How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

[Dat Ei]

Hey there,

maybe I'm too dumb or I'm too smart for this tool but I don't understand how to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values.

Have a look at my attachment to understand the following:

1.) I.E. I've set "New Power Generation, The" as album sort tag for "The New Power Generation", and "Revolution, The" for "The Revolution".

2.) The next time I've used PerfectTunes, I saw the hint that there are inconsistent values in combination with "Prince".


Prince is an album artist in combination with the album artist "The New Power Generation" for one album, as well as in combination with the album artist "The Revolution" for another album.


So what can I do? What should I do? What does PerfectTunes expect me to do?


As far as I understand, the tag "Album Artist Sort" can have multiple values. So what I would expect and like to have is, that "Prince; New Power Generation, The" and "Prince; Revolution, The".

Can I get it by PerfectTunes ID Tags? And how?

Clicking the arrow just copies the left album artist in the the new album sort artist, but that's not what I want. What shall I type in in the field "<inconsistent values>"? And what is the filed "{blank}" for?


Dat Ei

[Spoon]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

Album artist sort should not have multiple values for a given artist.

Blank means some of your files have no album artist sort set for Prince, whilst others have the values listed. If it were me I would want Prince to appear in the location 'p' for prince so all those listed values are wrong except blank, click blank to remove the sort for prince.

[Dat Ei]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

Album artist sort should not have multiple values for a given artist.

But a album may have multiple album artist sort tags, right?

So in my case I have albums from

1) "Prince" (just him)
2) "Prince" and "The New Power Generation"
3) "Prince" and "The Revolution"

So from PerfectTunes ID Tags view, I have to:

a) add a album artist sort tag "Prince" for all "Prince" albums first
b) then I can add the album artist sort tag "New Power Generation, The" for "The New Power Generation" and "Revolution, The " for "The Revolution"

Otherwise I would see the situation documented in the screen shot.

Or is there a different workflow you had in mind, when you designed the program? Is the program and workflow able to fix problems with multiple album artist sort tags at all?


Dat Ei

[mville]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

But a album may have multiple album artist sort tags, right?

So in my case I have albums from

1) "Prince" (just him)
2) "Prince" and "The New Power Generation"
3) "Prince" and "The Revolution"

...

Exactly what I have, for Prince (Album Artist and Album Artist Sort, multi-value tags). I do not get {blank} or any inconsistent values. I'd say something is wrong with your tags, somewhere.

[Dat Ei]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

Hey mville,

I'd say something is wrong with your tags, somewhere.

for sure! I agree with you totally, because til now I didn't use the sort tags at all.

Now I wanted to start to add them. So I began with PerfectTunes ID Tags and kept my eye first on the obvious problems, artist and album artist names with article (like "The Revolution"), and append the article at the end of the name. Then I saw the messages of PerfectTunes and I worried, if I understand the concept of the program and the workflow. At the moment I suspect, that I will run into a recursive problem with my workflow.

Maybe it would be better to copy the tag "album artist" to the tag "album artist sort" first and then to use PerfectTunes ID Tags.


Dat Ei

[mville]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

Hey mville

for sure! I agree with you totally, because til now I didn't use the sort tags at all.

Now I wanted to start to add them. So I began with PerfectTunes ID Tags and kept my eye first on the obvious problems, artist and album artist names with article (like "The Revolution"), and append the article at the end of the name. Then I saw the messages of PerfectTunes and I worried, if I understand the concept of the program and the workflow. At the moment I suspect, that I will run into a recursive problem with my workflow.

Maybe it would be better to copy the tag "album artist" to the tag "album artist sort" first and then to use PerfectTunes ID Tags.

Ah, OK, I see now.

I use/used CDRipper and MP3Tag to tag my Prince albums. I only use PerfectTUNES (unregistered), to highlight any issues (I don't have enough confidence in it yet, to not screw up many years of hard slog, sorry... I mean work ).

[Dat Ei]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

Hey Spoon,

ok, in the last two hours I tried my best to understand the logic but now I came to a point where I would say with all respect, that the logic / algorithm in PerfectTunes might be faulty.

As soon as there is

- more than one album artist for an album
- and one of them has solo albums too
- and I like to assign a value for the tag "album artist sort" for one of them,

this results in an inconsistence. The problem I see is, that you just

- write a new album artist sort tag, if there has been none before and fill in the new assignment for the changed artist only (all other album artists are not in the tag!)
- substitute the whole album artist tag with the new assignment for the changed artist only, if the album artist sort tag existed before (all other album artists are not in the tag!)

That's the result of my analysis. I didn't investigate the other tags (was a bit to experimental for me and my data), but I guess, that the algorithm and result will be the same.

What I would expect from a users point of view is:

- write a new album artist sort tag, if there has been none before and fill in the new assignment for the changed artist plus all the other album artists of the tag "album artist"
- substitute only the album artist in the album artist sort tags who has changed and keep all other album artists in the album artist sort tags


Dat Ei

[Spoon]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

It does not make sense that an album artist of:

XYZ

would have different sort values depending on which album it was on.

[Dat Ei]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

Hey Spoon,

It does not make sense that an album artist of:

XYZ

would have different sort values depending on which album it was on.

I agree with you totally, but that is not the problem. I try to explain it again:

Imagine the following situation with just two albums

1.) Album named "Album 1", with only one album artist: "The Artist 1"
2.) Album named "Album 2", with two album artists: "The Artist 1" and "The Artist 2"

No album artist sort tags assigned so far.

In the album artist sort tag view of PerfectTunes ID Tags we will see two artists/lines:

The Artist 1 ->
The Artist 2 ->

If I assign a value for "The Artists 2" now like

The Artist 1 ->
The Artist 2 -> Artist 2, The

PerfectTunes will insert a single album artist sort tag in the ID3 tags with the content "Artist 2, The".

This leads to the situation, that PerfectTunes will now report an inconsistent value for "The Artist 1", namely:

"Artist 2, The" and "{blank}"

But "The Artist 1" hasn't been touched at all! And "The Artist 2" has still one album artist sort tag assigned: "Artist 2, The".

Got it?


Dat Ei

[Dat Ei]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

Hey Spoon,

an even simpler example to understand the problem:

Imagine the following situation with just one album recorded by two artists "The Artist 1" and "The Artist 2". Both artists are listed in the album artists tag and in the album artist sort tags.

In the album artist sort tag view of PerfectTunes ID Tags we will see two artists/lines:

The Artist 1 -> The Artist 1
The Artist 2 -> The Artist 2

If I assign a new value for one of those artists, i.e. "The Artists 2" now like

The Artist 1 -> The Artist 1
The Artist 2 -> Artist 2, The

PerfectTunes will substitute the former two album artist sort tags by only one album artist sort tag with the content "Artist 2, The".

At the next start of PerfectTunes we will see the follwoing situation:

The Artist 1 -> Artist 2, The

There is no more an album artist sort tag for Artist 2 listed.


From my point of view:

1) either there has to be no album artist sort tag at all (in case none has been assigned by the user)
2) or there have to be as many album artist sort tags as there are album artists (1:1)

Now in case that the user assigns a new album artist sort tag you have

- to write all album artist sort tags for case 1)
- or just substitute the album artist sort tag that has been newly assigned


Dat Ei

[Spoon]

Re: How to use PerfectTunes ID Tags in case of inconsistent values?

I will take a look next time I am working on PT.