Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

[Barrington]

I have ripped most of my CD collection to FLAC, and I have no problem with burning compilation CDs by selecting these files through my burning software (CD Writer). However, if I try to burn CD-Rs from downloaded, hi-rez FLAC files, the resultant discs will not play reliably on my CD player. I've tried converting them first to 16-bit, 44.1 kHz WAV and then burning to CD-R; this still results in occasional skips on my two different CD players. Any suggestions as to how I can play those files via my CD player? (Note that I'm burning high reflectivity -- "archive grade" -- CD-Rs at the slowest burn rate.)

[Spoon]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

Try playing the burned CD on the drive used to write it. If there are no skips, then the disc is written correctly and it is a physical compatibility problem (not a digital problem of the files).

[Barrington]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

Thanks for your suggestion. For the most part, the burned CD plays without skips on the drive used to write it. However, there is one anomaly at the end of one particular track: this is a classical work where one movement transitions to another without any significant break in the musical line. The two movements appear in separate tracks and as the first track ends, there is a sudden break in the music -- a gap, if you will -- before the music resumes on the next track. As it resumes, it sounds like a note (or a portion of a note) from the first movement is played and then the next movement begins. In other words, it sounds like the CD skips a beat near the end of the track and then picks up again with the last note of that first track. This happens with every player or disc drive I've tried. Might there be a DSP effect that I need to enable in order to make the transition between movements seamless?

[Spoon]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

You need to write a gapless CD, it is a different type of CD.

[Barrington]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

The classical work that I describe consists of 33 tracks where the gap is a problem between only two of those 33 tracks. So if I understand correctly, writing a gapless CD would remove the breaks between all of the tracks which would definitely detract from the music. I'm wondering if I could apply the DSP effect to remove the gap between those two tracks only and leave the rest with the gaps -- is that possible?

[Spoon]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

No, because you are writing a non-gapless CD where there is enfored 2 seconds of silence added between tracks, regardless of the source files.

[garym]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

No, because you are writing a non-gapless CD where there is enfored 2 seconds of silence added between tracks, regardless of the source files.

To add to this, if you are writing a gapless CD, there will still be gaps between tracks if they were there on the original cd. But as spoon notes, additional gaps won't be added. This should be a setting on your cd writer.

[schmidj]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

There are two things to check: First you need to be writing DAO - Disc at once - not track at once. This means all the tracks are written in one burn, not a track at a time. If you write TAO, there will be gaps, and quite likely noises, between the tracks. Most good burner programs now default to DAO. Second, you need to find the setting for default pause time for your burning software, and set it to zero. The default is usually set to two seconds for non-live pop music. Some, including myself like more, like four seconds for some genres.

If you still have an issue, use an audio editor to look at the envelope of the actual file. If there is silence at the end, or the beginning of the following cut, there will obviously be a gap, even with a gapless player. You'd have to edit the files to remove the silence. (I seem to recall that DBPA has a DSP function to do this automatically).

It is also worthy to note, that if you are making your own CD's that you should leave about o.35 second of silence or unimportant material ahead of what you want as the beginning of the song when the track is played by itself. This is because almost all CD players either clip a little off the beginning or fade up at the beginning of playback. Amount depends on the make of player. I once got burnt on this. A client complained that the songs on the CD I burnt for him were upcut. My copy played fine on my player. His had a longer fade up, I had to remaster with a longer period of silence at the beginning of each cut. 0.35 seconds appears to cover any properly working CD player.

An other thought has occurred, if the original rip had an undetected issue, i.e. not in accuraterip, it is possible the burner used to rip muted a little where the problem occurred, either at the end of one track or the beginning of the next.

Finally, I've seen too many CD's with erroneous PQ data, the metadata on the CD that tells the player where tracks begin and end. Not an issue, except possibly at the end of the CD if you play it from end to end, but a problem if you play the tracks one-by-one. If you can't get a replacement, corrected disc to rerip, then rip the bad disc as one file, in DBPA or with other software, listen to the rip to make sure it is complete, and then use editing software to break it into (gapless) tracks where you want them.

[Barrington]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

Thanks to all of those who have made suggestions as to how I could address the issues I face. Using the "Gapless Audio CD" setting in CD Writer worked perfectly for all disc players except my primary, high-end CD player -- it wouldn't read the disc at all. I've tried a variety of CD-R brands, including the more expensive (high-reflectivity, phthalocyanine dye) types without consistent success. So I tried the following test: I downloaded both the 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC and the 16-bit, 44.1 kHz FLAC files of the same Linn recordings and tried burning CD-Rs from both. The 24-bit, 192 kHz files -- converted to a 16-bit, 44.1 kHz WAV format through Music Converter and then burned to a CD-R -- would not play reliably on my high-end player. The 16-bit, 44.1 kHz FLAC files, written using the Audio CD setting in CD Writer, worked perfectly. Some of the test tracks were from older recordings that had originally used HDCD encoding; these played back correctly through my HDCD-enabled player, and my understanding is that this indicates a bit-perfect burn. So I'm wondering if there might be some way of converting the 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC test files to 16-bit, 44.1 kHz FLAC that would be equivalent to the 16-bit test files I downloaded and burned successfully. Does anyone have any ideas about what might be going on here?

[Barrington]

Re: Preparing 24-bit, 192 kHz FLAC files for burning to CD-R

I just found some posts from 2011 and 2012 that explained the use of the Bit Depth and Resample DSP Effects when converting from 24/192 to 16/44.1. I've tried that and was seemingly successful with the first CD I burned -- the TOC was read without difficulty, and the disc is playing without skips thus far. A happy ending, it seems!