skin care revival package

[Craze]

Re: skin care revival package

Well, let's see. This is the third Skin site so far and the second attempt for improvements. There are a lot of good things going on here. I don't want to discourage what you're doing. But don't discard some of the neat features of the previous site.
I would have to agree with BestRip. It is a bit confusing trying to find ALL of the skins. If I hadn't been a regular, I'd probably left the site for something else.

We may be surprised how many people can't get there and do just that. Leave.

I like the idea of showing all skins from the opening page, with the option of a larger view. But that may be the bandwidth problem all over again.
I also liked how the downloads were being tracked on the old site. It gave skinners a gauge for measuring how well their designs were conceived, executed, and ultimately accepted. It also gave visitors a gauge to what's hot, what's not, at a glance. I think it generated a lot of excitement and interest in the overall product.

You're headed in the right direction. Keep it simple. The whole idea is for those looking for skins to be able to find them.

[Spoons]

Re: skin care revival package

i fail to see why its so hard to find a skin?

lets see now. i click on the "skins" folder. and i see this page skins and now i can either view at a glance some skins on the left side or "sort by date" to see when the last one was entered or whatever. or sought by "item name" or "skin designer" or i can click on a skinners name and then list all skins by that skin designer. no where exactly is this all too hard to find a skin?

i guess we could have intalled an art gallery instead but i think it was a case of the huge amounts of bandwidth images suck up.

in the current skin site i understand it's not as "visual".

the thing is it may just be a matter of a new learning curve instead of what everyone else is doing. the statistics are next to useless as they are manipulated by anyone who wants to. sure they are a crowd pleaser to see stats but in the end it is a shallow method of saying hey this skin is popular. maybe it's so bad everyone comes to view it and that bumps the stats up?

the only and reliable method to a more substantial degree of knowing more about a skin is for it to be reviewed by whoever or the skin owner. and allow for discussions on the skin. these two aspects are in place but no one is using it. this tells me at the mpoment most people downloading skins are only interested find and download and want nothing else to do with the site/skin/skin designer/ or anything else. and that is perfectly ok too you know.

do we want a shallow find and download skin site? with no feedback on your skins? just a nice little stat number beside your skin tyo show off?

OR

do we want a professional take on what skinning an audio player is all about? and have our skins represented in an environment that welcomes and encourages user feedback and promotes the idea of stretching the mind and learn how to write a review on an audio skin.

i guess no one understood what i meant by creating a skinning community rather than a skin site that is a picture gallery to look at?

the way it is now one has to flex his brain muscles. if the old grey matter is lacking then perhaps those people can come here for help on lookijng for a skin.

[BestRip]

Re: skin care revival package

Hi ya all (and Razgo in particular )

Now I see more what you were aiming for with the changes and that’s OK with me… Unfortunately I think it may act as a discouragement for many new potential users, the ones we should be the most caring about!? If you’d take the viewpoint of someone with a lot of scepticism who just found another player programme, thinking: will this one crash my machine, what is available here… is it for free!!!? One of the things we may forget that is so great about dAP! Most of the great program parts are totally free AND free of spy ware sh.. (that others resort to, to finance their work).
Take the viewpoint of someone that doesn’t know yet he’s struck gold… to this person we need to show that dAP is better than WA and all the others… but we don’t get too many minutes (or even seconds) to do that! As WE all know after that it doesn’t matter much what the site looks like (i.e.: where Razgo has hidden this or that…:D) WE’LL find it!!!
(On that note, maybe it would be a good idea to collect all the stuff that is so great in dBpowerAmp to one big “goodies page”?)

Well… to answer the question on how I would like the site to look… This is pretty close:

http://skins.dbpoweramp.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1

or:

http://skins.dbpoweramp.net/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=MostPopular

(Just one notch from correct :D No… those reasons aside… it is this form of display that is interesting.)
I could just take the above as an example and say what I’d like to change in this one… would be the easiest form of saying what I really would like.

1. That the skins be displayed on the very first page. (as in the links above)
2. Big buttons to Sort Downloads by: Title (A\D) Date (A\D) Rating (A\D) Popularity (A\D) (and that the by date actually displays skins, not a page to choose a date from!!! if there were at least a few skins per day added this could work Edit.. sorry had this one confused with some other page in the skinsite)
3. The link in the header of a skin should point to the “Details” page, not start a download, download should say “download” ehhh? (this is a reason for the stats being a bit odd… not the full answer but a part :D)
4. The cookie on user login that works with the forum site should work here to. And could give the username as in the forum site… Many would have the nicer yellowish background… and it would feel more like a part of the same site as the forum pages? (yes I know my cookie is gone…)
5. Headers on the sides (alike: Big story of today) that didn’t get used should be removed.
6. Surveys could be used more frequently as they were actually used (answered) by our community.
7. Download stats for last week could be fun as a complement to total downloads.
8. Cosmetics like buttons and such could be ordered from me, I just love to make that type of stuff…
9. An even easier voting right on the first page next to the skin... will eventually weed out the "odd" votes... ?

So there might be a lot of other stuff that could be done, and I know that I’ve taken mostly the skinners point of view on this, not so much our great reviewers!!! Perhaps they have their own opinions on what they would like?

Now Razgo, be a good boy and earn yourself a :komisch9: (just kidding... I just love these smilies :smile2: )

[BestRip]

Re: skin care revival package

To Craze,

I just totally agree!!!

[Spoons]

Re: skin care revival package

Unfortunately I think it may act as a discouragement for many new potential users, the ones we should be the most caring about!?

why would it discourage? the chances are a new user will be happy with just the default skin.

If you’d take the viewpoint of someone with a lot of scepticism who just found another player programme, thinking: will this one crash my machine, what is available here… is it for free!!!? One of the things we may forget that is so great about dAP! Most of the great program parts are totally free AND free of spy ware sh.. (that others resort to, to finance their work).
Take the viewpoint of someone that doesn’t know yet he’s struck gold… to this person we need to show that dAP is better than WA and all the others… but we don’t get too many minutes (or even seconds) to do that! As WE all know after that it doesn’t matter much what the site looks like (i.e.: where Razgo has hidden this or that…:D) WE’LL find it!!!

this has absolutely nothing to do with the skin site. dap the music player and it's official advertising is controled by Spoon. the skin site is currently an addon which really has no bearing on the actual dap player for the new user. using skins is for the advanced user.

(On that note, maybe it would be a good idea to collect all the stuff that is so great in dBpowerAmp to one big “goodies page”?)

this is Spoon's department and a seperate issue if you feel dap the music player needds more promotion. and i am all for addressing any promotions for dap.


1. i will look into what template editing might be involved to do it.

2. first part i am not sure. your second part about more skins is not in my hands. a few skins per day? lol we are lucky to see a few skins per year .

3. what? to download you have to click the "download <name of skin> now"
i don't know what your seeing it clearly says download.

4. ???? the skin site uses your vbulletin forum cookie from here.

5. your refering to the old skin site??

6. where are you putting the survey?

7. download stats would require a seperate program but possible to do.

8. request for skinners are made here at the forums. can be advertised more.

9. voting is achieved when you make a review. if you want a poll where anyone can repeat their votes over and over you can acheive that here in the forums my creating a poll.

So there might be a lot of other stuff that could be done, and I know that I’ve taken mostly the skinners point of view on this, not so much our great reviewers!!! Perhaps they have their own opinions on what they would like?

yes there is lots that could be tweaked and improved upon. but considering the skin site does not attract a lot of interest yet i think it is fine as it is. i will tweak it fine tune it but as far as trying to do an overhaul to make it look like comic picture site that is not my bag.

i still need to give correct instructions on how to submit a skin and how you gain a skin account to add your own skins. so i think that will be my next task is to expalin it clearly and then point everyone to the post on how to submit a skin.


but if the general concenses is no one likes the direction the skin site is going in and you all would rather something totally different? i doubt i can accomadate that.

[Spoons]

Re: skin care revival package

here is a classical example of the type of new user the new skin site will work for. duel pro review

why? well he figured out he had to register here the forum. then went and posted a review. no worries, no drama, no hassles. and by now he may also know it is not a 100% finished skin site. but hey he found it liked it posted on it and maybe we will see him on the forums here sometime as well.

[BestRip]

Re: skin care revival package

Hi Razgo,

My whole recount on what I would like was based on what you could call "changes on the old skin site", sorry if that was not clear... english is not my first language...

why would it discourage? the chances are a new user will be happy with just the default skin.

...this sounds a bit like "why have a skin site at all"??? ...I do realize the skins/skinning is just a small part in why many dAP users love dBpowerAMP... Spoons work is by far the reason no.1, but for some of us (and evidently by download stats from the "old site" to quite a few others too... not all those stats are "tampered with" far from it I think...) it's a load of fun...

... a seperate issue if you feel dap the music player needds more promotion. and i am all for addressing any promotions for dap.

YES!!! I think it is a great player (dMC probably being the more popular part of dBpowerAmp) and deserves lots of more credit! ...however the only way I see I can contribute in any way to promoting dAP, is by making skins for dAP... and in some respect I think that the number of skins available for a player will reflect the popularity/# of users, of the player in general... to a potential new user it could even be a determining factor (I think you'd be surprised if you knew all the different reasons for these choices:D)

Now I don't really understand what made you so radically change your mind about the "old skin site" in the first place, since that one too is a "Razgo product", and a great one at that!!! :D

[BestRip]

Re: skin care revival package

here is a classical example of the type of new user the new skin site will work for. duel pro review

I'm afraid I'd class it as a rare example... once in a blue moon? not quite but cloose... AND GREAT!!!
Edit: Well sorry that could have been related to the "old site"... but to be a bitch about this again... what happens if the reviews don't come that often and it is a new skinners first attempt that someone writes a real put down review comment about... and it gets stuck there for several weeks??? It could really sogg up the site as such... (again sorry 'bout the language usage )

[xoas]

Re: skin care revival package

"I know that I’ve taken mostly the skinners point of view on this, not so much our great reviewers!!! Perhaps they have their own opinions on what they would like?"

As one who has written some reviews, I think that the new site is a VAST improvement over the old site. But with the original site its handling of reviews was one of its greatest weaknesses. I do think that Razgo has been clear and throughout these revisions as to his intents and purposes. I do appreciate his focus on what he considers to be "the skinning community."

I do see the point in trying to make skins more visibly accessable for site users who are merely trying to find a skin they would like to try. The old site did accomplish that feat a bit better than the current site but I don't think that it handled it all that well. My experience was that the images downloaded too slowly and you still had to go through 6 pages to see all of the skins.

I wonder if it would be possible to have a kind of revolving display of skins on the front page where you could visually scan say 5 to 7 skins at a time and move on to the next group at your own pace. This might provide a reasonable solution for the conflict between trying to present as many visuals of skins as possible and bandwidth limitations.


"what happens if the reviews don't come that often and it is a new skinners first attempt that someone writes a real put down review comment about... and it gets stuck there for several weeks???"

No, reviews do not come that often. I am not sure that a negative review has a lot of influence on potential users although I am sure that it might have a considerable psychological impact on the skin designer. I do not believe I have seen a significant problem with "real put-down" reviews (although if there have been I am would be happy to look at some). You might also be surprised to hear that reviewers can also experience anxiety regarding our reviews including whether anyone is reading them and whether or not people appreciate their work.

What strikes me most in reviewing these recent posts is that the new skins site is much more independent of the Forums than the old skins site was (and of course the original skins site was PART of the forums) and that I need to adjust my behavior to help assure I can keep up with what is going on in the skins world.

So that's my 2 cents worth.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Spoons]

Re: skin care revival package

I think that the number of skins available for a player will reflect the popularity/# of users, of the player in general... to a potential new user it could even be a determining factor (I think you'd be surprised if you knew all the different reasons for these choices

the number of skins availible will never determine or become a determining factor of how popular dap music player is. it never has and never will.

we really do needd to get back to reality here.

you might just be surprised yourself that i do know many reasons why people choose a music player. one one of them is not skins.

don't forget the majority of users are more likely to use a music player to play music and not play with how the player looks. the second factor is how fast and easy the player works/functions. the third factor then comes on how the music player manages the music.

sure, i do understand some people will look at the initial looks first, and that can determine an initial response. however it's not something that would turn people away in droves or bring them in droves based on looks.

look at winamp 5 default skin. i think it is great!! but does that make me want to use winamp? uh, no

[Spoons]

Re: skin care revival package

Now I don't really understand what made you so radically change your mind about the "old skin site" in the first place, since that one too is a "Razgo product", and a great one at that!!!

it was a bit of a nightmare from an administration point of view. this one is much more admin friendly, and focused on "reviews" which is what this is about. the old site was a content management system.

I wonder if it would be possible to have a kind of revolving display of skins on the front page where you could visually scan say 5 to 7 skins at a time and move on to the next group at your own pace

the best i could do there is make random skins appear.

What strikes me most in reviewing these recent posts is that the new skins site is much more independent of the Forums than the old skins site was

it is independent as in the reviews do reside on a seperate databse system. however all reviewers are linked to the forum registrations here and also the forums herre are linked via the review site when you click "start a discussion" button. that will open up a new thread here. that is intergrated with this forum. so not sure what you mean.

what happens if the reviews don't come that often and it is a new skinners first attempt that someone writes a real put down review comment about... and it gets stuck there for several weeks???

has it happened? no. your worring about if , but's , maybe's, might happen?? we would deal with those issues if they cropped up.

they whole point of the independent review system but still tied to the forums here was to enable the skinner and reviewer to have an area where they have an account and are able to be responible for their own area.

what do i mean? wel the skinner can gain an account on the skin site and put all sorts of info in there for the public to view. and it's an easy way for skinnersw to be responsible for their own skin submissions, and feel good about it.

the reviewer will hold the limelite if he/she wishes to. they can learn writting skills and gain a following of people who ejoy their writting style.

and it all happens on the "NEW" skin site. but it seems to be overlooked by everyone? if you think a skin should appear on the front page then write a review for it!!

[xoas]

Re: skin care revival package

Razgo-
My comment about the "independence" of the skin site simply is a reflection of the fact that new reviews can be put on the skin site but that they are not mentionned in the Forums. I meant this as an observation and not as a fault.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Spoons]

Re: skin care revival package

you mean there is no advertising on it?

[xoas]

Re: skin care revival package

you mean there is no advertising on it

I meant that new reviews can get posted on the skin site without there being mention on the forums. If that is what you mean by "advertising" then yes.
Again, I am not trying to say that reviews necessarily should be advertised on the forum in this way. I note that new skins (much more important news, really) get "advertised" on the Forums only through the efforts of the designers or of Razgo. So I think a reviewer who really wants advertisement could post themselves.
My original posting was really more of a public "note to myself" reminding me that I need to spend more time visiting the Skins site to keep up with what is going on there. I feel I had become rather complacent in relying on the Forums alone.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Spoons]

Re: skin care revival package

i will at some stage see how a random skin or latest review or both looks by in the footer of this forum. i think i did that once before with the other skins site.