Windows OS Computer Hardware

[Tom Swaman]

I desire to upgrade my music computer system which now combines the computer and the storage. My plans include separating the computer from the storage hardware. Would you please recommend a highly reliable , high quality music computer based in the Windows OS or at least tell me where in the USA I might be able to purchase such gaedware with knowledgeable recommendations?

Thank you very much for this very important information. Please know that I intend to use this hardware with dbPowerAmp software.

Best regards,
Tpm

[garym]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

I assume you use the computer's soundcard and/or a DAC to connect the computer directly to your stereo (and thus the computer is in your listening room). Have you given thought to completely separating the computer from the listening room/stereo. For example, I use a Squeezebox system (I have several, Transporter, TOUCH, RADIO, etc.). With this, I have any old computer in a back room, basement, etc. that is connected via ethernet to my router. My music files are connected to this computer. This computer runs a program (win or mac or linux) called Logitech Media Server (LMS). LMS then "serves" my music (or internet radio, or pandora, or MOG, SPOTIFY, SiriusXm, etc.) to all the squeezebox players (that can be connected back to the router via WIFI or ethernet). The soundcard of the computer is now irrelevant to the audio stream. The squeezebox deals with FLAC, mp3, aac, apple lossless, etc. The Squeezebox player is near the stereo and connected to the stereo. The TOUCH is a nice player, natively handles up to 24/96 files, etc. The DAC in the TOUCH is quite good, or you can use the TOUCH S/PDIF or Optical out to feed a separate DAC. If you have several SB players in your home (as I do) you can play different things (from this single computer server) at the same time or you can perfectly sync two or more players. And I can control all of this from either my iphone or ipad (ipeng app), a Squeezebox CONTROLLER, any computer on my home network, etc.

Anyhow...just a thought in terms of replacing an existing computer system for audio. I don't work for squeezebox, just a long-term happy user. I have 70,000+ FLAC tracks at my fingertips 24/7 in every room of the house and my wife is happy as can be with access to various internet radio stations.

[Tom Swaman]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

Garym,

Many thanks for your great and thorough reply.

Gary, I use a very similar system to yours at present. I have three Logitech Squeezebox Touch operating four systems with two discrete DACs. I control the system using the Logitech Squeezebox server on a seperate computer or on two 7 inch ACER ICONIA 100 TAB with the Android Logitech app installed. I also use my cell phone with the same app, but the 7 inch tablet is just that much easier to use for selecting music due to its larger screen. I use WI-FI for control and ethernet for the music. I have jusy over 2300 albums and about 50,000 files. Yew, my wife also loves this system and she is not afraid to use the controls whereas she tends to back away from most electronic components.
I have used 96kbps/24bit files with total success. Frankly, these sound better than do most CDs at 44.1 kbps/16bit or less, but I am uncertain that the small incremental benefit in sound warrants the very large increase in memory required. I am convinced that the state-of-the-art 192kbps/24 \bit selections are liottle more than memory hogs. I am certain that must ears and most equipment are of insufficient quality to benefit from these huge music files.
So here is my problem. I now have a proprietary and homemade combined Qindows 7 computer including mirrored hard drives for my music. The computer does not normally incorporate a screen, keyboard or mouse. The ststem includes one Plextor drive operating with the dbPowerAmp Batch Ripper. The fan in the "blackbox" holding this gear is a bit loud and habitually attracting lots of dust that impacts cooling efficiency. The "blackbox" is a bit quirky and regularly needs rebooting, often with its mains plug detached for a short moment. Of course this totally disrupts any playlist in operation.
So, I want to switch to a dedicated computer and music storage system inseparate packages. I feel there is way too much chance of messing up my music by making a computer error with my present combined "blackbox.". A separate computer will also allow me to readily upgrade software, adjust settings, etc. I cannot easily do this now. I truly ran into trouble some time ago with the Logitech software that did not work. I actually have switched software three times and now my version 7.6.1 seems to be highly stable. In summary, I cannot readily change software or even access this, hence my desire to have separate and dedicated computer and NAS or equal.

Gary, I would appreciate any comments and suggestions you can offer and I thank you for these.

Best regards,
Tom

[garym]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

Hi Tom, A couple of thoughts:

1. For a bit more background (context) I have about 70,000 mostly FLAC files in my system, and when done ripping will have closer to about 200,000. My setup is as follows:

Location 1: VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) > LMS 7.7.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
Location 2: VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio)
Office: Win7(64) > LMS 7.7.1 > SqueezePlay
Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver
Controllers: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop
Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag

2. As you can see, I'm obviously a fan of the Vortexbox approach. I'm a long time computer user, but not a programer, technician, engineer, etc. Just a user. I like the simplicity of the Vortexbox approach (and I actually purchased vortexbox appliances (VBA), but one can install the vortexbox system on almost any old computer). Vortexbox is simply a packaged linux system that is customized to work very efficiently as a music or video server (and can work with Squeezeboxes, SONOS, and any DLNA system). It is headless (just a computer box, stuck in a back utility closet, connected to my network via ethernet). Everything I do with the VBA is done via my laptop -- I simply accesss the webGUI of the VBA via a web browser on my laptop. But frankly, there is not much I need to do with my VBA. It is on 24/7, month after month after month. It does have a nice backup utility (connect USB drive to VBA and click backup. It does an incremental (rsync) backup, so that once backed up once, future backups are fast as they only pick up additions/deletions. And as I point out in your other thread, backups are critical. I have all my files backed up to probably 8 different drives stored in 3 different locations in 2 different cities! I do rip everything with dbpa, then copy over the network to my VBA.

3. Of course the beauty of the Squeezebox approach is that there is NOTHING about the audio that is affected by the computer serving the music files. The serving computer doesn't even need a soundcard. So all the problems/issues regarding soundcards, data conversion, etc. of PC audio are removed from the equation. And the Transporter and TOUCH players I use either have excellent DACs or I feed an excellent DAC.

4. Regarding 24/96 and 24/192. You already have 24/96 capabilities with the TOUCH players. Some of the 24/96 files I have do sound a bit better in a double blind test for me, but only marginally, and in all these cases it is because the 24/96 files are actually coming from better masters (that is the 16/44.1 files are not as well mastered as the 24/96 albums). Many folks have done double blind ABX tests on 24/96 vs 16/44.1 files FROM THE SAME MASTER and not been able to detect a difference. Regarding 24/192, audiophool subjective nonsense aside, I'm not sure that there are any human beings that can detect a 24/192 file as different from a 24/96 in a double-blind test. This said, the VBA can play 24/384 files via its built in "Vortexbox Player" (which can be fed by the LMS software as if it is another SB player). Then this can be fed to an external DAC from the VBA. I don't use the VB player because I do NOT want the computer anywhere near my listening room.

5. I guess I'm still a bit confused about what you are trying to accomplish with the new computer in conjuction with your blackbox. In my personal opinion, you need almost any computer, as long as it is far away from listening station. And then you need harddrives with your data connected to that computer. Then you already have the SB touch units that can play 24/96 natively. And if you happen to have 24/192 files, LMS will down sample these to 24/96 automatically (and again, I personally wouldn't purchase 24/192 files). The other key is that you need a good backup plan. As I mention in your other thread, this is NOT accomplished with a NAS with RAID. And the computer you use for ripping with dbpa can be an entirely different computer (I use my dell laptop for most of my rips...the beauty of dbpa is the accuraterip function makes the choice of ripping drive almost irrelevant if it works at all!).

If you must have the computer in your listening room, I'd go with something fanless. If you want fanless and small, look at the FitPC line of microcomputers. Again, particular computer or particular disks are not that critical. They tend to either work out of the box or they don't. But all computers and disks will eventually fail...that's just the nature of the beast.

Sorry if I'm missing your exact objective. Please follow up with clarification. But again, I'm not really a computer guy, just a user who's had dozens of computers going back to my original APPLE II.

[Tom Swaman]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

Gary,

The problem is not ou. The problem is me. I grew up before computers were invented and my knowledge is fragmentary at best. I also am having trouble learning as so much of this stuff is commercial and rapidly changing.

With that introduction, I want a new music ripping and storage systemfor a sizable quantity of FLAC files. I need one and preferably two good CD ripping drives, the storage system and a Windows-based computer to enable running dbPowerAmp Logitech Music Server and to enable ripping with the CD Batch Ripper and with the CD Drive in an external computer. This system needs to enable me to stream my music through LSB Touch and external DACs. I want the most reliable hardware I can obtain providing I can afford this. I hope this answers your question. I also would appreciate any recommendation for one or more reliable vendors in the USA who might sell the hardware and also provide recommendations so I can learn what to assemble and how to do this.

Gary, this is what I am trying to accomplish. I simply must replace and upgrade my current system ahead of the Logitech Squeezeboxes. One other issue. I sometimes run into trouble ripping a CD. I can usually get around the trouble by ripping this in my comouter drive at slow speed. How do I assure myself of buying good ripping dtives so I do not have more than the bare minimum of problems?

Thank you for your patience, understanding and assistance.

Best regards,
Tom

[garym]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

The speed of the ripping drive for any modern drive is not typically a problem at all. In general, most of your objectives can be met with about any modern desktop computer that has a couple of CD/DVD drives and reasonable harddrive storage. Nothing special needed. This is the beauty of dbpa and accuraterip. However you mention "batch ripping", which if I'm interpreting your use of this term correctly, refers to using some sort of "robot" to feed a stack of CDs to your computer without any human intervention. There is such hardware, but I have no knowledge of it. If you don't really mean this, and you just want to insert a CD in a machine manually, and then have dbpa rip it to FLAC, add metadata/artwork, etc., then again, any decent desktop (or even laptop) will work.

In my case I have separated the ripping and storage/serving function. That is, I rip on a windows Dell laptop, nothing special (again, the benefit of dbpa is that the old days of worrying about the very "best" optical CD drive" like a plexor, etc. are gone). Then ON A SEPARATE COMPUTER I store my music and run the streaming program (currently 70,000 FLAC files, but will be much more eventually when done ripping). I'm using LMS to feed my various squeezebox players.

This separate computer storing my music and running the streaming program is a vortexbox appliance. This is a small computer (with no monitor or no keyboard) that can be sitting anywhere in your house as long as connected to the network via ethernet (e.g., right next to your router). This computer stays on 24/7 and feeds all my audio needs. A vortexbox can also rip your CDs automatically, but I prefer dbpa. I purchased both my VBAs at:

http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/Standard-VortexBox-Appliance_c3.htm

You don't need this separate computer for storage/serving, if you simply take a Windows desktop (the one you could use for dbpa ripping) and keep it somewhere OTHER THAN your main listening room and run LMS on this computer for serving your music. You can either leave the computer on 24/7 or use "wake on lan" WOL function of the computer to let it go to sleep when not being used, but when you select something to play on the squeezebox, it will send a "wake up" signal to your computer and turn it on automatically.

Bottom line, I have this feeling that you are trying to make this more complicated than it needs to be. You need a decent windows computer with a couple of CD drives, lots of internal HD storage, connected via ethernet to your local network, running LMS to feed your squeezeboxes. Then you need some eSata or USB external drives to connect to this computer to use to hold your data backups. Store these elsewhere except when doing backups.

p.s. I never saw a computer until I was in my 20s...I was raised with transistor radios, black & white TV, and rear-wheel drive cars. ;-)

[garym]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

and also keep in mind, that no matter what you use, there will always be CDs that are difficult to rip (errors, scratches, etc.). It is rare, but this is true even with some brand new CDs due to manufacturing flaws.

[Tom Swaman]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

Gary,

I understand what you have very generously shared and I thanlk you. I have only one last item. Is your urging that the computer and music system be in separate rooms only to avoid any noise created by the computer fans or are there additional reasons?

Thanks again,
Tom

[garym]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

Gary,

I understand what you have very generously shared and I thanlk you. I have only one last item. Is your urging that the computer and music system be in separate rooms only to avoid any noise created by the computer fans or are there additional reasons?

Thanks again,
Tom

yep, just noise from computer fans and harddrdive running, etc. Of course there are fanless systems and very quiet harddrives. So not a big deal if computer is quiet enough for you. But this is one of the reasons I like my SqueezeBox system (the player, the SB, can be far away from computer and the SB player is not using ANY of the soundcard/audio playback aspects of the computer, with all the associated potential issues). And at my weekend place, my Vortexbox Appliance (computer server) is right next to my stereo and in the same room (because I mostly have one large room in the cottage) and it doesn't bother me, even though it does have a fan because it is quiet. I guess I'm really speaking to the "perfect" listening room situation, which not many of us have anyhow....

[Tom Swaman]

Re: Windows OS Computer Hardware

Thanks again Gary. Have a great weekend. Regards, Tom