Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

[Spies]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Kretch,

For a manual you can try this one.

I ordered a few of the Kodaks myself and plan on replacing my Sony XL1B's as well. :smile2: Should have them next week.

Steven

[kretch]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Thanks Steven!

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

And for the record, here's the difference between a standard Microboards MicroOrbit and the Kodak-custom variety:

The Kodak has the following that the MicroOrbit doesn't: an external interface to a PC for the drive and robot control board, an internal USB hub, an internal USB to serial converter to the robot board, an internal USB to IDE converter for the drive, an adjusted sensor (or firmware modification) that throws errors on the Insert command when 5 or less discs are left (instead of when zero are left), a custom-firmware Teac CD-RW drive and, finally, a seriously crazy color scheme (thanks Kodak).

The MicroOrbit has the following that the Kodak doesn't: an internal duplication controller, a hard disk, upgradeable firmware, an extra LED on the front, a button on the front, a buzzer/bell, and sometimes a DVD drive instead of a CD drive in the newer units. If you want to use one of these with the batch ripper, you'll need to externalize the drive and serial interfaces yourself (hardware work). Unless you are very clever, doing so would also break the duplication functionality (always keep notes on where cables/wires go before disconnecting).

They both are:

- built to withstand a few more dings than your average robot, as the moving parts are "warded" and hard for the user to inadvertently break off.
- sometimes shipped with some parts needing a bit of adjustment. e.g. I've received some spindles where the "lock" part at the end was too easy to move or impossible to move, which required a torx screwdriver to address.
- somewhat fiddly to load and unload (less so than an XL1B, though), but you can do it well after some practice. I tend to use a modified version of the approach outlined in the manual, starting by tipping the stack slightly towards the rear of the unit as I place it in the hopper, and curving it toward the vertical as I finalize the placement as this helps avoid overtipping toward the front which causes discs to fall off the spindle.
- not capable of physically rejecting discs separate from the output stack, so you need to keep an eye on the reject column of the batch ripper and go through the stack at the end of the run to pull the rejects.
- somewhat sensitive to being on a non-flat surface due to the gravity feed system.

In any case, the linked-to manual should be helpful in giving good operating and handling advice.

[hofftodd]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

I also purchased one of the Kodak MicroOrbit robots from ebay which arrived last night. I've been playing around with it for a few hours, and here are my experiences so far.

* Getting it to run on Vista was not a slam dunk. I couldn't get the batch ripper configuration file changes to stick. I went into the configuration screen and edited the 5 command lines to use the com port that the unit showed up on (COM5), and clicked configure. If I then went into Batch Ripper and started a batch, I would get the ULCLI error saying it couldn't communicate with the com port. I noticed that back in the configuration screen the command lines would show COM1 again. So, I resorted to manually configuring the command files found in Program Files/Illustrate/Batch Ripper with a text editor. I'm not sure if this is a Vista specific problem or not.

* Now that I've got the unit working, it does a great job ripping the disks when they get into the tray.

* The robot I purchased sometimes has problems knocking the next disk off of the spindle. I can see the "black finger" comes out and touches the disk when it is supposed to, but it doesn't always bump it enough to knock it off of the spindle. Has anyone else had this problem? I'd like to know if there is a trick to setting the spindle offset in such a way that the disks always fall into the tray when they should.

* I noticed in a previous post that the Kodak units sometimes stop when there are 5 disks left. Is this something I have to worry about if I use the Kodak Kiosk drivers or only if I switch to using the MicroOrbits drivers?

Thanks,
Todd

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Hi Todd.

1. I don't use vista, and the batch ripper and the batch ripper configuration are spoon's domain, so I can't speak to this item. I am glad you were able to find a workaround, though. Good investigating skills!

2. Good.

3. Some Qs:

- What do you mean by spindle offset? As far as I am aware, there are no adjustments. You put the discs in, rotate the little spindle lock at the top 180 degrees, invert and it just goes straight in.
- Are you sure that the spindle has been properly set into place? Please scroll back to review my hints and also read the micro-orbit documentation for the official word.
- Is the device on a flat surface? The drop capability is very sensitive to the angle of placement. Also, going out on a limb: it may be possible to improve the behavior of an out-of-spec unit by mounting the unit on an incline with the front very slightly lower than the rear.
- Are the discs actually clean? Perhaps some are sticking together...
- Does it happen randomly in the middle of a spindle of discs, or does it happen more after some spindle placements than others?
- Is it possible the "wings" used to lift a disc from the tray are misadjusted and perhaps occasionally interfering with a disc drop?

4. This is only a worry if you use the Microboards-specific driver. If you use the Kodak-specific driver, it works around the problem and also beeps at you with five different beeps as it traverses the last five discs so that you know, ahead of time, that a spindle refill is necessary.

-brendan

[hofftodd]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Brendan, thanks for the quick reply. I'll try your suggestions tonight and do some more investigating. I'll report back what I find.

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Brendan, thanks for the quick reply. I'll try your suggestions tonight and do some more investigating. I'll report back what I find.

One silly question: you are putting the spindle in place with the arrow pointing forward and fully aligned with the three hex screws on the top of the hopper?

It's a silly question because I think it'd fail 100% of the time if you had it rotated to one of the two other possible positions.

-brendan

[hofftodd]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

One silly question: you are putting the spindle in place with the arrow pointing forward and fully aligned with the three hex screws on the top of the hopper?

It's a silly question because I think it'd fail 100% of the time if you had it rotated to one of the two other possible positions.

-brendan

Yep. I figured out that the arrow pointed forward on my own . My problem seems to be fine adjustment problem. Hopefully I can solve it with a couple sheets of paper under the back end of the unit. I'll let you know.

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

I'm examining the mechanism on one of mine at the moment.

Try placing the bottom of the stack (when in the unit) at about eye level and watch from the side. If you have the upper ring of the spindle/stack placed correctly, the front of the stack is slightly tipped about 2 CDs width lower than the back of the stack and the back of the stack is caught on the ~45 degree arc of black plastic, which keeps the rear slightly elevated and in-line with the push lever.

Takes practice, and always watch the first few discs to make sure they are a) dropping and b) dropping singley. If they do, then the rest of the stack should be OK.

-brendan

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Yep. I figured out that the arrow pointed forward on my own . My problem seems to be fine adjustment problem. Hopefully I can solve it with a couple sheets of paper under the back end of the unit. I'll let you know.

It's been almost 21 hours! I am beside myself with anticipation!

-brendan

[hofftodd]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Brendan,

I am running a batch right now that seems to be working. The first few test batches I did were with about 5 discs. I think that when the spindle gets lighter, it doesn't always sit down far enough for the "finger" to eject the discs. I'm on disc 5 of about 40 right now. I'll let you know if I have problems as I get down to the last 5 disks.

[hofftodd]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

On another note, do you have any suggestions on how to speed up the post-load/pre-MetaData lookup wait time? Using the Kodak robot, I seem to be waiting a couple of minutes before the MetaDat lookup occurs. Note: I have turned off all AutoPlay functionality in the Vista control panel.

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

I am running a batch right now that seems to be working. The first few test batches I did were with about 5 discs. I think that when the spindle gets lighter, it doesn't always sit down far enough for the "finger" to eject the discs. I'm on disc 5 of about 40 right now. I'll let you know if I have problems as I get down to the last 5 disks.

Yeah, that points to a placement issue. I *suspect* you won't have problems once it gets started correctly, even with the last five.

What might be happening is that the extra weight of a half to full spindle helps the settle-in-place process, whereas a small number of discs may kind of catch in a non-optimal position without the additional weight to push them into place.

You might also consider using three or four fingers to gently (gently!) press down evenly on the platter after loading. Just recognize that if you press and shift, or press too hard, you may cause discs to fall out.

On another note, do you have any suggestions on how to speed up the post-load/pre-MetaData lookup wait time? Using the Kodak robot, I seem to be waiting a couple of minutes before the MetaDat lookup occurs. Note: I have turned off all AutoPlay functionality in the Vista control panel.

For this issue, perform some tests with all of the metadata options turned off, just see what the "only accuraterip" baseline is.

My experience is that this drive+bridge is inherently slow to recognize discs, taking about 45 seconds from tray pull in to disc seen mounted in explorer on my day to day laptop (haven't tried it on a clean workstation). Not sure if the issue is the drive or bridge, but it's likely the drive.

This is one reason I've asked spoon to allow the disc recognition time in the batch ripper to be user-adjustable, so that it won't inadvertantly reject discs from slow to mount drives. For now, I'm just going to ensure that the load command for the kodak units either waits for the disc to be recognized internally or includes a long delay after load before exiting and return control to the batch ripper.

Of course, one could always try swapping bridges or drives...but the latter inherently risky (have to cut notches in the tray and alignment matters a lot).

-brendan

PS - there's also a similar delay in the unload/reject command between the pick+tray-close and the drop. this is currently in place to ensure that the pick worked and the tray closed. i may release a version that uses timing only, instead which could speed this up but be at slightly added risk for dropping the disc with the tray open (bad) or moving (horrible due to possible picker/tray collision).

[bhoar]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

My experience is that this drive+bridge is inherently slow to recognize discs, taking about 45 seconds from tray pull in to disc seen mounted in explorer on my day to day laptop (haven't tried it on a clean workstation). Not sure if the issue is the drive or bridge, but it's likely the drive.

(replying to myself)

Though, I do have to say, the Teac CD-W552DA *does* appear to handle scratched discs pretty well (my setup: accuraterip + secure + ultra 1 minimum + c2 + 256KB cache guesstimate).

I was just ripping a scratched up Motown CD-R I have to return to my ex. Some tracks had over 100 frames to re-read. And so far I've only heard one click on the worst track (it was marked insecure, of course).

So, the kodak-bundled teac seems to handle good CDs in ~2 minutes and also seems to handle problem discs that take longer than 30 minutes pretty well.

-brendan

PS - I'll also note that, a year or two ago the very same units would suddenly disconnect their own USB connection when using dbpoweramp's cd ripper with C2 on when dealing with scratched discs...something about the access pattern drove them crazy. I think spoon's recent changes to make the drive IO somewhat friendlier to unreliable usb bridges has helped quite a bit.

[jim7]

Re: Discussion of Automated CD Loaders

Does anyone have a copy of the "Microboards driver" or "Kodak driver" that have been mentioned?

Also, does anyone know what model of DVD drive is used in the stand-alone DVD version of the MicroOrbit MLDV1000? All I've been able to find is that it's a Pioneer drive. I would think that this would pretty much be a drop-in replacement to allow the Kodak kiosk duplicator to do DVDs.