skin reviews

[Spoons]

is it better to keep the skin reviews on the skin site? or create a forum here for skin reviews? would it be easier here?

ahh, so many questions :(

[JVILLAS]

skin reviews

is it better to keep the skin reviews on the skin site? or create a forum here for skin reviews? would it be easier here?

ahh, so many questions :(

Hi Razgol, my opinion is to keep the skin reviews on the skin site. I also feel a forum may be needed for additional info,questions,and problems if any. I think both may be needed. I enjoy reading the reviews,and going to the forum for additional info. This inevitably leads to reading other topics on the other forums,(dbpoweramp,converter, etc...)

[xoas]

I am rather unsure about why the separate skin site was created in the first place. My logical guess is that the occasional volume of downloads might detract from the rest of the forum and the other download sections at this site.
In any case, I think the more important issue regarding integration of skin downloads, skin reviews and skin discussions is how to better integrate these now separate components. It makes somewhat more sense to me to move the skins discussion forum to the Skins site and then develop better means of integrating discussions, comments, reviews and downloads within the skins site itself. The other thing you would want to do is to create some simple and obvious links from this site to the Skins site.
Those would be my suggestions.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[JVILLAS]

skin reviews

I am rather unsure about why the separate skin site was created in the first place. My logical guess is that the occasional volume of downloads might detract from the rest of the forum and the other download sections at this site.
In any case, I think the more important issue regarding integration of skin downloads, skin reviews and skin discussions is how to better integrate these now separate components. It makes somewhat more sense to me to move the skins discussion forum to the Skins site and then develop better means of integrating discussions, comments, reviews and downloads within the skins site itself. The other thing you would want to do is to create some simple and obvious links from this site to the Skins site.
Those would be my suggestions.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

Your ideas and suggestions make a whole lot of sense to me. A full service skin site would be very cool.

[Spoons]

these are all good points.

skin downloads, skin reviews and skin discussions is how to better integrate these now separate components.

you have no idea how much this has been on my mind. i have spent hundred's of hours over time searching and testing solutions.

the biggest problems with "content management systems" is making sure they intergrate with vbulletin forums.

phpnuke currently only supports phpbb2 forum software.
there are some that actually do intergrate but are a bit cumbersome to use.

there are some good products out there but they have some issues also.

incursio review software is second to none and does intergrate the user database of vbulletin. the biggest drawback is it's liscence agreement. you are forced to upgrade every year or you must delete the software off the server. and once you register it to a domain URL, you can never move it to another URL location.

http://www.incursio.com/

anther one i tested was free and very good: http://www.4homepages.de/

i can't remember what was wrong with that one.

the only 2 that would have no problems with this vbulletin software is photopost and review post: http://www.photopost.com/

[Spoons]

I forgot to mention one of the biggest draw backs of having an all out skin site with gallery and the lot.

it's called "bandwidth". images suck huge amounts of bandwidth. and that costs.

i think last time i spoke to Spoon he said the server was dishing out approx 500GIG per month.

we could always chip in and by spoon another server to run a full skin site :D

[Spoons]

i stand corrected on the incursio review system liscence. he is making it so you can still use it after the 12 mth expire, but have no access to upgrades until you renew. that's fair enough.

however the biggest issue still remains that whatever domain you register it too you are stuck with it forever. so basically i have a paid product that is dead in the water becasue i cannot offer it up here on spoons site because it is a different doamain.

don't worry about me, i have been harping on to the owner about this since last year :sad:

[JVILLAS]

skin reviews

I forgot to mention one of the biggest draw backs of having an all out skin site with gallery and the lot.

it's called "bandwidth". images suck huge amounts of bandwidth. and that costs.

i think last time i spoke to Spoon he said the server was dishing out approx 500GIG per month.

we could always chip in and by spoon another server to run a full skin site :D

Hi Razgo I am completely ignorant of the technical and financial considerations that you are grappling with on this issue but I feel certain a remedy can be attained. What can I say optimism abounds. Have you checked out how Quintessential(qcd) handles there skins? QCD uses a skin browser that is integrated with the player. The last time I tried there player and opened the skin browser the total number of skins was about 120 and were listed in alphabetical order. There were no reviews to speak of just a listing of features and a comment by the creator. I found it fast convenient and easy to use. My guess is that this approach to skin handling is good for its size but would not work for a player of winamp demensions. I have no idea how many reg. nonreg users qcd has but it would be interesting to know. I chose to mention this player because of the way it handles skins.I found it to be rather unique among players that I have examined. Also qcd has just released a new build and the developer has made a nunber of changes that have to do with skins,sorry I dont know what this means,but the skin creators there seem quite happy about the changes. Finally I hope what I have written is at least alittle helpfull, and not a waiste of your time. Thankx for all your past replys and consideration.

[xoas]

...so basically i have a paid product that is dead in the water because i cannot offer it up here on spoons site because it is a different domain...

Are you talking about the new skins site (where the reviews are now along with the downloads)?
I would keep in mind that the site is still relatively new. I take it from your comments that you have had some rough going trying to integrate a forum or coments feature at the new site for technical (and financial and perhaps other) reasons. What if you looked at trying to reorganize this content (whether solely here, solely at the new skins site, or using the resources of both where possible) so that there is easier access of the component parts. One strategy you are already using is your links from the new skins site to the discussions in the forum.
I am sorry if this all seems discouraging today. I value the work and effort you put into this site and the new skins site as well.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Spoons]

no i was talking about a seperate review system software.

the skin site is currently phpnuke cms system. no problem there.
I'm not discouraged, just always trying to figure out how to get things working together.

i guess it dpends on the definition of "intergration".

having a link from the skin site to this forum is not intergration. having a forum that uses the same user database as phpnuke is intergration.

here is an example of an intergration: http://www.vbportal.com/forums/index.php?s=&menu=2

what i keep thinking about is how to intergrate a review system with a gallery system and works with the forum.

and here is a working example of a good review system: http://library.thebookforum.com/index.php

[Spoons]

there is another script that would almost qualify as simple, practicle, and fuctional for downloading skins.

it is in german : http://www.alexscriptengine.de/pic_e...e31bfb26b48d3c

the problem i had with that script was a language cookie issue. it uses the variable $lang which means you have to keep clearing your cookies and temp files locally to to the script working properly. however i can edit all instances of $lang through out the script so it will work properly, i just haven't got around to it yet. but it is worth looking at.

it has a rating system and using a forum style with allowable bb code to respond to downloads.

now don't get me wrong here. i think the current skin site is ok. it's far from perfect but it does the job. the idea was to create a dbpoweramp skinning community. the problem is i think there is not nearly enough talk on how to achieve this over a long term period.

so the idea of moving the skins was to try and create that type of environement. as it is expected over time there will be thousands of skins and hundreds of skinners. but that's looking down the track.

[xoas]

OK. Thanks for the explanation.
"...the idea was to create a dbpoweramp skinning community. the problem is i think there is not nearly enough talk on how to achieve this over a long term period..."
Are you mostly concerned about technical aspects of achieving this type of community or are you concerned about the whole big picture of achieving this type of active community? Being non-technical myself, I have to rely on the judgement of others for those types of details.
As for the "whole big picture" issue, I do think that the process of outlining goals (such as "Who are the members of this community that you are trying to create (designers?, reviewers?, users?, the general dB community?)?", "What kinds of discussions do you want to promote (or avoid)?", and "How can the needs of these different sections (if any) of this community be used to achieve a community that is greater than the sum of its parts?" I think that this type of thinking through of issues can be as helpful as the technical stuff (but then those are the types of details I can understand and those are the types of issues that I feel I might be able to help talk about).
But by now we are really onto a whole different thread.
best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Spoons]

Are you mostly concerned about technical aspects of achieving this type of community or are you concerned about the whole big picture of achieving this type of active community?

both :happy:

As for the "whole big picture" issue, I do think that the process of outlining goals (such as "Who are the members of this community that you are trying to create (designers?, reviewers?, users?, the general dB community?)?", "What kinds of discussions do you want to promote (or avoid)?", and "How can the needs of these different sections (if any) of this community be used to achieve a community that is greater than the sum of its parts?"

that's about it in a nutshell.

i guess some of my motivations come from being inspired by Spoon and his constant consistancy in developement and support. just look at his post count! :komisch7: so over the years i have been giving support in ways that i can. backing up databases installing forum software etc etc... however there is always a need for help in answering support questions as well. and people like youself and others are doing this. but it would be nice to see the day where the only questions left unanswered are those that only Spoon can answer.

for the most part this is a job/task that moderators usually do and they do it daily. and it's not an easy task because quite often you have to test out hings that you haven't even looked at before. have a look at the FAQ where i figured out to rip to multiple formats using the powerpack as an example to answering an often asked question.

what i mean is i had no idea if it could be done when the question was asked. so i spent hours testing and figuring it out to see if it could be done.

in my eyes it is the moderators that are the "glue" of the community. if they dissapear or fail to keep up then that "glue" starts to leave a void in the community. i know that sounds harsh but it is a reality. imagine if Spoon just upped and left for no apparent reason for a month? we would be left here like fish out of water flailing about.

so i do think creating a good "glue" is an essential part of Spoons software/developement.

the technical aspect is also part of the community as well. but in a way it needs to be practical, functional, and easy for the community to follow.

i know the new skin site has been hard for some to work out, but eventually you get used to it. if not, then it needs further consideration on how to improve evolve it.

i think the easiest thing to do for the skin site right now is for me to add a link in the reviews to the forum for each review for further discussion.

testing out the incuriso review software a bit further yesterday, it looks like it could be a more proffessional way of doing reviews. i have to wait for the deveoper to upgrade the compatability to vb3 first before i do further testing. but it is something worth investigating. and as per usual if I get a test site up and running , Spoon will be the first to road test it to see if it's a good idea.

hmmmm..... i lost my train of thought, must be coffee time :D

[Spoons]

i wanted to give a furhter explanation why the skin site ended up using phpnuke also.

cms systems is something i have been involved in for many years. and i found them very usefull to use on dynamic web sites that have ever constantly changing content.

unfortunatley these cms system also have their support and developement problems. many communities split and forked the software and created new cms systems over time. but unfortunatley the support never really improved. it wasn't until i came across the Xoops cms system which was a fork/split of postnuke. i used xoops for a long time and was convinced it was a really good product to use.

Unfortunatly when Spoon agreed to test it out the Xoops developers decided to to restructure the entire core of the system and take it in a different direction. this led the chaos and lack of support and another fork/split was made.

so i was left with a pie in my face after everything good i said about this system :cry:

so ok, i decided to go to where it all started with the original cms system called phpnuke. and you wouldn't believe it, the day i installed it the phpnuke community and support fell over and split over night! there was an in house issue brewing that i didn't know about. so how is that for a double whammy!! the support forum even got deleted!!

so here i was with 2 pies in the face and trying to convince Spoon (who has good faith in me) that this was a good idea!

so i thought stuff it, i will just install and do a skin site based on the phpnuke cms system, and leave it at that, and see if it will work out.

the thing to remember when using web site software like this it is very important to have good technical support when things go wrong or need fixing. and when that support goes it becomes very hard to fix things without php and SQL knowledge.

so anyhow if the skin site doesn't quite live up to expectations it's because it is still developing :D

[Spoons]

did somebody fart? everyone left :(