CDTOC tag for CD Extra discs is different between dBpoweramp and CUERipper

[Tenorfan]

I did some experiments with the CDTOC tag and by chance noticed that for some CDs dBpoweramp and CUERipper are in disagreement about the value for this tag. After some more digging it seems that only for CD Extra discs differences are seen.

As an example, this is the TOC of my copy of Sting's "Brand New Day".

TOC as logged by cdrecord

first: 1 last 11
track:   1 lba:         0 (        0) 00:02:00 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:   2 lba:     26790 (   107160) 05:59:15 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:   3 lba:     48237 (   192948) 10:45:12 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:   4 lba:     71117 (   284468) 15:50:17 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:   5 lba:     93850 (   375400) 20:53:25 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:   6 lba:    118230 (   472920) 26:18:30 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:   7 lba:    139885 (   559540) 31:07:10 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:   8 lba:    141455 (   565820) 31:28:05 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:   9 lba:    166835 (   667340) 37:06:35 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:  10 lba:    191555 (   766220) 42:36:05 adr: 1 control: 0 mode: -1
track:  11 lba:    231470 (   925880) 51:28:20 adr: 1 control: 4 mode: 2
track:lout lba:    273527 (  1094108) 60:49:02 adr: 1 control: 4 mode: -1

TOC as logged by CUERipper

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  5:57.15 |         0    |    26789  
        2  |  5:57.15 |  4:45.72 |     26790    |    48236  
        3  | 10:43.12 |  5:05.05 |     48237    |    71116  
        4  | 15:48.17 |  5:03.08 |     71117    |    93849  
        5  | 20:51.25 |  5:25.05 |     93850    |   118229  
        6  | 26:16.30 |  4:48.55 |    118230    |   139884  
        7  | 31:05.10 |  0:20.70 |    139885    |   141454  
        8  | 31:26.05 |  5:38.30 |    141455    |   166834  
        9  | 37:04.35 |  5:29.45 |    166835    |   191554  
       10  | 42:34.05 |  6:20.15 |    191555    |   220069  
       11  | 51:26.20 |  9:20.57 |    231470    |   273526

For this CD the rippers write the following CDTOCs:

• CUERipper: A+96+693C+BD03+11663+16F30+1CE6C+22303+22925+28C49 +2ECD9+388C4+42D0D
• dBPoweramp: A+96+693C+BD03+11663+16F30+1CE6C+22303+22925+28C49 +2EE05+35BA6+42D0D

After checking by hand, to me it seems the tag written by CUERipper is correct and the one by dBpoweramp, well, needs an explanation.

I repeated the rips with the respective tools and of course for both got exactly the same results. I checked some other CDs and for most the generated tags are identical, except the few other CD Extra discs I have. For these, the pattern for the differences seems to be:

• it's only the LBAs for the last audio track and for the data track that are different in the encoded CDTOC, all other tracks are ok
• the LBA for the last audio track is too high in the dBpoweramp tag by 300; this was the case for all CD Extra discs I could check
• the LBA for the data track is too low by 11550; this also was the case for all CD Extra discs I could check

All of this was checked using dBpoweramp releases 2024-11-04 and 2025-02-07, both are affected. All rips were done with the same disc in the same drive with correct offset setting, in case this would matter.

Let me know in case further examples would be helpful.

Cheers!

[Spoon]

• CUERipper: A+96+693C+BD03+11663+16F30+1CE6C+22303+22925+28C49 +2ECD9+388C4+42D0D
• dBPoweramp: A+96+693C+BD03+11663+16F30+1CE6C+22303+22925+28C49 +2EE05+35BA6+42D0D

These two differ before the datatrack, 2ECD9 vs 2EE05, that is track 10 start, and track 10 looks to be an audio track.

There are two ways of reading the TOC (LBA, or MSF), certain drives return different TOCs depending on which way is requested, and no it should never happen and is a bug in the drive firmware, we have seen this. It could be this.

[Tenorfan]

In the meantime, I looked at some more CD extra discs and also tried all of them on another drive.

The new results confirm what I wrote yesterday. To summarize:

• For all CD extra discs I have, dBpoweramp writes a CDTOC tag that is different than the one written by CUERipper or calculated by hand.
• Switching from a MATSHITA drive to a TEAC drive does not make a difference. For each of the CDs I checked, the two drives give the same results.
• In the CDTOC, it's always the 3rd and the 2nd entries from the end which are different, corresponding to the last audio track and the data track. The LBA for the last audio track is too high by 300, and the LBA for the data track is too low by 11550.
• The TOC listed in dBpoweramp's extraction log is correct. It's only the CDTOC tag that has these differences.

The good thing is that it really seems to occur only with CD extra discs. Up to now I've tested 5 and I might have 2 or 3 more, but that's all. For these I can fix the tags by hand.

[Spoon]

Will make a note to look at next update

[Tenorfan]

Some days ago, I upgraded my dBpoweramp installation. When I checked the list of changes I saw some notes regarding changes related to TOC handling, so I decided to check again.

I tested the current release 2025.07.21 with the same CD-Extra discs I used some months ago. Looking at the CDTOC tags for these discs I see that the entry for the last audio track is correct now, but the entry for the data track is still wrong.

This is the CDTOC tag I'm getting with the latest dBpoweramp release for Sting's "Brand New Day"

A+96+693C+BD03+11663+16F30+1CE6C+22303+22925+28C49+2ECD9+35C3C+42D0D

This is the TOC listed in "Secure Ripping Log.txt" as written by dBpoweramp

Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start LBA | End LBA
-------------------------------------------------
    1 |  0:02:00 |  5:57:14 |         0 |   26789
    2 |  5:59:15 |  4:45:71 |     26790 |   48236
    3 | 10:45:12 |  5:05:04 |     48237 |   71116
    4 | 15:50:17 |  5:03:07 |     71117 |   93849
    5 | 20:53:25 |  5:25:04 |     93850 |  118229
    6 | 26:18:30 |  4:48:54 |    118230 |  139884
    7 | 31:07:10 |  0:20:69 |    139885 |  141454
    8 | 31:28:05 |  5:38:29 |    141455 |  166834
    9 | 37:06:35 |  5:29:44 |    166835 |  191554
   10 | 42:36:05 |  6:20:14 |    191555 |  220069
   11 |     Data |    Track |    220070 |  273526

Compare this to the CDTOC for the same disc as written by CUERipper

A+96+693C+BD03+11663+16F30+1CE6C+22303+22925+28C49+2ECD9+388C4+42D0D

And the TOC as logged by CUERipper

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  5:57.15 |         0    |    26789  
        2  |  5:57.15 |  4:45.72 |     26790    |    48236  
        3  | 10:43.12 |  5:05.05 |     48237    |    71116  
        4  | 15:48.17 |  5:03.08 |     71117    |    93849  
        5  | 20:51.25 |  5:25.05 |     93850    |   118229  
        6  | 26:16.30 |  4:48.55 |    118230    |   139884  
        7  | 31:05.10 |  0:20.70 |    139885    |   141454  
        8  | 31:26.05 |  5:38.30 |    141455    |   166834  
        9  | 37:04.35 |  5:29.45 |    166835    |   191554  
       10  | 42:34.05 |  6:20.15 |    191555    |   220069  
       11  | 51:26.20 |  9:20.57 |    231470    |   273526

I think the TOC as listed in dBpoweramps extraction log is wrong. As per the log, the data track seems to start with the sector directly following after the last audio track, while in reality there is the lead-out of the first session, followed by the lead-in and the pre-gap of the second session, comprising 11400 sectors. These sectors are not used for audio or data payload and therefore this gap should be reflected in the TOC. The TOC written by CUERipper shows this gap of 11400 sectors. The differing start sectors of the data track in the TOCs fully explains the differing entries in the CDTOC tags.

This pattern shows in all of 5 CD-Extra discs I checked. They all have this gap of 11400 sectors.

[Spoon]

Will check next time on CD Extra