Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The idyllic'\01 - Symphony No. 6 in E major ("The Idyllic"); 1. Allegro vivace - piu&*768; mosso - poco piu&*768; risoluto - poco piu&*768; animato.flac
(4) Various Artists\Cowen; Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The idyllic'\02 - Symphony No. 6 in E major ("The Idyllic"); 2. Allegro scherzando - poco tranquillo.flac

The CD I am ripping actually has two symphonies on it but I want to rip them one at a time so I will end up with all of his works (regardless of size) in their own separate folder. In ripping them, of course, I am obliged to do two separate runs having ensured that the numbering is correct. I mention this as I'm not sure it isn't causing my inability of getting your Naming to work (although I don't really know how it could?)

Has it got something to do with the backslash?

I'm lost.

[garym]

Re: Naming classical music

Thanks Gary, I appreciate your help but I think I'm going backwards.

I've tried all three of your suggested Namings and I cannot get a folder structure out of any of them. All I get are four files:

(1) Douglas Bostock - Cowen; Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The idyllic'.txt
(2) Folder.jpg
(3) Various Artists\Cowen; Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The idyllic'\01 - Symphony No. 6 in E major ("The Idyllic"); 1. Allegro vivace - piu&*768; mosso - poco piu&*768; risoluto - poco piu&*768; animato.flac
(4) Various Artists\Cowen; Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The idyllic'\02 - Symphony No. 6 in E major ("The Idyllic"); 2. Allegro scherzando - poco tranquillo.flac

The CD I am ripping actually has two symphonies on it but I want to rip them one at a time so I will end up with all of his works (regardless of size) in their own separate folder. In ripping them, of course, I am obliged to do two separate runs having ensured that the numbering is correct. I mention this as I'm not sure it isn't causing my inability of getting your Naming to work (although I don't really know how it could?)

Has it got something to do with the backslash?

I'm lost.

very odd. Are you saying, for example, that folder.jpg ends up in its own folder? Also seems odd that it is using a combination of "complilation (various artists) and using composer all at the same time. It should use one or the other.

To simplify, just use the very last option I posted. It works for me. What do you have entered for "path" above the naming string? The string setup should look like this when you click on SET next to naming (see pic):


can you post a screen shot of what your setting screen looks like (your version of above). Post one with "compilation" ticked and one without it ticked.
p.s. I'll be away from the computer until Monday so may not respond until then. Hopefully mville can help as well. And again, screen shots are very helpful for us to see what you see. If you don't know hwo to do screen shots, just google "creating screen shots on Mac" or something like that. (and to post a screen shot, make sure you select "go advanced" underneath the reply box and then click on the icon at top of reply box that looks like a picture. this gives you the option of uploading a file (screenshot).

[nicholson2002]

Re: Naming classical music

I hope this works. I've taken 3 screen shots.

(1) a screen shot of my Finder, using your naming. It shows five files (two more than previously because I included the full, four movements of the symphony).

(2) a screen shot of my naming. It remains the same if I tick Compilation. In reality, I had to make several changes to the Artist, Album Artist, Album and Composer in order to get it as I wanted it. This shows how dBpa proposes to handle the naming.

(3) a screen shot of how your naming is showing up for me.

Thanks again for your help on this, I hope you can make some sense out of it all.

[garym]

Re: Naming classical music

I hope this works. I've taken 3 screen shots.

(1) a screen shot of my Finder, using your naming. It shows five files (two more than previously because I included the full, four movements of the symphony).

(2) a screen shot of my naming. It remains the same if I tick Compilation. In reality, I had to make several changes to the Artist, Album Artist, Album and Composer in order to get it as I wanted it. This shows how dBpa proposes to handle the naming.

(3) a screen shot of how your naming is showing up for me.

Thanks again for your help on this, I hope you can make some sense out of it all.

Yes, something is off for sure. is the value of the COMPILATION tag "1" for this album?
also, Try backslashes instead of forward slashes in your johns naming example.

[nicholson2002]

Re: Naming classical music

If I replace / wth \ I get the same as I did with your naming, ie no folders, just a few files as indicated previously.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'the COMPILIATION tag "1" for this album'. It doesn't seem to make any difference if I tick the Compiliation box or not. Is that what you mean or am I way off?

[garym]

Re: Naming classical music

If I replace / wth \ I get the same as I did with your naming, ie no folders, just a few files as indicated previously.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'the COMPILIATION tag "1" for this album'. It doesn't seem to make any difference if I tick the Compiliation box or not. Is that what you mean or am I way off?

COMPILATION is a metadata tag. Shouldn't exist for noncompilations. But should exist with a value of 1 if an album has that box ticked when ripping. You are using the existence of this tag as an option in your naming string.

edit. Unless MAC version is different, backslash creates subdirectories.

[nicholson2002]

Re: Naming classical music

Well, I'm not ticking the compilation box so I guess it doesn't exist. Specifically, where would I find it?

dBpa for Macs may be different as the backslash is not creating sub directories. The forward slash appears to create sub directories though. Indeed, the naming that I have been using creates the exact directories I want, ie Media/Music/Conductor/Work/Conductor-Orchestra/title.flac. The only real problem that I have is how I can change the naming so I can get rid of some of the surplus information I have previously identified.

[mville]

Re: Naming classical music

Cataloging music files using tags originated with the use of the Album Title, Album Artist, (and track) Artist, Title and Composer tags, which worked well for most Rock/Pop CDs, but is no good for Classical Music.

There is no de facto standard for tagging Classical Music, so users need to decide what tags you want to use to catalog classical CDs e.g. whether you use Composer, Conductor, Orchestra, Chorus, Artist or a combination of these tags.

You need to insert your CD and BEFORE ripping, check all the tags are populated with the data you desire and if not, you have to manually edit and/or add the tags. DO NOT assume that the data pulled from the online providers populates the tags you wish to use or that the data is accurate. Sadly, I find this is especially true in the case of classical music CDs.

Based on this thread, I suggest for your CD (which is not a simple start point as I notice it contains 2 Symphonies on 1 CD, so let's just work on the first Symphony, Tracks 1-4)
For all 4 tracks populate (using the Tags Panel located Bottom Centre of CDRipper Main Window):
Album = Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The Idyllic'
Composer = Frederic Cowen
ComposerSort = Cowen, Frederic
Conductor = Douglas Bostock
ConductorSort = Bostock, Douglas
Orchestra = Aahrus Symphony Orchestra

It is unclear for classical music what the Album Artist and Artist tags should contain. As stated earlier, there is NO standard and users have to make a choice here. Some users will populate Artist with the Composer, some will use a combination of Conductor, Orchestra and Chorus and is down to personal choice. The following is a multi-value example using Conductor and Orchestra:
Artist = Douglas Bostock; Aahrus Symphony Orchestra
Artist Sort - Bostock, Douglas; Aahrus Symphony Orchestra

Finally, for each track (1-4) populate Title as follows:
Title = I. Allegro Vivace
Title = II. Allegro Scherzando
Title = III. Adagio, Molto Tranquillo
Title = IV. Finale. Molto Vivace

In your Naming string you can change Composer with ComposerSort i.e. instead of the top-level folder being named Frederic Cowen, it will be named Cowen, Frederic, which is my preferred choice.

What I suggest here is by no means complete and is to be considered as a guide only. Also, recent changes in iTunes have seen the inclusion of new classical music tags such as Work Name, Movement Name and Movement Number (which I have yet to implement) and I have ignored in this discussion as not to further confuse the issues mentioned here.

[nicholson2002]

Re: Naming classical music

Thanks mville, your help is much appreciated. I am reconciled to the fact that it isn't going to be as easy as I may have hoped.

I will certainly have another look at iTunes. As well as my problems with naming in dBpa, I've just discovered that Plex only wants to deal with the standard Artist/Album/Track format and will revert to that whenever it can eg yesterday I converted some files from FLAC to AIFF because of iTunes and all my manually set metadata went out the window in Plex. Very frustrating.

Cheers

[nicholson2002]

Re: Naming classical music

In your Naming string you can change Composer with ComposerSort i.e. instead of the top-level folder being named Frederic Cowen, it will be named Cowen, Frederic, which is my preferred choice.
.

That is exactly what I want to do as well. Would you humour me and give me 'child level' instructions on how to set this up? I can't work it out for the life of me and my Google searches aren't helping. Incidentally, I'm using dBpa for Mac - I don't know whether that is incidental in my inability to do things that sound very simple.

[mville]

Re: Naming classical music

I've just discovered that Plex only wants to deal with the standard Artist/Album/Track format and will revert to that whenever it can eg yesterday I converted some files from FLAC to AIFF because of iTunes and all my manually set metadata went out the window in Plex.

I do not know what Plex is. I assume it is some sort of player/server. If you are saying that Plex does not support classical tags like Composer, Conductor, Orchestra etc. I suggest you use a player that does.

[mville]

Re: Naming classical music

That is exactly what I want to do as well. Would you humour me and give me 'child level' instructions on how to set this up?

I thought I already had in my post no. 25.

First, can you post your current naming string?

Second, do you know how to edit the tags in CDRipper, before ripping?

[garym]

Re: Naming classical music

mville has provided very useful example/info. study that carefully. It's hard to tell from your posts, but please let us know whether you understand how to edit tags at the time of ripping (or afterwards). This is critical as much of what you want to do requires the tags to be correct, and this is rarely true without manual intervention for classical music. mville and I can relate, as we understand that ripping is easy but getting one's tags and file orgainzation the way one wants is hard! (By the way, you mention having to rip twice to get what you want; do you realize you can rip once and then change the tags and naming/directories to anything you want after the fact.

If you want this:

Media/Music/Composer/Work/Conductor-Orchestra/title.flac

Just make sure the tag fields have EXACTLY the contents you want, then the naming is just a matter of ordering the listing using tag info. For example, if this is your CD,

Album = Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The Idyllic'
Composer = Frederic Cowen
ComposerSort = Cowen, Frederic
Conductor = Douglas Bostock
ConductorSort = Bostock, Douglas
Orchestra = Aahrus Symphony Orchestra
Title = I. Allegro Vivace
Title = II. Allegro Scherzando
Title = III. Adagio, Molto Tranquillo

naming:

path: Media/Music
naming string:

[composersort]/[album]/[conductor]-[orchestra]/[title]

this will give you:

Media/Music/Cowen, Frederic/Symphony No. 6 in E major 'The Idyllic'/Douglas Bostock-Aahrus Symphony Orchestra/I. Allegro Vivace.flac

I'd get things working basically first before I started adding things to deal with complilations, various artists, etc. Keep in mind that this may be easier done by simply having different saved ripping profiles in dbpa to deal with different types of CDs (classical, with info, classical compilations, pop, etc.).

You may be able to create a WORK tag in dbpa and use that instead of album (album title).

Finally, you will also discover that some servers and players can handle good tags and some are very basic and limited. PLEX is great for movies, but I've never thought it very good for music. If you are stuck with a upnp/dlna player (which is too bad as they tend to be very limited in terms of what they can handle), then you should look at ASSET as a upnp/dlna server (by the maker of dbpa). If you can move away from upnp/dlna players then you have lots of good options. But that's a different topic.