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The next legal challenge...

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  • Spoon
    Administrator
    • Apr 2002
    • 44583

    The next legal challenge...

    Last year it was mp3 patents, this year it is a trademark dispute:

    To Whom it May Concern:

    It has recently come to our attention that four of your products, dbPowerAMP Audio Player, dbPowerAMP Music Converter, dbPowerAMP CD Writer and dbPowerAMP Portable Audio are infringing on our AMP® trademark (see attached U.S. registration details).

    "AMP", the AMP logo, and the "Advanced MultiMedia Products" brand name are trademarks of PlayMedia Systems, Inc. and/or its corporate affiliates (Advanced Multimedia Partners).

    Only publishers of those products which contain our proprietary AMP® MP3 decoding engine OR who are properly licensed by us may use the trademark "AMP" as a component of their own product/service marks.

    Therefore, I am hereby requesting (1) that you provide me with information regarding your business relationship with the website "Codec Central" or others who may be involved in the "Illustrate" enterprise, as it is presently unclear to me precisely WHO controls dbPowerAMP and whether Codec Central is, therefore, potentially infringing on our trademark as well, and (2) that you provide me with contact information regarding "Illustrate" personnel for contact purposes.

    PlayMedia will be sending to all parties concerned a formal Cease and Desist letter explaining our position on this legal issue, and want to make sure that only the appropriate parties are brought into this matter.

    More to follow. In the mean time, I may be reached any time by the following contact methods.

    Thank you for your assistance with respect to this matter (which I hope can be resolved amicably).

    Sincerely Yours,

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    Brian D. Litman
    CEO

    PlayMedia Systems, Inc.
    [personal details edited]

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    Spoon
    www.dbpoweramp.com
  • Spoon
    Administrator
    • Apr 2002
    • 44583

    #2
    Re: The next legal challenge...

    My reply:

    Now obviously the whole reason for this debacle is your wish for us to License your mp3 decoder, PlayMedia would have to convince us that:

    a) Your decoder has 'best-of-breed' decoding quality,
    b) Your Licensing terms are favourable to us,

    Our legal council suggests we have grounds for a VERY strong defence (emphasis on VERY was the legal councils not ours), one which we would be happy to mount in a court of your choosing in the US, should you decide. PlayMedia will not suceed in any 'Chilling Effects' with Illustrate.

    We wish for PlayMedia to clarify these main points of contention:

    Our usage of the word AMP comes from the application of audio amplification (commonly known as AMPing) further expanded by amplifier devices which form part of Hi-Fi units, these are commonly known also as AMPs. AMP is therefore a common generic term, as such our usage of the word AMP is (and always has been) a descriptive term of the process an audio signal is subject to, it is amplified. This is further elaborated by the other words in our name: dB is decibel, POWER describes the level of audio signal and AMP describes a process applied to the audio signal. The whole name is a conjoined descriptive sentence and therefore not infringing of your Trademark.

    Also, how a person visiting dbpoweramp.com will be confused with Playmedia, especially as your 'AMP' product is an mp3 decoding SDK, our market is the home user, as such we do not offer an mp3 SDK?, just to clarify more...Playmedia are alleging a technical company (not a member of the public) who have a requirement for an mp3 decoding SDK will visit our site, confuse it with Playmedia and somehow purchase our non-existent mp3 SDK? This alleged Trademark infringement needs to be clarified.

    _______________________
    Mr Spoon www.dbpoweramp.com
    Spoon
    www.dbpoweramp.com

    Comment

    • Spoon
      Administrator
      • Apr 2002
      • 44583

      #3
      Re: The next legal challenge...

      Please remember any replies I give here might be limited incase this comes to trial, it could be used in court.
      Spoon
      www.dbpoweramp.com

      Comment

      • LtData
        dBpoweramp Guru

        • May 2004
        • 8288

        #4
        Re: The next legal challenge...

        They have a trademark on "AMP"? Then why don't I see their "AMP" mentioned in the first 11 pages of a google search for AMP?

        Edit: they are in the Wikipedia entry, but as a media player not a MP3 encoder. Also this first line in the Wikipedia article sums it all up:
        The three-letter abbreviation AMP can refer to the following
        Edit 2: correction, they didn't show up in the AMP Google search, at least not that a quick search for "playmedia" found on each results page.
        Last edited by LtData; September 19, 2005, 08:13 PM.

        Comment

        • donny
          dBpoweramp Guru

          • Oct 2002
          • 761

          #5
          Re: The next legal challenge...

          as far as I know amp is amplifier so I don't see what do they have to do with it... it would be like me trade marking "Book" and then chargin people for using the word book on their publishing sites, and why stop there I could soo some companies for calling their laptops book...

          weird

          Comment

          • LtData
            dBpoweramp Guru

            • May 2004
            • 8288

            #6
            Re: The next legal challenge...

            If I'm right, doesn't "dBpowerAMP" just basically mean "decibel power amplifier"? How can you tradekark an abbreviation... just further proof that the patent office needs some reforming.

            Comment

            • Razgo
              Administrator
              • Apr 2002
              • 2532

              #7
              Re: The next legal challenge...

              well lets not forget the reason behind using trade marks in the first place. and that is to protect our product and name in the strongest legal sense possible. why else would Spoon be trying to register a trade mark?

              i dont think the other party will win against spoons trademark but i do think it is just a case of they have to explore all avenues to protect their product. as spoon will have to also.

              is dbpoweramp registered? i see the letters "TM" which usualy means it isnt registered yet and is still "pending". as i have a trade mark myself and use the letter / emblem that represents a registered trademark "R".


              but in the end trade marks are always tricky!! and Spoon will have to be vigilant against others as well now.
              Last edited by Spoons; September 19, 2005, 09:56 PM.

              Comment

              • Wayne
                dBpoweramp Guru

                • Aug 2002
                • 1254

                #8
                Re: The next legal challenge...

                I've just tried a Google search on AMPhibian and Playmedia didn't get a mention on the first few screens.

                Wayne

                Comment

                • ChristinaS
                  dBpoweramp Guru

                  • Apr 2004
                  • 4097

                  #9
                  Re: The next legal challenge...

                  Wow, they are grasping at straws or what?

                  I've never even heard of them under either of those names.

                  If they chose to use AMP as an acronym which they somehow managed to trademark, may I point out that the first meaning that comes to mind is that it's short for "amputee". Maybe the War Amps will be interested in hearing that their use of the term amp infringes on somebody's use of the same 3 letter string as an acronym for somehting totally unrelated and irrelevant.

                  Hmmm, how about AMP short for Another Mindless Pettiness?

                  Comment

                  • Spoon
                    Administrator
                    • Apr 2002
                    • 44583

                    #10
                    Re: The next legal challenge...

                    >why else would Spoon be trying to register a trade mark?

                    I am not trying to register, just putting TM after specific words to make them known as trademarks (unregistered).
                    Spoon
                    www.dbpoweramp.com

                    Comment

                    • ChristinaS
                      dBpoweramp Guru

                      • Apr 2004
                      • 4097

                      #11
                      Re: The next legal challenge...

                      Well, the only mentions of amphibian coming out in Google deal with the real thing like http://www.amphibian.co.uk/ :D

                      I guess they are taking a bath in SERPS and are trying to come up for air this way :D

                      Comment

                      • Razgo
                        Administrator
                        • Apr 2002
                        • 2532

                        #12
                        Re: The next legal challenge...

                        I am not trying to register, just putting TM after specific words to make them known as trademarks (unregistered).
                        why not register it? it protects your business much better. and now might be the time to register the names whilst it is being tested anyway.

                        Comment

                        • hedwards

                          • Jan 2006
                          • 5

                          #13
                          Re: The next legal challenge...

                          IANAL, but they are legally obligated to send such letters to parties that appear to be using or infringing upon their trademark.

                          AFAIK, there has yet to be a definitive precedent for "squatter's rights," on trademarks or software patents. Until that issue is settled there will be a larger than normal level of threats.

                          Based upon IP tradition, trademarks are only valid until such a time as they become a word in common use. However in recent years the trademark and patent office has been allowing things like "Amp" which have a previous and widespread meaning to be trademarked. Which is why Google was trying to squash the term "googling."

                          Without knowing much I would say that the likelyhood of them winning a case in general for that trademark is unlikely. It is a common term with several meanings. In order to win a case like this they would have to prove that:
                          1) the reference is to their mark
                          2) that there is a cause for confusion between the products

                          And I doubt that they could do either thing.

                          Comment

                          • Spoon
                            Administrator
                            • Apr 2002
                            • 44583

                            #14
                            Re: The next legal challenge...

                            My thoughts exactly hence my 'agressive' reply to them.
                            Spoon
                            www.dbpoweramp.com

                            Comment

                            • gameplaya15143
                              dBpoweramp Enthusiast

                              • Sep 2005
                              • 276

                              #15
                              Re: The next legal challenge...

                              they're just mad because everyone knows about dBpowerAMP and nobody knows about thier little stupid company (i've already forgot what it was called) so take your trademark and shove it up your "AMP"!! they are just looking for 'free' money since their worthless company isnt making any [insert laugh here]... and so begins the boycott of playmedia and their so-called advanced multimedia products brand (i have never heard of the company before, but now i will watch out and make sure they never get any of my business, and i hope others will do the same)

                              and becides, dBpowerAMP is called "dBpowerAMP" NOT "AMP" (they called it "dbPowerAMP", and its "dbpowerAMP" on the forum title which, spoon, i think you should fix so you have a consistent name)

                              Comment

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