Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

[Sugar Magnolia]

I've set up a dedicated XP SP3 machine (a Mac Mini, running in bot camp, not VM) for DRPA/Batch Ripper. It is connected via USB to a Baxter.

I've found that the Baxter (Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-112D) is not as good as the internal drive (Matshita CD-RW CW 8124) in terms of accuracy.

Most discs rip with all tracks accurate on the Internal in about 3.5 minutes. The same discs take 15 - 70 minutes on the Baxter with not all tracks accurate, but all accurate or secure ("check" and/or "i"). Looking at the logs, the Baxter often get hung up re-reading 1000's of frames on some tracks. I don't think this is a speed issues. I had one disc that the Baxter ripped all tracks accurate and it was a little faster than the internal. I presume that this is about the accuracy of the drive, or the handling of the ripped bits.

I understand that a big difference between these is that the Baxter is connected via USB.

Is there anything I can tweak to improve the accuracy and performance of the Baxter?

Failing that, is there a better drive that can be installed in the Baxter? Maybe a highly regarded Plextor or this Teac:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=17274

or one of these:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=18088&highlight=drive+2008

If using a drive with C2 error checking, will this work over USB?

Thanks, Pete

[bhoar]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

I've set up a dedicated XP SP3 machine (a Mac Mini, running in bot camp, not VM) for DRPA/Batch Ripper. It is connected via USB to a Baxter.

I've found that the Baxter (Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-112D) is not as good as the internal drive (Matshita CD-RW CW 8124) in terms of accuracy.

CD-only drives may have a tendency to be better at audio extraction from problem discs than single-laser combo/DVD drives due to the size of read spot. At least that's the theory, no scientific tests that I know of.

Most discs rip with all tracks accurate on the Internal in about 3.5 minutes. The same discs take 15 - 70 minutes on the Baxter with not all tracks accurate, but all accurate or secure ("check" and/or "i"). Looking at the logs, the Baxter often get hung up re-reading 1000's of frames on some tracks. I don't think this is a speed issues. I had one disc that the Baxter ripped all tracks accurate and it was a little faster than the internal. I presume that this is about the accuracy of the drive, or the handling of the ripped bits.

In this case, it is probably best to have your secure settings for the pioneer set to abort very early in the re-rip process, which will cause the disc to be rejected. You can manually rip those in a better drive.

I understand that a big difference between these is that the Baxter is connected via USB.

That is probably not the issue here.

Is there anything I can tweak to improve the accuracy and performance of the Baxter?

If the Pioneer firmware isn't up to date, there's a small chance that updating it to the most recent will help. But it unlikely. Pioneer drives aren't known as good CD rippers, in fact, they are generally considered poor rippers. They are used in robots primarily because they are very good at DVD burning.

Note: if the firmware isn't one of the standard Pioneer consumer firmwares, but instead is a duplicator-specific firmware, then make sure you only get firmware updates from the supplier. Again, it is unlikely a firmware update will help you with audio extraction problems on Pioneer drives.

Failing that, is there a better drive that can be installed in the Baxter? Maybe a highly regarded Plextor or this Teac:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=17274

or one of these:
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthre...ght=drive+2008

The Samsungs I posted about are OK, but I suspect they may be over-reporting C2 errors, which means damaged discs take a very long time. The jury is currently out on those.

The Teac mentioned in a slot-loading laptop drive, which is physically incompatible with the baxter, which needs a tray loading desktop drive.

If using a drive with C2 error checking, will this work over USB?

Yes. Spoon has spent time addressing some of the older problems reported with C2 over USB and firewire bridges. As far as I am aware, the only remaining C2-from-external-drive problem is the custom firmware firewire bridge inside the XL1B changer family.

-brendan

[Sugar Magnolia]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

Thanks.

I think that I will try the Top rated Plextor, CD-R PX-230A.

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=18088&highlight=drive+2008

Is there any reason this drive wouldn't work in the Baxter?

I really do appreciate your help.

Thanks, Pete

[bhoar]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

Hard to say. My only concern would be tray extension clearing the faceplate. I believe the PX-230a units I have do clear the faceplate, but as I'm currently in the midst of receiving, storing and cataloging over 100 boxed robots, it's hard for me to check this week...

-brendan

[Sugar Magnolia]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

Thanks. I could not find a 230a, so have ordered a 240a. Hopefully it will perform close to as well.

I did find a Plextor CD-R PX-W1610A in an old machine and am trying that now.

It works, but is old and grinds when opening and closing. Running first performance tests on it now.

What do you mean about the tray extension clearing the faceplace? The front of my Baxter is the IDE drive, there is no faceplate (as on some PCs).

Do you mean the sides of the input hopper? I think this is below the opening for the drive.

At anyrate, thanks for the thoughts and words. I'll report back on how the W1610 does as well as the PLEXTOR - CD-R PX-240A when it arrives.

Thanks, Pete

[bhoar]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

Unfortunately the 240a did not test nearly as well as the 230a. Neither of these are what is referred to as a "true plextor" since Plextor now outsources the hardware development and only customizes the firmware. But while the 230a has tested well for audio extraction, the 240a has not.

The faceplate I am talking about is the faceplate of the drive. Due to computers having smaller and smaller form factors, contemporary drives often do not push the tray circle entirely past the plastic faceplate of the drive if viewed from above. This is fine for desktop use where a user places the disc in the tray with a diagonal motion, but robots need to be able to place the disc in the tray with a fully vertical motion and therefore a lot of contemporary drives don't work with robots without physical modifications (faceplate cutting or removal, even sometimes metal casing cutting).

These issues are also discussed on the wiki page I put together a while back: http://hyperdiscs.pbwiki.com/Hardware%20--%20Drives

-brendan

[Sugar Magnolia]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

Got it, thanks. Will keep looking for a 230a. Any ideas where to look?

My W1610A is working really well. It seem as accurate as the internal drive, is faster than the internal drive, and supports C2 error.

Understood on the tray clearing the faceplate of the drive.

Thanks, Pete

[Spoon]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

http://www.esaitech.com/commerce/ccp17990-plextor-px-230a-52x32x52x--internal-atapi--ide-cd-px-230a-17990.htm

But I am 90% sure no plextors like the USB bridge of the baxtor, you can put your own bridge in (leading the USB on the robot to control it).

[dvdr]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

Hi Spoon
may I jump in on the discussion and ask a question on your comment?

I just recently bought a used minicubis, and built in a Plextor CD-RW PX-W1210A, that I still have. It seems to work well (ripped about 250 discs in the last days so far), even though I noted a few times (when changing discs), Windows seemed to loose USB-contact - there is this "plung"-sound, when you detach/reattach a USB device. But the batchripping process always seem to carry on...

Is that what you are talking about? Am I just lucky, that the Minicubis uses another "bridge", that seems to work with that specific plextor? How would we see, whether the USB-Bridge does not "like" a drive - would the Baxter (aka Minicubis aka Pico aka....) refrain to work at all? Or would it produce errors, that we are not likely to see at all, but would affect extraction/audio-quality of our rips? Are there any applications to test that?

And further more - mind explaining, what you mean by "put in your own bridge"? Where would we get such a bridge? Ain't that a single device in the Baxter, that also controls the robot?

Thanks and, btw., a good new 2009 for everybody!

[Spoon]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

You would take a USB >> IDE adaptor (lots on Ebay) and plug in the back of the drive, removing the existing IDE cable.

The issue was it would either work, or not at all.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

A quick follow up.

The 230a does seem to work with the Baxter. It does open fully, so that the arm can lift the discs straight up.

Also, ir appears to work with the usb bridge. IE, wondows ees the drive ok.

Is there any reason to install a new bridge, as long as the drive works? Could I get better performance or fewer errors with a different bridge?

Lastly, the caching is inconstent. First test errored out. 2nd test said it doesn't support caching. 3rd test said it supports caching and then coudln't determine cache size due to inconsistency in the results.

What should the cache size be for the 230A?

Should I be concerned about the variety of results? Could these be caused by a bad drive (bought used)? Or, could it be the usb bridge?

Thanks, Pete

[dvdr]

Re: Baxter Performance, Drive Recommendations

@ Sugar Magnolia

I did some experimenting with different drives - the top-rated Plextor DVD-716a from the drive list in this forum would NOT work, only the older 1210a would work with my Minicubis, so I guess, the same restrictions would apply to your Baxter.
I tried to build in a different USB-Bridge - I had one of those external USB-Enclosures for drives, that worked with the 716a, so I just stripped its USB-bridge and tried to mount it into the Minicubis.
I could not get it to work for the following reasons:
- in the Minicubis, the USB-Bridge is connected via a 4-wire-plug: 2 cables for power (hot and ground), 2 for the USB-connection (I guess, also using the ground-wire from power as the "third"(Shield) cable).
- On MY bridge, I only have a 2 wires for power, the USB-connector is sitting on the bridge itself.

So, when mounting the new bridge and connecting USB to my Computer, I could get the drive to be recognized, but Windows would not recognize the "Robot"-part of the Minicubis - logical, since that part is not USB-ed to the computer. I did not try to attach a second USB-cable, but I guess, the USB-wiring must be routed through the other PCB inside the Minicubis by using the 4-wire-connector anyway... but then, I'm not sure, whether this very PCB would accept the new USB-bridge - that's up to speculation..... To be honest: I was too afraid to unsolder the UBS-Connector from the PCB...