RE: Ripping Level Question (help?)

[garym]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Cheers Gary, And to play Devils advocate, why might someone want to do that, please?! Thanks.

Because that's the entire point of using SORT tags. No other reason to use SORT tags. Why would I want two different tag fields containing the exact same info?

[garym]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Thanks a lot mville,

I really appreciate that.

Because I don't want the same album to appear twice, then I will leave the ARTIST tag as it is, thanks. But, can I leave the ARTIST SORT tag as it is, please?, ie. with the semicolon?

I will post some more questions tomorrow if that's OK, as I plan to make some additional modifications to my current tagging system.

Cheers,

Paul

When you say you don't want the album to appear twice, that tells me that you are essentially ignoring the power of a database. A good database shows the user information when queried from different perspectives. So, for example, when I query my database for a Chick Corea album, I want that "Chick Corea and John McGlaughlin" album to show up. If I query the database for John McGlauglin albums, I also want it to show up. I don't want to have to remember that to find that album I need to query for the artist "Chick Corea and John McGlaughlin". It may be that I prefer this approach because I have over 7,000 albums, so it is beyond just info that I can always "recall" in my head.

This said, tagging is an extremely personal thing. How one uses and interfaces with their library can vary quite a bit.

[mville]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Because I don't want the same album to appear twice, then I will leave the ARTIST tag as it is, thanks. But, can I leave the ARTIST SORT tag as it is, please?, ie. with the semicolon?

No, as you need to keep your tags consistent and not confuse player software. If you want 1 artist (as in Chick Corea, Bela Fleck) and you want a corresponding artist sort tag, then using the semi-colon will create 2 artist sort tags. This makes no sense as you probably only want 1 artist sort tag.

[mville]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

When you say you don't want the album to appear twice, that tells me that you are essentially ignoring the power of a database. A good database shows the user information when queried from different perspectives.

I agree.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

When you say you don't want the album to appear twice, that tells me that you are essentially ignoring the power of a database. A good database shows the user information when queried from different perspectives. So, for example, when I query my database for a Chick Corea album, I want that "Chick Corea and John McGlaughlin" album to show up. If I query the database for John McGlauglin albums, I also want it to show up. I don't want to have to remember that to find that album I need to query for the artist "Chick Corea and John McGlaughlin". It may be that I prefer this approach because I have over 7,000 albums, so it is beyond just info that I can always "recall" in my head.

Thanks a lot Gary,

OK, I will have another rethink over this. I see your points.

You have 7,000 CDs whereas I have (I think according to my count last month) between 500/600; so significantly less.

I dare say you have lots of CDs in which two established artists have collaborated (eg. Nash & Young). And you state that you do not object to the same CD appearing two (or maybe even more!) times in your foobar library. I originally thought you may have found it annoying to find the same recording in multiple places; but obviously not. My basic hypothesis was this: if you have 7,000 albums in your library, then if you tag the ARTISTS as (say):

Nash; Young; Nash & Young

then, after you add up all of the COLLABORATION albums you have tagged the same way, then the visual aspect of your library (in your playback s/w) might amount to (say) 7,500 recordings (whereas in reality you have 7,500!). But, as I say, you are happy with this way of working. The funny thing is, this fact caused me great concern and I only have around 20 albums which are 'collaborations'!

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

No, as you need to keep your tags consistent and not confuse player software. If you want 1 artist (as in Chick Corea, Bela Fleck) and you want a corresponding artist sort tag, then using the semi-colon will create 2 artist sort tags. This makes no sense as you probably only want 1 artist sort tag.

Hi mville,

Thanks for you replies. This is the first time I have took on a huge task such as this. I once transferred all my vinyls to tape (all 30 of them!) and then my CDs to WMP (which was a complete hash up!). But this time I would like to try and get it done once and for all. In fact, I am not going to rip anymore CDs until I have made a decision over these recent questions.

Let's say I wanted to tag in the way in which yourself and Gary are suggesting. So for ARTIST I use:

Chick Corea; Bela Fleck; Chick Corea, Bela Fleck.

This means I have THREE artists?; (the latter being a 'duo').

Then my question is, please, where the heck do you place, and how do you name, the FOLDER (which contains the ripped album)??!!

Do you have the ripped CD album ("The Enchantment") placed in the ALBUM ARTIST folder of:

Chick Corea, Bela Fleck, and Chick Corea, Bela Fleck.

That would mean (three) duplicates of the SAME album, hogging up GB space!, would it not?

But, if you placed the (ripped) album ONLY under, say, Chick Corea, then have you not broken your own logic? - no offence meant.

Much appreciated,

Paul

[garym]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Hi mville,

Thanks for you replies. This is the first time I have took on a huge task such as this. I once transferred all my vinyls to tape (all 30 of them!) and then my CDs to WMP (which was a complete hash up!). But this time I would like to try and get it done once and for all. In fact, I am not going to rip anymore CDs until I have made a decision over these recent questions.

Let's say I wanted to tag in the way in which yourself and Gary are suggesting. So for ARTIST I use:

Chick Corea; Bela Fleck; Chick Corea, Bela Fleck.

This means I have THREE artists?; (the latter being a 'duo').

Then my question is, please, where the heck do you place, and how do you name, the FOLDER (which contains the ripped album)??!!

Do you have the ripped CD album ("The Enchantment") placed in the ALBUM ARTIST folder of:

Chick Corea, Bela Fleck, and Chick Corea, Bela Fleck.

That would mean (three) duplicates of the SAME album, hogging up GB space!, would it not?

But, if you placed the (ripped) album ONLY under, say, Chick Corea, then have you not broken your own logic? - no offence meant.

Much appreciated,

Paul

I would place the album (only once) in a folder. In my own case, I typically use the ALBUM ARTIST as the folder location. So in your example, I'd have:

ALBUM ARTIST: Chick Corea, Bela Fleck (or I'd probably use: Chick Corea & Bela Fleck)
so that's the folder the album would be placed in. Then for ARTIST I'd have:

ARTIST: Chick Corea; Bela Fleck; Chick Corea & Bela Fleck
ARTISTSORT; Corea, Chick; Fleck, Bela; Chick Corea & Bela Fleck
(note I don't really need to change 3rd duo artist)
this results in 3 artists showing up in the tags, which is good for searching and indexing, etc. But the ALBUM is only on your harddrive ONCE, and it is located in the folder "Chick Corea & Bela Fleck"

p.s. I have dozens of Bela Fleck albums, love seeing him live!

[mville]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Let's say I wanted to tag in the way in which yourself and Gary are suggesting. So for ARTIST I use:

Chick Corea; Bela Fleck; Chick Corea, Bela Fleck.

This means I have THREE artists?; (the latter being a 'duo').

Then my question is, please, where the heck do you place, and how do you name, the FOLDER (which contains the ripped album)??!!

Do you have the ripped CD album ("The Enchantment") placed in the ALBUM ARTIST folder of:

Chick Corea, Bela Fleck, and Chick Corea, Bela Fleck.

That would mean (three) duplicates of the SAME album, hogging up GB space!, would it not?

But, if you placed the (ripped) album ONLY under, say, Chick Corea, then have you not broken your own logic? - no offence meant.

A very good question indeed.

A while ago I asked Illustrate to implement a function to extract a particular multi-value tag value e.g. the first value from Album Artist Sort. Then, this value, could be used as the folder name. This was not forthcoming, so I ended up using the Band tag.

See post no. 10 (last paragraph) from this thread for more explanation on what I do now: Album Artist and Compilation tag questions

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

I would place the album (only once) in a folder. In my own case, I typically use the ALBUM ARTIST as the folder location. So in your example, I'd have:

ALBUM ARTIST: Chick Corea, Bela Fleck (or I'd probably use: Chick Corea & Bela Fleck)
so that's the folder the album would be placed in. Then for ARTIST I'd have:

ARTIST: Chick Corea; Bela Fleck; Chick Corea & Bela Fleck
ARTISTSORT; Corea, Chick; Fleck, Bela; Chick Corea & Bela Fleck
(note I don't really need to change 3rd duo artist)
this results in 3 artists showing up in the tags, which is good for searching and indexing, etc. But the ALBUM is only on your harddrive ONCE, and it is located in the folder "Chick Corea & Bela Fleck"

p.s. I have dozens of Bela Fleck albums, love seeing him live!

Thanks a lot Gary,

I saw a TV show in 1988 with Bela Fleck and it showed him playing as well as being interviewed. The guitarist in the band had special pads on his guitar which he used to produce DRUM sounds. So the band did not need a drummer! It was quite amazing. He made another duo CD with Chick Corea called "Two", but I don't have that one.

I think I am going to go along with your tagging suggestions.

If I wanted to included an ALBUM_ARTIST_SORT then would it be (the same as ALBUM_ARTIST)?:

'Chick Corea, Bela Fleck'

Cheers,

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

A very good question indeed.

A while ago I asked Illustrate to implement a function to extract a particular multi-value tag value e.g. the first value from Album Artist Sort. Then, this value, could be used as the folder name. This was not forthcoming, so I ended up using the Band tag.

See post no. 10 (last paragraph) from this thread for more explanation on what I do now: Album Artist and Compilation tag questions

Cheers mville,

Well at least I have finally asked a decent question! ha ha.

Thanks for the link. For me though, I would be apprehensive about following suit here for fear of getting it wrong! I have quite a few tags going on now (with each rip) and I am hoping, using Gary's above mentioned scheme, that my problems - in this respect - will be solved.

Much appreciated,

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Hi,

Having made the tagging changes to ARTIST and ALBUM ARTIST etc:

... when I opened up Foobar to see the results, it was not quite what I anticipated (although the results may well be correct!).

I thought the album "The Enchantment" would fall under the (Foobar) ARTISTS of:

Bela Fleck, Chick Corea and Bela Fleck, Chick Corea

In other words, I thought, in Foobar, there would be - on the left hand side in the ARTIST window - a:

Bela Fleck, Chick Corea and Bela Fleck, Chick Corea

There has not been newly created Bela Fleck ARTIST (in Foobar) - though the ARTIST field was created within 'Edit_ID'. There is already a pre-existing Chick Corea ARTIST (in Foobar), however "The Enchantment" (album) does not appear when clicking on the artist (Chick Corea) name?

But, there IS, in the (Foobar) ARTIST window, a: Chick Corea, Bela Fleck, Chick Corea, Bela Fleck, Chick Corea, Bela Fleck, name. And when I click on it "The Enchantment" album appears. But, as I say, I kind of assumed that the album would show up in the pre-existing Chick Corea ARTIST name? It seems a bit strange for it not to. And that there would be a dedicated Bela Fleck ARTIST name so as to search for the album? Though having said this, this might be the way in which it is supposed to work.

Many thanks and I hope I have explained everything OK.

Paul

[mville]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

For me though, I would be apprehensive about following suit here for fear of getting it wrong! I have quite a few tags going on now (with each rip) and I am hoping, using Gary's above mentioned scheme, that my problems - in this respect - will be solved.

That is absolutely fine and I don't expect you or anyone else for that matter, to follow suit.

I was simply trying to answer your inciteful question which highlights a flaw in Illustrate's general approach to tag handling, which may have been fine with single value tags, but is now lacking IMO, with the introduction of multi-value tags.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

That is absolutely fine and I don't expect you or anyone else for that matter, to follow suit.

I was simply trying to answer your inciteful question which highlights a flaw in Illustrate's general approach to tag handling, which may have been fine with single value tags, but is now lacking IMO, with the introduction of multi-value tags.

Hi Mville,

OK, no problem mate. I appreciate your regular assistance.

I will be posting some more questions here tomorrow relating to the same kind of tagging topic. Your help would be, as always, welcomed.

Off topic, whilst looking thru some of the other threads, I did notice that there are a few instances where the OP only posts 2 or 3 questions and then disappears?! Does this happen often? I was wondering if such deadwood threads were started by OPs (not OAPs!) who were testing out the TRIAL version(s)?

Paul

[mville]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

whilst looking thru some of the other threads, I did notice that there are a few instances where the OP only posts 2 or 3 questions and then disappears?! Does this happen often?

This happens very often. I tend to assume that the OP has subsequently discovered an answer to their original question(s), but for reasons unknown, doesn't feel it necessary to update their thread(s).

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

This happens very often. I tend to assume that the OP has subsequently discovered an answer to their original question(s), but for reasons unknown, doesn't feel it necessary to update their thread(s).

Mville,

Yes, quite.

I mean, in some instances the OP literally only makes 2/3 post and then, presumably, leaves the forum. If you have purchased a product then it is most commonplace, these days, to socialize etc on the forum.

However, I am in no way passing judgment here.

Paul