The New Lot!!!

[tomcatter]

Greetings folks,

Tomcatter here.This is my first time to post to DB PowerAmp Forums.Without much ado,here's the inquiry:
Has anyone heard of the latest MP3 player from Philips?I saw it here in England.It's the Philips HDD 6320. All I know is that it has 30Gig capacity.Still has the black Darth Vader looks though.
Any comments,suggestions,or feedbacks?

Respectfully Yours,
tomcatter

[neilthecellist]

Re: The New Lot!!!

I can't find any English results on the Internet, so I'm sorry to say that I can't help you, but I'm sure there are others on this forum who speak the language that I am finding that contain results on the Philips HDD 6320. :-\

[gameplaya15143]

Re: The New Lot!!!

my quick search was also not very informative....

if it doesnt support ogg vorbis, save your money, its trash

[neilthecellist]

Re: The New Lot!!!

LOL!

Well, some people don't know what Ogg Vorbis is.

Can we help this guy and not give him super-negative problems?

[donny]

Re: The New Lot!!!

well it is up to the buyer to decide does he need ogg or not, but I think it is nice to have a player with ogg, very nice format, totaly open source, witch you have respect

[tomcatter]

Re: The New Lot!!!

Fact is,I know what Ogg Vorbis is all about.This format is in competition against Sony's ATRAC.
Anyway,I sure hope the Philips 6320 can play AAC because it is my preferred format.
To tell you people,I have the HDD120.For an MP3 player in this format,I believe that I chose the perfect brand.Superb stereo sound and the elegant black looks.

[xoas]

Re: The New Lot!!!

The only links I have found on this product are these two:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BAABBC/iwantipod-21/ref%3Dnosim/203-9469436-7952741

http://www99.shopping.com/xPF-Philips_HDD6330_30_GB

From these, it looks almost certain that this player does not support AAC.
It is handsome. User reviews (there are only a few) seem to be less than flattering.

Best wishes,
Bill

[xoas]

Re: The New Lot!!!

I know what Ogg Vorbis is all about.This format is in competition against Sony's ATRAC.

I am responding to this statement separately because I do not wish other users to be misled by this statement. While Ogg Vorbis is a lossy audio codec (a format for encoding and decoding audio information), as is mp3, mp4/m4a/aac, wma, and Atrac, Atrac is significantly different for most standard audio formats in that it is proprietary (it is used by Sony and that's about it, and Sony really does not seem to be interested in letting other players/programs use this format) and it is highly restrictive in the digital rights measures it undertakes (such files are not meant to be converted to other formats). The two things that can be said about Atrac in a positive way are that it lets you use some of the pretty nifty hardware that Sony produces (much of which cannot be used except through Atrac) and that some people report that they like the quality that Atrac seems to maintain at low bit-rates (although most users who have done comparisons still reort that they prefer wma, mp3, mp3pro, and/or ogg vorbis by far over Atrac).
Ogg vorbis would better be viewed as a competitor to mp3, m4a/mp4/aac, wma, and musepack. All are lossy formats which allow the user to maintain audio files at significantly smaller bit-rates (and thus with smaller file sizes). With the AoTuV ogg vorbis codecs (which need to be installed along with the standard ogg vorbis codec for full use), ogg vorbis seems to produce superior results across the bit-rate spectrum (even as low as 64 kbs, according to some users-I have not tried ogg vorbis at very low bitrates myself). Ogg vorbis is based on open-source code making it far less proprietary than mp3 (where the patent holder for mp3 has been getting royalties from programs that allow the use of mp3 encoding technology for a while now). Although I would not go so far as to say that any portable player that does not support ogg vorbis is rubbish, I would think that a smart buyer might well want to give some weight to a player that supports ogg vorbis over one that does not. Still, ogg vorbis is supported by only a few players and other considerations (including not having to convert or re-rip a large library of mp3 or wma files to ogg vorbis; and other player features) could lead a reasonable and informed user to select a portable that does not use ogg vorbis.

Sorry to have gone on so long about this but comparing ogg vorbis to Atrac is like comparing a BMW to a Yugo (BMW may be a bit of exageration, IMHO the Yugo part is not).

Best wishes,
Bill

[gameplaya15143]

Re: The New Lot!!!

wow... didnt mean so stir up so much commotion :headbang:

[neilthecellist]

Re: The New Lot!!!

In other words, your statement is false, tomcatter. Ogg Vorbis was developed independently by Xiph.org , and from what I see, I don't see any competition.

Ogg Vorbis is a super highly compressible format / high quality sound codec that hurts my ears sometimes and is licensed to video games such as Unreal Tournament, Unreal Championship II: Liandri Conflict, the Stars Wars game series, Harry Potter, Tony Hawk, Quake IV, all run with Ogg Vorbis as the music and/or sound.

The only modern game I know of that doesn't use Ogg Vorbis is F.E.A.R., which is scary enough with the WMA codec.



*AHEM*

back to topic

Well, no AAC support, that's ok with me, since I'm not a fan for AAC. But no Ogg Vorbis support is a killer. I'd say, stop looking at this product and move on.

[tomcatter]

Re: The New Lot!!!

The thing is,both Ogg Vorbis and ATRAC are formats that compress files at smaller bitrates that would give the results with a mean square of the bitrate.Everybody here knows that.It is an algorithmic configuration.So,take for instance,a song ripped at 64 kbps will have the effects of a 128 kbps compression rate.Basic knowledge for everyone here.
I went to Sony Centre in Manchester to query them about ATRAC.Their basic explanation was just so.Basically,at a glance,they have the same concept.But it's just that each of these manufacturers have their own enhancements.Their so-called ''flavorings'' or ''Icing on the Cake'' to add features into their products.It's just like MacDonald's vs Burger King.Mac's have their burgers fried while Burger King have it grilled. One says we've got pickle,catsup and relish with it,while the other says we have grilled bacon to go with our burgers.The bottom line is:Both are BURGERS,but with different fillings and presentation.We,as consumers must make our choice to take that pick.So,in the end,Mac or Burger King?Ogg Vorbis or ATRAC?Consumer-take your pick.Although,for a fact,each company have their own independent ways
of presenting their craft to the general public.Sony works on its own way,Ogg
independently trades on their own.
Well,I'm still open to opinions regarding the PHILIPS HDD6320.Any more comments out there?
xoas,neill,thanks for slapping me on the face. :smile2: :smile2: :smile2:
Try it on the one who said that it's rubbish without Ogg Vorbis.I only asked for info regarding the Philips HDD6320.Then somebody said something about rubbish and junking without Ogg.

With Great Respects
tomcatter

[xoas]

Re: The New Lot!!!

Tomcatter-
I do apologize if I have offended you. I normally strive to avoid playing favorites with codecs and to avoid confronting user preferences that sometimes appear to be eccentric.

I completely understand the similarities between Atrac and and Ogg Vorbis. I believe that I outlined in post #8 of this thread what I take to very significant differences between these two formats. The first is that one is open source and the other is deeply proprietary. The second is that one deeply restricts your ability to copy your files to other formats (and across platforms) and one does not.

I happen to feel strongly about this second issue. We get a fair amount of traffic of people frustrated with Atrac and the way it defeats your efforts to do much with it except to export it to your Sony player. We have had users who have made their own recordings of their own original material who have lost any ability to access that material because they recorded and saved it to Atrac. I also have deep concerns about the overall issue of Digital Rights Management and the erosion of traditional fair-use rights to allow users to make copies of their audio files for their personal use. Sony, proprieter of the Atrac format, is a leading industry proponent of DRM technology and Atrac is but one manifestation of this.

Atrac has many satisfied customers, I am sure. I have no issue with those who use and are happy with Atrac. But Atrac is, to my mind, deeply atypical of other audio formats and my principal concern in my post, as I stated, was to avoid the impression that Ogg (or, for that matter, nearly all of the other major audio formats) is like Atrac except in the obvious sense that Atrac and Ogg both allow the compression, storage and use of audio data and in the less obvious sense that both have demonstrated (at least in the reports of some) capacity to do a decent job at very low bitrates better than mp3. Still, believing as I do, I would not want a niaive user to mistake any audio format for Atrac.

I do apologize for slipping in my automobile analogy. It was meant to clarify the distinction I was trying to make but I am afraid in retrospect that it could be seen as a form of intellectual one-upmanship (which clever analogies often are whether intentionally or not).

Finally, I will share that I am currently looking for a portable player and that while ogg vorbis capability is a factor in my deliberations I am completely in agreement that this will not be my only consideration and that I do not feel that a portable player HAS to support ogg vorbis to be worthy of consideration.

If I run across any further references to your player, I will pass them on.

With both regrets and best wishes ( ?),
Bill

[donny]

Re: The New Lot!!!

well anyway I am driving a Yugo (though a very good one, if you are interested), and I'm "driving" Ogg Vorbis for about the same time now... :D :D

just though it was funny

[tomcatter]

Re: The New Lot!!!

No problem Xoas,I just hope that we can communicate further for sharing of infos and exchange of ideas with dbpoweramp.

No offense,none taken :smile2: :smile2: :D :komisch9:

[ChristinaS]

Re: The New Lot!!!

well anyway I am driving a Yugo (though a very good one, if you are interested), and I'm "driving" Ogg Vorbis for about the same time now... :D :D

just though it was funny

Donny, the "yugos" referred to are those form about 20 years ago that were sold in North America at rock bottom prices - and were truly horrifically bad cars. As were Ladas and other Eastern European imports. But what other car could one buy new for less than $5000 back then?

They are apparently no longer imported now, having been replaced by Korean imports like Kia which has replaced its older brother Hyundai as cheap first car. However these Korean cars are actually not bad at all and are every bit as well built as the much more expensive Japanese cars - though at the low end of the scale to be sure. About the only things wrong with them are the body metal (too thin, so it gets dented too easily just from ordinary pressure) and the service - which is the worst part of the deal. Dealers and their staff are either ignorant, incompetent or just plain ill-willing when it comes to maintaining and fixing these cars. Think using the wrong fluid in place of coolant after you go for the requisite annual inspection (which, if you miss, invalidates the warranty)..... :vmad: