skin review issue needs attention

**xoas** · March 07, 2004, 05:40 PM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

I am not sure, in my own mind, that this review requires any of the measures you have suggested although each has some merit and the decision about what measures, if any, this example might require poses some interesting questions about what qualities are important to the new skin site.
It does seem to be rather clear that the reviewer has either misunderstood the rating system for Originality, or disagrees with it, or is so infatuated with the skin that emotion has overridden logic on the topic of originality. I do wonder whether this particular scale may unintentionally encourage this sort of emotional override because many of the very finest skins will not necessarily rate highly on the originality scale and this does create a problem of cognitive dissonance for the potential reviewer who may well experience some difficulty in giving an "honest" but seemingly "low" originality rating for a skin that the reviewer really, really likes. I will admit to having similar pangs in rating some of my favorite skins (although I believe that I handled those cases differently than this reviewer has).
Apart from this issue, however, is the issue of what we want reviews to be. This sample review seems to be enthusiastic, if not particularly insightful. It is not libelous, slanderous or disrespectful. It will not create significant misunderstandings for potential skin users. If the idea for the skins site is to provide a sort of "consumer" rating for skins, I would think that we would expect to have a lot of reviews like this. I would also expect that readers would develop some degree of judgement regarding the reliability of various reviews and reviewers. I think that over time the system would tend to become self-correcting over time if it were left as an "open" reviewing system.
To restrict reviewing a some number of previously "certified" reviewers (your third alternative) should result in better reviews but it will also likely result in fewer reviews. I would expect reviews to become more "professional" but this may unintentionally restrict diversity of opinion as well. But I would be as comfortable with that system as with the "open" one. The one other downside to this approach is that if more "trivial" comments are treated as threads to a review, it will become more difficult to have and to follow an overall discussion of a skin because threads logically appear to be commentary as much or more upon the review they are attached to than to the skin. I did feel that this as a problem at times on the old skin site.
Your first alternative (to allow only registered users to write a review) does have some merit as well. It would not prevent this type of review but it would serve to discourage attempts to use reviews to flame a designer or a product, or to try to rig the overall "vote" for a skin by submitting multiple reviews for the same skin.
As the site master I would agree that your time would be better spent attending to bigger issues than this but that again really is your decision. If you do decide to "certify" potentially reviewers, you may also find this to be a more disagreeable task than expected (although I would be surprised if a large number of people applied to become reviewers).
Anyway, those are my thoughts. I'm certainly open to what others might think.
BTW I have still tinkering with some suggestions for the ratings scales.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

**Spoons** · March 07, 2004, 06:01 PM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

well basically to seperate a comment from a review.

in other words the comment in the above case is clearly a comment and not a review. thats why there is a "start a discussion" button so even if you don't like the review or indeed do like the review then it will be linked here in the forum from that review.

thats what the forum is for. so we can bable all we like. however a review is more designed towards what the skin has and hasn't and can do and can't do and some opinions overall.

the distiction is clear for me.

it is not to prevent anyone from making a review at all. if i close it down so only approved reviewers can review but have the submission to be a reviewer open to everone then it is all open to anyone who wants to post a review.

it just stops willy nilly posts that i don't think belong in the reviews for a skin. the willy nilly commments can be posted here and are more than welcomed here in the forum.

it may result in less reviews to start with but the encouragment to create a review will then be there if people want to see a particular skin be higher ranks.

otherwise we will see skins go in the best reviewed section with nothing but one or two worded reviews.

**Spoons** · March 07, 2004, 06:10 PM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

and here is the current default instructions:

When entering comments, you must enter something that goes deeper than saying it is "great" or it is "bad". Reviews submitted without valuable comments will be removed. Some guidelines:

* BE CRITICAL! Nothing is perfect. Superficial, glowing reviews will not get published.
* Resist the new product rush! Take some time and really work with the product. If you need to comment right away, make it clear you haven't used it extensively.
* Each community member is only allowed one review per product listing. If you make a mistake, don't worry, you can always edit your review(s) at any time.
* You can also edit your reviews at a later date, to reflect a changing opinion due to product evolution, a good/bad experience, etc.
* For vendors - we value your input, but DO NOT pose as a neutral reviewer. Reviews posted with blatent sales pitches will be summarily removed. If you want to provide additional information on your products, such as video clips, color charts, or MSDS sheets, please contact us via e-mail for information on how to sign up as a product partner.

**donny** · March 08, 2004, 03:57 AM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

Hmm it is an interesting question...
I have noticed these reviews yesterday....

I think we need more reviews, so I wouldn't go and allow just "qualified" reviewers to add their input...
The more the reviews the better can someone see the quality of the product... Average opinions etc... If people are really interested in quality then they can, for example, go to the hall of fame (I guess later it will have more ocupants) and select some of the reviewers, check out who likes the same as they do...
For instance xoas is a fair reviewer

So my votes is to go for not alowing anonymus reviews... this way if someone makes a mistake we can ask him/her to fix it... or just explain for future use...

Also we probably should allow just short comments, but I think that sometimes we could allow a 3-4 sentence long review, especially if there is a "serious" review already ...

**xoas** · March 08, 2004, 04:27 AM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

"well basically to seperate a comment from a review."

I understand your intention better now.
I would like to ask about whether the ratings should be based upon ratings by anyone who wants to add a rating or only upon ratings by those who have contributed complete reviews. I ask because many of us have some familiarity with sites that feature user ratings systems which also provide users the opportunity to provide commentary as well. My experience is that way more users contribute ratings than contribute comments and that by scanning the commentary you can fairly easily distinguish useful informed commentary from that based upon frustration or adulation.

I do like the idea of having reviews which try to address your standards. But I am also attracted to the idea of having a site as open to discussion on many levels of sophistication as possible (as is the case with the Forums) on each skin. I have not yet seen how the Start a Discussion section works in the current system. If time allows, maybe I will give this go. Depending on how ell this works, it may address Donny's recommendation about allowing short comments.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

**xoas** · March 08, 2004, 04:40 AM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

"I have not yet seen how the Start a Discussion section works in the current system"

Well, been there, done that.
I must say I would really prefer to see the skin discussion be located at the Skin site.
If that cannot be easily accomplished then maybe would could follow Donny's suggestion "I think that sometimes we could allow a 3-4 sentence long review, especially if there is a "serious" review already ..."
best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

**Spoons** · March 08, 2004, 11:15 AM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

I think that sometimes we could allow a 3-4 sentence long review

yes i can set a min charactor limit. 100?

**Spoons** · March 08, 2004, 11:05 PM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

i set the limit to one hundred charactors min.

I must say I would really prefer to see the skin discussion be located at the Skin site. If that cannot be easily accomplished then maybe would could follow Donny's suggestion "I think that sometimes we could allow a 3-4 sentence long review, especially if there is a "serious" review already ..."

actaully it's more part of the reason for choosing this review system. to avoid a forum style discussion on the review site, and to encourage forum discussion in the forums here.

it is to remove any blurred lines between what a review is and what a discussion/comments are. this is to promote and encourage writting skills and for these skills to be displayed in a place where you are pitted against other reviewers as well. also it allows for the actual skinner to review or tell his/her own story on the skin they have created.

so i really want to keep reviews and forum discussions in seperate places but still linked to each other.

it might take a bit of getting used to but i think you will see the benifits in time to come.

also i would rather see no reviews than 10 short comments on a skin.

**donny** · March 09, 2004, 09:53 AM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

I agree with "no review better than 10 short coments" view, but it is still good on the rating part... I think we need more ratings... it will give a better insight to what people really like

**Spoons** · March 09, 2004, 11:57 AM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

ok, that sounds like voting. like having a poll for each skin for people to vote on. i think that is different to a review.

i do know what you mean though.

**Spoons** · March 09, 2004, 03:29 PM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

i will have a look at a script that i think i can put inside the template that shows the skin. if i can do it then you will see a simple vote option to submit without having to submit a view. so basically you should be able to vote or write a review or both.

thats the theory anyway.

**donny** · March 10, 2004, 12:45 PM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

that would be cool I think... that way people who wish to show their excitement about a skin (and don't want to write a whole review) can just vote....

we'll have serious reviews AND the public opinion :D

**xoas** · March 10, 2004, 12:52 PM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

I like it too.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

**Spoons** · March 10, 2004, 12:56 PM

Re: skin review issue needs attention

ok if thats the general concenses then thats ok by me also.

it just might have to wait a bit as that involves coding/hacking. so i think it will go towards the bottom of the list just for now.

skin review issue needs attention

skin review issue needs attention

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment