Ripping The Infamous "White Lillies Island"

[Jayess]

The first copy of White Lillies Island I bought used I trashed because I thought it was bad; I didn't know anything about this disc possibly being infected with this problem:

"White Lilies Island uses Israeli technology company Midbar's Cactus Data Shield to prevent the disc from being played in a PC CD-ROM drive. The encoding process systematically corrupts the music stored on the disc. A hi-fi CD player's error correction mechanism can compensate for the corrupt data and recreate the sound to a level that Midbar claims is undetectable by the listener. Put the CD into a PC, however, and the drive will pick up the corrupt and claim the disc is unreadable."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/11/19/bmg_to_replace_antirip_natalie/

I picked up another copy yesterday and ripping it is turning out to be a nightmare trying to figure out if it is ripping properly? The disc looks to be fine physically, but if I rip secure it wants to rip thousands of frames on tracks, some of the tracks report secure, others don't. If I rip on burst, I get different readings each time on some tracks and none of them match Accuraterip. All of the various settings rip extremely slow with speeds ranging between .9x and 1.4x during the entire rip. The previous disc I had ripped in the same slow manner. And then there's "defective by design." Is this when that setting should be used?

How do you tell when a CD has or may have this kind of problem?

[Spoon]

Re: Ripping The Infamous "White Lillies Island"

These discs have intentional errors in the audio stream, it is impossible to get accuraterip verfication.

[Jayess]

Re: Ripping The Infamous "White Lillies Island"

These discs have intentional errors in the audio stream, it is impossible to get accuraterip verfication.

Thanks for the quick response.

How do you know when you're dealing with one of these type discs?

Is it possible to rip it lossless where it at least sounds the same as the CD?

My experiment using the defective by design rip option didn't work. Sounded terrible.

[pablogm123]

Re: Ripping The Infamous "White Lillies Island"

I own this album, in protected and non-protected version.

Protected european release I own: 74321 891212, manufactured by Disctronics. This release is a multisession disc (second session contains a player which plays a encrypted and lossy version), and breaks standards because the imperative track 1's pregap has 149 sectors, not at least 150 as required, and audio session has LOTS of CU errors. And there is a very visible ring on CD surface, which separates session 1 from session 2.

Non-protected european release I own: 74321 913422. A standard CDDA disc, which takes into account the standards, manufactured by Sonopress.

You can do nothing to obtain a clean dump, there are lots of C2 errors that your drive will interpolate. The only realistic options to get a 100% clean and free of interpolation and artifacts dump are:
-Buy a non-protected release. You can search on eBay or Discogs, for example, to buy a non-protected release. And make sure that you are buying a non-protected release.
-You own physically the album, so that you can exercise your customer rights, and download a lossless copy from a non-protected disc.

[Jayess]

Re: Ripping The Infamous "White Lillies Island"

I own this album, in protected and non-protected version.

Protected european release I own: 74321 891212, manufactured by Disctronics. This release is a multisession disc (second session contains a player which plays a encrypted and lossy version), and breaks standards because the imperative track 1's pregap has 149 sectors, not at least 150 as required, and audio session has LOTS of CU errors. And there is a very visible ring on CD surface, which separates session 1 from session 2.

Non-protected european release I own: 74321 913422. A standard CDDA disc, which takes into account the standards, manufactured by Sonopress.

You can do nothing to obtain a clean dump, there are lots of C2 errors that your drive will interpolate. The only realistic options to get a 100% clean and free of interpolation and artifacts dump are:
-Buy a non-protected release. You can search on eBay or Discogs, for example, to buy a non-protected release. And make sure that you are buying a non-protected release.
-You own physically the album, so that you can exercise your customer rights, and download a lossless copy from a non-protected disc.

My disc is a Sonopress USA version with numbers: 07863680822 and B5281-01

[Jayess]

Re: Ripping The Infamous "White Lillies Island"

Interesting development. I bought another CD yesterday, used, but mint condition, of kathryn William's Relation album. Put it into my full height HP 1270 drives, which I purchased in 2011 from Bestbuy. Neither of the two drives could read the CD. So then I put it in my HP external USB 560 drive, also a 2011 drive. The 560r read it and behaved just like the White Lillies album. It ripped overnight at speeds around .02X, taking many hours to complete. This morning I listened to it and the tracks were full of static. The results read inaccurate and gave numbers like 20 and 21 for every single track. This is the exact same kind of reading that White Lillies gave.

Last night, after the 1270 drives wouldn't read it, I stuck the disc in the wife's HP desktop, 2007 genre with a TSSTCORP CDDVDW T6-H6553N drive. It read the disc right off the bat. This morning I loaded Dbpoweramp and tested ripping the Relations album on that machine. It ripped perfectly at no normal read speeds.

Of course after seeing this, I had to re-rip White Lillies in her machine, and just as the Kathryn Williams Relations disc, White Lillies ripped perfectly. It did perform the rips as secure however, but I take that as meaning it wasn't able to find an Accuraterip match for the pressing rather than a problem with the disc.

Just goes to show you how strange drives behave, and what a wide-array of them you need to actually rip a large collection with your sanity intact.

[pablogm123]

Re: Ripping The Infamous "White Lillies Island"

If you cannot find an unprotected release, try ripping that album using a drive based on Panasonic chipset. Many laptops own a Panasonic chipset based CD/DVD drive, +102 in AccurateRip. I have tested this kind of drives in the past, and they interpolate the artificial C2 errors better than Mediatek based drives, like the TS-H6553N