Ripping Bootleg Copies

[monsterjazzlick]

Hi folks,

I have ripped around 100 x CDs now (which is about a fifth of my collection).

I have realised that maybe 4 or 5 of my CDs are BOOTLEG copies. The artwork is a photocopy and when opened in dBpa no data is showing (as would be expected). These are discs I have bought unwittingly on eBay over the years. It is only recently that I made such findings. Had I have known before then I would have left negative f/b for the seller.

But, moving on, I wanted to ask if members rip bootleg copies to their collection, please? I ask for two reasons:

1 - They are illegal!;

2 - I have heard that when such copies are burned (ie. by the seller), because they have not been manufactured/engineered by a professional/reputable company, then the discs contain artefacts. And so when you play back these discs through your stereo equipment they can cause damage to the speakers because the recordings have spikes! Although the ear may not be able to detect such inferiors, they are certainly present. I believe it is something relating to the ripping s/w placing a '0' when it cannot detect (or is uncertain about) any audio activity/information?

Anyway, all science spared, I understand bootlegs can damage your gear?

Many thanks,

Paul

[Dat Ei]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

[INDENT]1 - They are illegal!;

This decision is up to you, especially if you know that these CDs are illegal.

2 - I have heard that ...

...

Anyway, all science spared, I understand bootlegs can damage your gear?

From my point of you - that is what the music industry want us to make believe. As long as you do not hear your music at a ridiculous volume level, I see no reason, why those "illegal bits" which are still in the dynamic range of the Red book standard should harm your gear.


Dat Ei

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

This decision is up to you, especially if you know that these CDs are illegal.

From my point of you - that is what the music industry want us to make believe. As long as you do not hear your music at a ridiculous volume level, I see no reason, why those "illegal bits" which are still in the dynamic range of the Red book standard should harm your gear.

Hi Dat Ei,

So you think the "damaging your gear" statement might just be a myth, so as to ward off us CD collectors from purchasing such versions? In other words, it is purely designed to help the record industry maintain high profits; as opposed to protecting the consumers expensive equipment?

Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

Hi Dat Ei,

So you think the "damaging your gear" statement might just be a myth, so as to ward off us CD collectors from purchasing such versions? In other words, it is purely designed to help the record industry maintain high profits; as opposed to protecting the consumers expensive equipment?

Paul

Hi Paul,

I think you are more likely to damage your gear, from a rip from a legally bought, Copy Control, non-Redbook, disc.

Play it quietly, and in the unlikely event of any "illegal bits", causing spikes, stop playing it!

Morally, it's your judgement call.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

Hi Paul,

I think you are more likely to damage your gear, from a rip from a legally bought, Copy Control, non-Redbook, disc.

Play it quietly, and in the unlikely event of any "illegal bits", causing spikes, stop playing it!

Morally, it's your judgement call.

Thanks Oggy,

I would not purchase a CD/DVD if I knew it was a fake. But people on eBay seem to easily slip through the net.

I have ripped the bootlegs but not yet played them. I may just delete them. I have a crappy old mp3 player I can use with a cheap set of Skull Candy phones if I want to listen to them. Otherwise, my usual playback gear is far to valuable to be risking any possible damage!

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

Hi,

Because these CDs are listed (in Discogs) as 'unofficial', does this mean that they are bootleg, please?:

https://www.discogs.com/Miles-Davis-...elease/1062529

https://www.discogs.com/Miles-Davis-...elease/9631456

I ask because I inadvertently purchased copies of these CDs on eBay sometime ago and recently discovered them to be fake!

Thanks,

Paul

[schmidj]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

I think the moral aspect depends on what the artist or producer feels. It is very well known that the Grateful Dead encouraged bootlegs. Now they are taking some of the better ones, apparently purchased from the person who recorded them, remastering them and making them available for sale, at least from what I read in the trade press.

In parts of the Caribbean the music industry has disintegrated to the degree where some, particularly lesser known, artists give their recordings to the "pirates" to include on their CDs, as there is no other way for them to get CDs for sale. They attempt to make their money from live appearances, not media sales. And after biting my tongue and purchasing a couple of the "pirate" CDs when I was there, I also found that most of the music was available for free download from promoters who represent the artists. They consider it a promotion tool now. So it depends...

[garym]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

2 - I have heard that when such copies are burned (ie. by the seller), because they have not been manufactured/engineered by a professional/reputable company, then the discs contain artefacts. And so when you play back these discs through your stereo equipment they can cause damage to the speakers because the recordings have spikes! Although the ear may not be able to detect such inferiors, they are certainly present. I believe it is something relating to the ripping s/w placing a '0' when it cannot detect (or is uncertain about) any audio activity/information?

This is nonsense of course.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

This is nonsense of course.

Gary, Well that's what I read/heard! Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

I think the moral aspect depends on what the artist or producer feels. It is very well known that the Grateful Dead encouraged bootlegs. Now they are taking some of the better ones, apparently purchased from the person who recorded them, remastering them and making them available for sale, at least from what I read in the trade press.

In parts of the Caribbean the music industry has disintegrated to the degree where some, particularly lesser known, artists give their recordings to the "pirates" to include on their CDs, as there is no other way for them to get CDs for sale. They attempt to make their money from live appearances, not media sales. And after biting my tongue and purchasing a couple of the "pirate" CDs when I was there, I also found that most of the music was available for free download from promoters who represent the artists. They consider it a promotion tool now. So it depends...

Hi Schmidj,

Many of the Jaco Pastrious (Bassist) recordings from his latter years were made via members of the audience documenting his local gigs in the mid-1980s using a Sony Walkman recorder. And I am pretty sure that the same thing happened in that the record companies (eg. 'Big World Noise' and 'Jazz Point') purchased them; releasing them after cleaning them up. And charging circa 20GBP per album! For much of them, whichever way you look at it, the sessions are (with the greatest respect to Jaco) nothing more than disorganised drunken jam nights!

I did not know of those facts relating to the Caribbean music. It gives 'Pirates of the Caribbean' a whole new meaning!

Paul

[garym]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

Gary, Well that's what I read/heard! Paul

I understand. Lots of bad info out there (on lots of topics), but this is sadly particularly true in the world of digital audio reproduction. $5,000 ethernet cables anyone? The old adage, "don't believe everything you read/hear" has never been more true.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

I understand. Lots of bad info out there (on lots of topics), but this is sadly particularly true in the world of digital audio reproduction. $5,000 ethernet cables anyone? The old adage, "don't believe everything you read/hear" has never been more true.

Hi, One of the sources was actually an educational type music-production series on cable TV. I just took it as gospel. I am going to still look for legitimate copies to replace the illegal ones I unknowingly bought. I would much rather have the real McCoy at the end of the day. The bootlegs come with a flimsy photocopy sleeve with know liner notes. Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

Hi, One of the sources was actually an educational type music-production series on cable TV. I just took it as gospel. I am going to still look for legitimate copies to replace the illegal ones I unknowingly bought. I would much rather have the real McCoy at the end of the day. The bootlegs come with a flimsy photocopy sleeve with know liner notes. Paul

Judging by the picture and the fact that Discogs, won't touch Upsalla University 1971, the "original", probably didn't look very professional, either!

Fat Time is available on a well known auction site, from a well known seller, for £5.99.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Bootleg Copies

Judging by the picture and the fact that Discogs, won't touch Upsalla University 1971, the "original", probably didn't look very professional, either!

Fat Time is available on a well known auction site, from a well known seller, for £5.99.

Cheers Oggy,

Thanks for your insight.

'Upsalla University 1971' does look quite dodgy, I agree!

I will check out 'Fat Time' as you kindly suggest.

Paul