Rip from USB turntable

[Old Man]

OK. I give up. You're my only hope.

I've been using dbPoweramp CD Ripper to create a flac library of my cds. It's gone well, and I'm ready to start ripping my vinyl library. I have seen references about using dbPoweramp to rip from vinyl, but I can't find a way to do it.

I have a turntable with a USB connection hooked up to my computer. CD Ripper just keeps looking for something in the CD drive, and I don't see a way to make it look elsewhere. Music Converter just wants me to point it to a file.

I'm aware that there are issues when ripping from LPs, such as pops and splitting out tracks, but right now I'm stuck at even getting the turntable recognized as the device with the music on it.

Boy, I feel stupid.

[mville]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

dBpoweramp doesn't rip vinyl records.

Where have you seen references about using dbPoweramp to rip from vinyl?

Futhermore, why do you even want to digitize your vinyl?

[Wayne]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

An early version of dBpoweramp used to have the ability to record/convert sound input via the auxiliary/line in. However that hasn't been available for many years now and is no longer available.

What you need is some software that allows you to record sound from your line in socket on your PC. Examples are Audacity, Goldwave and WaveRepair.

[schmidj]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

He's using a USB turntable, not line in. But I suspect most editing software allows the selection of the USB audio input when it is plugged in. You'll have to record the audio as a file, split the file into tracks, trim the beginning and end of each track, possibly use declicking and other plug-ins to remove scratch clicks, possibly adjust the levels (although you can do that from within dBPoweramp later.) Then save the files. If your audio editing software allows you to save in the desired format (FLAC, mp3, m4a, etc. fine. Otherwise use the dBPoweramp music converter to get the files in the format you want. Then enter the metadata (title, artist, album title, etc). You can either do that by right-clicking on the file (or a bunch of them in a directory), or by using metadata editing software like mp3tag.

Yes, it is time consuming work, but if you are like me, you'll listen to the record a lot more once it is digitized, and you can put it on a smart phone to listen to in your car through bluetooth, or with headphones.

Mville, I don't throw out the vinyl after converting, but I prefer the convenience of having it on my server, and I listen a lot while driving. Can't do that natively with vinyl.

[mville]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

Mville, I don't throw out the vinyl after converting, but I prefer the convenience of having it on my server, and I listen a lot while driving. Can't do that natively with vinyl.

Understood, but unless you have decent analog-to-digital converters in your PC, IMO, it won't sound any good. Also, the whole process is very labour intensive. IMO, just obtain the CD on ebay/Amazon and rip it in CDRipper. It's a lot easier and in most cases (because of the a/d converters) will sound a lot better.

I suppose one might want to rip vinyl only releases, where no CD exists, but still.

[schmidj]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

Well, my MOTU box sounds pretty good, even though it is 10 years old and has been recapped once already. I use it for music editing so I hope it is decent. Most analog to digital converter chips are pretty decent these days, although the implementations sometimes fail, particularly on the analog side. I suspect my analog to digital conversion is pretty much equal to that of the record company who converts the analog master to generate a digital master for the CD. With the exception of electronic instruments which are natively digital, all music has to be converted from analog to digital at some point.

If a decent CD copy of my analog records is available at a reasonable price I'll buy it, as I do recognize the value of my time, and yes transferring is time consuming. But most of my collection is older vinyl (and shellac) of older Calypso and steelband, some African. Only a minuscule amount has ever been re-released on CD. Most of the record companies are defunct, the ownership of the master recordings is unknown, the rights issue is sometimes contentious. I regularly get requests to transfer old items to digital for researchers in this genre. Also, many of the transfers out there, including the Smithsonian ones of the Cook collection, were direct transfers from disc without any restoration. Now, they have their reasons, sometimes philosophical, sometimes just carelessness, but I like my music without pops and clicks from scratches. I don't overdue restoration, but some degree of it makes, at least for me, a more pleasant listening experience. Also don't forget, I bought many of these records used, they are decades old, and many people weren't particularly careful how they handled them before I got them.

[mville]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

Well, my MOTU box sounds pretty good, even though it is 10 years old and has been recapped once already. I use it for music editing so I hope it is decent. Most analog to digital converter chips are pretty decent these days, although the implementations sometimes fail, particularly on the analog side. I suspect my analog to digital conversion is pretty much equal to that of the record company who converts the analog master to generate a digital master for the CD. With the exception of electronic instruments which are natively digital, all music has to be converted from analog to digital at some point.

Record Companies don't get involved. They leave mastering to sound engineers/producers/artists that use hi-end professional equipment at professional mastering studios. I don't know about your MOTU box, but, unless it is very expensive, I doubt very much that it is equal to anything you'll find in a pro mastering studio.

Having said all that though, if you think the MOTU box sounds pretty good, then that is probably good enough.

[Old Man]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

An early version of dBpoweramp used to have the ability to record/convert sound input via the auxiliary/line in. However that hasn't been available for many years now and is no longer available.

What you need is some software that allows you to record sound from your line in socket on your PC. Examples are Audacity, Goldwave and WaveRepair.

Thanks, Wayne. The old references I found mentioned using the aux input, and also an additional software module. The turntable came with Sony Sound Forge Audio Studio 9LE. I haven't even loaded it yet, because I wanted to pursue using dbPoweramp first. So I guess I'll be installing some new software.

[Old Man]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

You'll have to record the audio as a file, split the file into tracks, trim the beginning and end of each track, possibly use declicking and other plug-ins to remove scratch clicks, possibly adjust the levels (although you can do that from within dBPoweramp later.) ...

Yes, it is time consuming work, but if you are like me, you'll listen to the record a lot more once it is digitized, and you can put it on a smart phone to listen to in your car through bluetooth, or with headphones.

Thanks, schmidj, for describing the process I'm getting into. I realize that it's time consuming work, but I'm retired and building my music library has become a bit of a hobby for me. Additionally, like you, I value the easy availability of the digitized music.

[Old Man]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

Futhermore, why do you even want to digitize your vinyl?

Understood, but unless you have decent analog-to-digital converters in your PC, IMO, it won't sound any good. Also, the whole process is very labour intensive. IMO, just obtain the CD on ebay/Amazon and rip it in CDRipper. It's a lot easier and in most cases (because of the a/d converters) will sound a lot better.

I suppose one might want to rip vinyl only releases, where no CD exists, but still.

Hmmmm. mville, since you took the time to respond to me, I figure you're trying to help. Nevertheless, I must say that I get the feeling that you are -- as the phrase goes -- looking down your nose at me. "Furthermore, why do you even want to digitize your vinyl?" Is such a tone of voice really necessary, with it's implication that digitizing a vinyl collection is the effort of a moron?

Also, your opinion on what an analog-to-digital conversion would sound like carries several biases with it, not the least of which speaks to the physical hearing ability of the listener.

Finally, I find your acknowledgement that one might wish to rip vinyl "where no CD exists" turned patronizing by your addition of "but still."

Perhaps this is just my provincial take on British parlance, and since I figure you're trying to help, let me make a few comments.

I am not an audiophile. My threshold for an acceptable audio experience is as varied as the environs in which I listen to music: tinny and blaring is quite an acceptable experience at times.

I don't want so much to digitize what are analog sounds so much as I just want to collect the music someplace I will be able to listen to it easily. Digitization just happens to be the means for that. I don't appreciate listening to a record any more than a CD or streaming; all of those modes are far from my favorite method: live music. After all, isn't music supposed to be so much more than just the transcribed (or recorded) notes? I find all recordings pale in the face of (memory of?) live performances.

It has been noted that my endevor will consume a great deal of time and effort. OK. I'm retired and have the time; such an effort will reward me when I listen to it in so many places. I am not really interested in purchasing music that I already own and can use. However, I'm sure that several of the LPs I've collected over the decades will need to be replaced by a digital version, or just kept as a pet.

Basically, all I want is all of my music in one place that I can access easily from a wide variety of locations.

That being said, again I thank everyone who responded. I'm off to install some software.

[mville]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

Hmmmm. mville, since you took the time to respond to me, I figure you're trying to help. Nevertheless, I must say that I get the feeling that you are -- as the phrase goes -- looking down your nose at me. "Furthermore, why do you even want to digitize your vinyl?" Is such a tone of voice really necessary, with it's implication that digitizing a vinyl collection is the effort of a moron?

Also, your opinion on what an analog-to-digital conversion would sound like carries several biases with it, not the least of which speaks to the physical hearing ability of the listener.

Finally, I find your acknowledgement that one might wish to rip vinyl "where no CD exists" turned patronizing by your addition of "but still."

I am very sorry that you feel that way as I never deliberately ask questions that can be construed to be of a personal nature.

I find these forums extremely interesting, enjoyable, where help and ideas are shared freely. I certainly did not want to criticize you (or anyone else who wants to rip their vinyl).

The opinions expressed here are my own. They are only meant to help us all learn something useful and new and not cause any grief.

[garym]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

Hmmmm. mville, since you took the time to respond to me, I figure you're trying to help. Nevertheless, I must say that I get the feeling that you are -- as the phrase goes -- looking down your nose at me.

I recognize that tone is hard to convey on the internet and sometimes things are misinterpreted. That said, you couldn't be more wrong about mville's intentions. He is one of the most helpful contributors to these forums and is a source of excellent and helpful information.

p.s. I too have digitized a handful of vinyl albums so that they are easier to play in my digital system. Frankly, it was so long ago that the software and hardware I used don't even exist anymore I suspect, but there's better stuff floating around for the task now.

[schmidj]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

I'm afraid this thread is drifting away from Old Man's original request. That said, I too am an "old man", semi-retired from an over 50 year career in audio. The earlier parts were as a consultant and/or chief engineer at several radio stations and a recording studio. The last 36 years as an audio/video systems engineer at one of the major broadcast networks here in the USA, mostly on the audio side. I specified and supervised the installation of the "high priced" equipment. I had to satisfy the demands of audio operators and producers whose ears were and are much more "golden" than mine, particularly as the years have passed.

Historically, much recording and mastering was done "in house" at the major USA record labels, the mastering engineers and producers were either employees or under contract to the labels. The role of the mastering engineer in the analog tape and vinyl era was to process the audio on the tape to make it sound "good" on the pressed vinyl record. Sometimes that meant pleasing to the ear, sometimes just "louder than the competition", partly based on the expectations of the producer and the genre. The mastering process was to a good degree art, as the process of cutting the master from the tape and pressing records had limitations and colored the sound. Now when CD's came out, that changed. Once some obvious problems like dithering and jitter reduction were dealt with, the CD for all practical purposes should be indistinguishable from the tape playback. Many early CD re-releases (and some current ones) of analog records suffered because the master tape had been processed for release on a vinyl record, with emphasized high frequencies, mono bass and such. Record companies started re-mastering material for CD's, for better or worse. While good mastering engineers with an agreeable producer could produce some excellent product, in the pop music world, the "loudness wars" all to often took precedence over quality. Then, in the last decade or more, the bean counters took over the record labels, the in-house staff and facilities disappeared and quality was even more "hit or miss." Good independent mastering engineers might be hired by producers of artists who cared, and could significantly improve the consistency and quality of the released product. But, all too often, low cost won out and little if any true mastering won out. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of CD's or downloads released now have absolutely no mastering as such done, a lot are mixed by musicians with only a rudimentary knowledge of good recording and mixing practices. At least as musicians, they usually do have some idea what the end result should sound like.

I'm not sure what Mville means by "high priced" and how price relates to performance in this day and age. While there is sometimes, but not always, a price point below which quality suffers, it is often durability and lifetime that suffers first. I should point out that the network I worked for was one of the earliest major customers of a name you would now recognize as very highly regarded in the audiophile world, we bought large numbers of analog to digital converters, digital to analog converters amplifiers, mic preamps, and such from them before any audiophile ever heard of them. We bought a lot from them in the process of converting our plant to digital. I doubt they would even be in business now if it wasn't for their sales to the broadcast networks some years ago. At the network, we tested many products in our lab, and they had the best. But now, I think you would be hard put to tell the difference between any of the "better" analog to digital or digital to analog converters in blind "A/B/X" testing. I know I can't and I'd be willing to bet that most of the "golden ears" can't either.

On this line, for at least 10 years now, the vast majority of analog to digital conversion occurs at the recording location before the mastering engineer, if there is one, ever sees it. For mastering engineers, its Digital in, Digital out, they have a digital to analog converter driving their monitor setup. The amount of analog recording these days is minuscule. Based on sales, I'd think you'd find a considerable percentage of the conversion was done on equipment made by MOTU, they are a major player on audio interfaces for computers, and sell a lot of equipment here in the USA. Not saying they are "the best", what ever that is, but good enough for me, and their stuff isn't cheap. Look at their website.

Finally, there are now several factors that have a larger impact than analog to digital conversion: The musicians and how they perform; the music; the microphones used and how they are applied; the microphone preamps how the particular microphone sounds with that particular preamp, the ability of the mixing engineer, the use or disuse of various audio processing, either per track or on the resulting mix ("plug-ins" for your digital mixing software all too often over used or mis-applied); and the monitoring speaker setup used during recording and mixing. (If you can't hear it correctly, you don't know how it will sound when released. A bass deficient monitor will often result in a bassy mix, a bassy monitor may result in weak bass in the mix.)

Enough for now.

[garym]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

I'm afraid this thread is drifting away from Old Man's original request. That said, I too am an "old man", semi-retired from an over 50 year career in audio. [...rest removed]

Thanks for that info schmidj. I always enjoy reading what people with extensive experience in "the industry" have to say. Interesting stuff.

[mville]

Re: Rip from USB turntable

I recognize that tone is hard to convey on the internet and sometimes things are misinterpreted. That said, you couldn't be more wrong about mville's intentions. He is one of the most helpful contributors to these forums and is a source of excellent and helpful information.

Thank you for your support garym, much appreciated.