No praise here (feedback)

[whitehouse]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

As long as the dAP player isn't set as the default & the tool tip option is unchecked, the tool tip remains off (and the hourglass is gone). The description does say dBpowerAMP, the info covers the entire screen.

I need to work with the dAP player a bit longer before I am familiar with all of its features. My initial concern was, "Can the player help me with equalizing files thru Power Pack DSP". This didn't pan out, but I haven't given up yet. Actually, the player didn't sound normal until today. The natural sound of the player had been too bright, which caused files that were adjusted to sound muffled when heard thru a different player. I used Winamp instead.

The auto-equalization feature is new to me. Also, I haven't tried MMC just yet, but created a playlist in dAP and found that the files were out of order. Tag info is filled, ID3v1 - title, artist, & album info, except comments. If there were no tag info, perhaps the files would fall into alphabetical order.

I no longer worry with the slider now that I'm saving EQF files in Winamp. When needed, I create a new file with a higher or lower volume, and bypass the use of the slider. EQF files work fine with the Power Pack DSP equalization.

Results have been well worth effort.

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[xoas]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

The auto-equalization feature is new to me. Also, I haven't tried MMC just yet, but created a playlist in dAP and found that the files were out of order. Tag info is filled, ID3v1 - title, artist, & album info, except comments. If there were no tag info, perhaps the files would fall into alphabetical order.

I'm not sure this is so. In my own limited experience with Playlist Editor, I find it to be a little capricious as to the order in which it loads files. Generally it seems to load files in the order in which you add them to the playlist but this is not always the case and I will confess that I haven't yet tried to figure out how and why this occurs. But you can re-arrange or sort the items in a playlist using the methods I described in my last post.

"Can the player help me with equalizing files thru Power Pack DSP".

The EQ in the Power Pack DSP is used for recording. This should result in a file that sounds as if you had recorded it through an equalizer in whatever settings you used but you would not normally see anything that would tell you this. This file would sound the same way regardless of the player you used. If the major problem you were hoping to address is the player sounding too bright, howver, the DSP EQ would not help with that problem, the dAP EQ would be the tool you would want to use.

Best wishes,
Bill

[whitehouse]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

The EQ in the Power Pack DSP is used for recording.

Hmmm... I haven't been using it for recording, unless you mean writing a new file.

But what I was attempting to say is, the .deq file produced by dAP when used in the Power Pack DSP to equalize and write a new file, produced an mp3 that was muffled. This, due to the brightness of the player which caused the settings for the .deq file to be wrong. The resulting mp3 would then sound muffled in any player except dAP and also in any shelf system if burned to CD. I switched to Winamp for the moment, but I will be getting back to dAP, installing skins, and working with the player again.

For playing mp3s (not producing .deq files), I can see that dBpowerAMP player has a lot to offer and an excellent sound. I'm just having a problem applying it to a specific purpose along with the Power Pack DSP and equalization.

If burned to CD, files must sound their very best. For some mp3s, an adjustment is a "must" because of the limited equalization available with boom boxes and small systems. The problem has nothing to do with the player's equalization settings for specific files. Rather, it's the natural sound of the player (without equalization, ie; reset, flat).

If a tune playing in dAP doesn't sound like it will in a shelf system or another player (thru headphones), then I can't make an equalization that is correct. Accuracy is crucial. :teufel8:

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[xoas]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

I haven't been using it for recording, unless you mean writing a new file.

This is, broadly speaking, what I mean. The dsp EQ is a feature of dB Music Converter that can be accessed when converting files, ripping files, or recording through dMC Auxilary Input. I am using the term "recording" here as opposed to "playback" (which is what the EQ function of the dB Audio Player does). You can also apply dsp EQ in creating audio cd's with dB CD Writer. The EQ settings used in CD Writer will, I believe, mimic those active in dMC so you will want to check this carefully if you are using dB CD Writer to burn your tracks to cd.

As for the rest, much of what you say sounds strange to me. I had always assumed that if I applied EQ to a track through dAP that the resulting difference would not be applied to the actual file but would be stored as a set of directions within dAP to tell dAP what adjustments to make when playing the file. I would not expect that set of instructions (the .deq file you mention, perhaps) to have any meaning outside of dAP nor would it be stored in a way that the information would not be carried over outside of dAP.
EXAMPLE: Say I have an mp3 file stored in MMC and I have set dAP EQ to the Rock preset and applied it to this track. If I play this track in some other player, there will be no EQ applied, the track will be played just as if I had not assigned a dAP EQ setting to it. If I tried to transfer the file with the EQ settings for this track to some other player I would be surprised that you would be able to get even a muffled response (I would expect the programming of the dAP and the other player to be too different).
EXAMPLE 2:Further, if I took this same mp3 file to which I had assigned an EQ preset within dAP and converted the mp3 file to Ogg, the Ogg file would have no EQ assigned to it, not within dAP and not outside of dAP.

Now if you are preparing files to be burned to cd and you are wanting them to sound their best on equipment that doesn't have good playback features, you can use the dsp EQ either through dMC or through dB CD Writer. If you knew just how you wanted to tweak it, you can create a standardized EQ setting for this purpose and store it in dMC (or maybe even within dAP) and access it during either the converting or burning process (actually I think dB CD Writer would also handle this as a converting task, creating a temporary file with the EQ added, and burning the temporary file). But in this case, the EQ changes will be encoded to the newly converted file, you wouldn't need to be messing about with .deq files. But if you added EQ as you were converting files through dMC, you could hear the results (unless the EQ adjustment was too subtle) but there would be nothing else (such as a file extension or taf information) that would indicate that this file had had EQ added to it.

The idea of trying to use either dAP or dMC to make tailored adjustments for optimum playback on suboptimal equipment seems to be daunting and the appropriate process strikes me as being rather different than what I might try. To get accurately predictable results I would think you either need to know exactly what changes you need to make for the equipment or you need to create a custom EQ setting for dAP that would emulate the characteristics of your equipment. Then you could try different EQ settings of certain files using dMC to see what differences you need to apply to your files using dMC's dsp EQ for best results. Or, you could line out your playback through your target equipment, if such is possible and try different EQ settings directly.

Hope this makes sense.
Perhaps someone else is seeing this situation differently or has a better approacjh.

Best wishes,
Bill

[whitehouse]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

Recording? OK ... But that makes me think of a microphone.

Anyway, the files that are created, will always play with the new equalization. No standardized EQ setting is used, there is a different setting permanently applied to each tune.

EQF and deq files might be looked at as "filters" thru which information passes. Once the file is written, the "filter" is no longer needed. I keep the successful "filter" as a reference point.

A file should playback the same as files from a retail CD. Or, at least be compatible sonically with other files on the CD. When the sound is right, equalizer pre-sets will handle the balance throughout the CD without change.

For playback, I choose the equipment. With headphones, there isn't much of a problem.

The files I adjusted, will now play with an even transition from tune to tune, and all are improved. There's a lot more that can be done with the software, but this was what I needed. CD Writer might be useful, but I would need to see what it is capable of. Remember, I'm stuck with Winamp (EQF).

Thanks XOAS and everyone for the advice and help. And I hope the feedback was of some use, because it's a good software.

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[xoas]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

EQF and deq files might be looked at as "filters" thru which information passes. Once the file is written, the "filter" is no longer needed. I keep the successful "filter" as a reference point.

So are you saying that if you find an EQ setting you like when playing a track through dAP, you would like to use the same EQ setting in dMC when you convert that track to prepare it for burning? And two of the problems you are looking at are: 1) that dAP is sort of unnaturally bright and that this makes it more difficult to find the correct EQ setting for your conversions because when the converted files are burned and played they do not sound like the files you heard in dAP; and 2) if you set and save an EQ setting in dAP you either cannot access it in dMC or you find it altered?

If I understand what you are trying to do, I would note that the dsp EQ in Music Converter (dMC) would be effective for either boosting or reducing the signal at particular frequencies but would not serve to boost the overall signal. If the primary problem with certain tracks is inconsistent volume, then you might well want to use the simple volume normalization dsp set at 0 dB (or 100%). This won't have very much impact on tracks that are already loud but it will boost the volume level for quiet tracks. This is especially important because the dsp EQ in dMC does not feature a boost or gain slider (even though the dAP EQ does). dMC on it's own will provide a certain amount of volume normalization but this may not be enough for your purposes.

As for saving EQ presets back and forth between dAP and dMC, I have done some poking around. You should be able to use the same EQ presets in dAP and dMC (these are saved as .deq files). However, if you set an EQ in dMC dsp EQ, this will not affect whatever EQ setting is in dAP. If you change your dAP EQ setting, this will not affect the "default" dsp EQ setting that will be displayed in dMC dsp. The "default" EQ setting for dAP will be the last EQ setting used in dAP. The "default" EQ setting in dMC dsp EQ will be whatever the last dSP EQ was. Either can use the same presets and you can custom make and save these presets.

However, I did find a curious anomaly which may explain part of your problem. If you create a custom EQ setting in dAP and save it as (for example) myeq, it will be saved as myeq.deq in the Equalizer Presets folder located in drive:/program files/illustrate/dBpowerAMP. And any time you want to call it up again for re-use in dAP you open the EQ, click on the load button and there it will be.
BUT, if you open dMC and open up the dsp's, select the graphic equalizer the custom myeq setting will not be on the list of EQ presets listed if you click on the Pre-set button. Further, if you click on the Load button it will also not appear. The reason it will not is because the Load button will automatically open the folder of the track(s) you are trying to convert. What you can do is to browse to the location of your pre-sets and then you can access the custom preset.
The situation is even more confusing if you create and save a custom EQ preset in the dMC dsp EQ. Because the dMC dsp EQ will default save a custom EQ in the same folder as the track(s) it is trying to convert. This means that if you open dAP and look for that custom EQ setting, you will not see i because it is not stored in the EQ Presets folder. But you can browse to the location of the music files and hope to locate it. But even more annoying is that if you need to find the custom preset to re-set the dMC dsp EQ for a music file in a different folder, you will also not see your saved custom EQ (unless you browse to the location of the music file you were working with originally-if you default saved-or to whatever location you saved the preset). It would appear that the dMC dsp EQ should default access and save to the Equalizer Preset folder, but it does not. (I will point out that this is using dMC 11.5rc either 1 or 2).

So I do think you helped pinpoint a bug (assuming there's no overriding good reason for storing custom dsp EQ settings with the music files). You may have already noticed that both dAP and dMC allow you to use WinAmp EQF settings although you will have to browse to their saved location(s) to access these. (I hadn't noticed this before, but I don't often use EQ and I use WinAmp only very rarely - not bragging, I don't like WinAmp's habit of stealing file associations and I am so used to the dAP interface that the WinAmp interface is rather uncomfortable, just as I presume that habitual WinAmp users may find the dAP interface a little off-putting). Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Best wishes,
Bill

[whitehouse]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

So are you saying that if you find an EQ setting you like when playing a track through dAP, you would like to use the same EQ setting in dMC when you convert that track to prepare it for burning? And two of the problems you are looking at are: 1) that dAP is sort of unnaturally bright and that this makes it more difficult to find the correct EQ setting for your conversions because when the converted files are burned and played they do not sound like the files you heard in dAP; and 2) if you set and save an EQ setting in dAP you either cannot access it in dMC or you find it altered?

Yes.

Also, yes for (1).

For (2), "set, save, and load" in the Power Pack failed, or was sometimes altered, but usable.

Volume Normalization - I adjusted a few manually as expected.

However, I did find a curious anomaly

Exactly, (I don't have time to check, but from what I read, you've run thru it) ... If I remember correctly, dAP pointed to its own program folder for deq files each time it was opened. This caused irritation & loss of time. Winamp however, pointed where I put it, and stayed there. Once set, Power Pack pointed there also, and stayed put. This was a necessity.

Thanks again.

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[xoas]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

If I remember correctly, dAP pointed to its own program folder for deq files each time it was opened.

My experience is that if you open the dAP EQ and click on the load button it will by default seek to display .deq settings only but it will default look in the last folder it was pointed to. So if you last used settings from the WinAmp EQF folder for the dAP EQ, that is the folder it will open and all you have to do is set "Files of Type" to WinAmp EQF files.

One other anomaly is that if you use a WinAmp EQF preset in a dAP skin with a 20 slider EQ, the EQF settings will be applied to only the first 10 sliders of the 20 slider EQ. This is a vastly different result. This is also true of deq settings created on a 10-band dAP skin or the 10 band dAP Options menu EQ. Likewise, if you create a custom deq setting in dAP in a skin with a 20 band EQ and you try to use the same setting in a dAP skin which has only a 10 band EQ, what will load is the first 10 slider settings-it will not try to recreate the spectrum of the 20 band EQ in applying it to the 10 band slider. This may be why you thought certain presets were not being preserved properly (technically they were being saved properly but they were not being applied properly when you tried to use them in an EQ with more/fewer sliders than the EQ in which the custom EQ settings were created).

Once set, Power Pack pointed there also, and stayed put.

If you are saving your EQF files in the same folder as the music you are converting, this would be true. I found, however, that if you start up a file to convert in dMC, click on dsp effects, select the Graphic Equalizer dsp and click on load, the Load Graphic Equalizer Positions window (from where the program looks for deq or EQF settings) will ALWAYS open the folder containing the music you are converting. Maybe this is just a difference between your version of dMC and my own.

Anyway, thanks for helping identify these issues.

Best wishes,
Bill

[Craze]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

The next dAP skin I am creating will have 18 sliders...

I've updated my latest skin Magnum to the equalizer-ically correct 18-band EQ.

Best wishes

[Spoon]

Re: No praise here (feedback)

I really need to allocate some time to get the current dAP release out of beta, will make a push in the next month (new skin).