Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

[PepsiCan]

Hi

I have about a dozen CDs with hidden tracks on them. I'm not talking about songs that get tagged on the back of an offcial and sits within the same track. What I mean is so-called "track 0" songs. When I run PerfectTunes to verify they are accurate, I always end up with an error stating "Cannot Check: Incomplete Album".

However, this error persists whether the hidden track has been ripped to file or not. For example, "Queens Of The Stone Age - Songs for the Deaf" has 15 official tracks and 1 track zero. When I scan the album including the track zero with PerfectTunes, I get the error message. When I rip the album without the track zero and scan it, I get the same error. Differing settings (Album matching Grouped by Folder) have no impact. Also, the log file never reports the hidden track. They all look the same. What am I missing?

Queens Of The Stone Age - Songs For The Deaf   [AccurateRip DiscIDs: 015-0022e6db-01882b50-e10e8b0f]        Cannot Check: Incomplete Album
  Track 1: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\01-You Think I Ain't Worth A Dollar, But I Feel Like A Millionaire, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 2: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\02-No One Knows, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 3: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\03-First It Giveth, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 4: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\04-A Song For The Dead, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 5: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\05-The Sky Is Fallin', Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 6: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\06-Six Shooter, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 7: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\07-Hangin' Tree, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 8: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\08-Go With The Flow, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 9: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\09-Gonna Leave You, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 10: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\10-Do It Again, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 11: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\11-God Is In The Radio, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 12: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\12-Another Love Song, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 13: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\13-A Song For The Deaf, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 14: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\14-Mosquito Song, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac
  Track 15: D:\Public\Music Rips\Queens Of The Stone Age\Songs For The Deaf\15-Everybody's Gonna Be Happy, Queens Of The Stone Age-1.flac

[Spoon]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

The Tags have a track count of 16?

[PepsiCan]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

The Tags have a track count of 16?

There are either 16 tracks in the folder, numbered 0-15, or 15 tracks numbered 1-15. Either way, the error occurs and the log for both cases are identical.

[Spoon]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

It is the total track count in the tags which is important here.

[PepsiCan]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

It is the total track count in the tags which is important here.

Total track count is 16. (metadata on track 15 shows "15/16" for Tag "Track").

I guess it expects 15 as the total? Should I rip that CD in two stages?

[PepsiCan]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

It is the total track count in the tags which is important here.

Based on that tip, I changed the Total Track number in the metadata of the FLAC files from 16 to 15. PerfectTunes now does indeed verify the album against AccurateRip and verifies 15 tracks as accurate (Track 0 was skipped, which I can see as it is not an official part of the album. Also, track 0 cannot always be ripped succesfully to begin with so I guess there are not many submissions anyway).

But this begs a question whether DBPowerAmp creates the correct metadata tags. DBA can identify whether there is a hidden track. If there is one, it should not include these hidden tracks when it calculates the total number of tracks on the album. For now, the workaround is to manually edit the "Total Track" tag in all ripped CDs manually. Not too pleasant.

[Porcus]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

Old thread to necromance:

It is the total track count in the tags which is important here.

I spent an hour or so on that, as PerfectTunes reported an album to be incomplete. Turns out that I had tagged a multi-CD set using foo_discogs, and thereby gotten the grand total into the tag.
But those of us who ripped using dBpoweramp, have ACCURATERIPDISCID tags, which should identify each track uniquely anyway. Then there is hardly any need to even read the total, although I'd have appreciated if PerfectTunes were kind enough to tell me that the field was objectionable.

Also, CUETools' ACCURATERIPID tag with track number tags should be sufficient (or even - at least in the absence of HTOA - track lengths, but that could be more work to implement).
Even, if PerfectTunes finds all audio tracks in a single folder to belong to the same album, then track numbers should be sufficient (or track lengths).

[Porcus]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

But here is an error. An album with 11 tracks, which PerfectTunes verifies as an accurate rip of an AccurateRip-id of an album with 18.

[mville]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

Just come across this issue with the Blur - Think Tank CD. CDRipper rips all tracks numbering from 0-13 and writes total track as 14.

All tracks rip as follows:



Why isn't AccurateRip and/or CDRipper/PerfectTUNES catering for the hidden track 0?

[Oggy]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

Just come across this issue with the Blur - Think Tank CD. CDRipper rips all tracks numbering from 0-13 and writes total track as 14.

All tracks rip as follows:



Why isn't AccurateRip and/or CDRipper/PerfectTUNES catering for the hidden track 0?

Hi mville,

By coincidence, I ripped the Blur, Think Tank CD, (see "Best drive for reading scratched discs - TEST RESULTS / ON-GOING" in CD Ripper) last month, along with the David Gray album, White Ladder, which also contains a hidden first track.

From memory, when you insert either of these CDs, the track 0 data reads "Hidden First Track (ability to rip depends on CD drive", or certainly something along those lines. This was consistent for all of the metadata providers. By default track 0 was not ticked for ripping and the track information was a lighter colour. This gives the 13 tracks that ties in with the CD and sleeve information, and I guess is achievable by all.

Ticking track 0, changing the name (I used simply, Me, White Noise), then ripping the track, gives the "Complete" as you have shown - even though a Secure rip is achieved. The only information showing, is the CRC, with no AccurateRip or pressing offset, but as you say, ripping the complete disc still shows as 13 AccurateRip, but with the run time changed to include the "Complete" track 0.

Talking to colleagues, all managed to rip this track (once they had ticked it!), without any problem. Phil Daniels' freak out, could easily remain hidden to many, even though most drives seem to rip it without problems.

The hidden track in the pregap in White Ladder, track 0, (Through To Myself), also shows as Hidden First Track (ability to rip depends on CD drive), but seems to cause real problems for a large number of CD drives.

It would seem that AccurateRip and PerfectTUNES, are showing these CDs without the hidden tracks, listing as shown on the case, and what is achievable by all - which makes perfect sense.

For some, these tracks really are hidden, unless they've wound back to them on their CD player, or in some cases, bought the Remaster, where they are hidden no more. I certainly didn't know about the hidden David Gray track, until I ripped the CD - so this remained hidden to me, for nearly 20 years!

[mville]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

It would seem that AccurateRip and PerfectTUNES, are showing these CDs without the hidden tracks, listing as shown on the case, and what is achievable by all - which makes perfect sense.

Agreed, but I see no reason why AccurateRip cannot cater for CD rips with and without the hidden track.

[Oggy]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

Agreed, but I see no reason why AccurateRip cannot cater for CD rips with and without the hidden track.

Yes, that would be good. I'm really not sure what happens in the database if you submit the ripped results with the hidden track included, surely this is no different to submitting a disc with a different pressing / offset? I can see problems with tracks like the David Gray one, where the rip completes ok, but produces silence on playback, when ripped from some CD drives.

As a colleague wanted to rip this hidden track 0, I had to work my way through my drives to find the one that worked - I didn't compare the ripping data, just kept the file that produced sound.

[Thg6276]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

All here under cds in my library contains a HTOA
Like you, they are all mentionned as track 0 Complete

Ben Folds Five Whatever And Ever Amen
Bloc Party Silent Alarm
Blur Think Tank
Calexico Feast Of Wire
Indochine Alice & June
Jean-Louis Aubert Stockholm
Muse Hullabaloo
Original Soundtrack Twin Peaks - Season Two Music And More
Queens Of The Stone Age Songs For The Deaf
R.E.M. Murmur
R.E.M. Reckoning
Rammstein Reise, Reise
The Music The Music
Tryo Grain De Sable

[Oggy]

Re: Confused: hidden tracks & Accurate Rip

All here under cds in my library contains a HTOA
Like you, they are all mentionned as track 0 Complete

Ben Folds Five Whatever And Ever Amen
Bloc Party Silent Alarm
Blur Think Tank
Calexico Feast Of Wire
Indochine Alice & June
Jean-Louis Aubert Stockholm
Muse Hullabaloo
Original Soundtrack Twin Peaks - Season Two Music And More
Queens Of The Stone Age Songs For The Deaf
R.E.M. Murmur
R.E.M. Reckoning
Rammstein Reise, Reise
The Music The Music
Tryo Grain De Sable

I will have to check my copies on a few of those, I don't recall hidden tracks. Maybe I've got later pressings, or simply didn't check the box.

Out of interest, did all of those rip ok, or did you need a specific drive?