RE: Ripping Level Question (help?)

[garym]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Hi,

I have a question regarding ALBUM_ARTIST, please.

I have been tagging a certain way but today I am wondering if I should have used a different protocol, in this instance.

I ripped a CD by Santana and John McLaughlin called: "Invitation To Illumination". It is a JOINT CD (ie. collaboration):

https://www.discogs.com/Carlos-Santana-John-McLaughlin-Live-At-Montreux-2011-Invitation-To-Illumination/release/4845233

For ARTIST and ALBUM_ARTIST I typed: 'John McLaughlin & Carlos Santana'. For ARTIST_SORT and ALBUM_ARTIST_SORT I, again, typed: 'John McLaughlin & Carlos Santana'. Personally, I like the way this data appears in Foobar:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1724[/ATTACH]

However, I dare say that some might prefer to use - for ARTIST_SORT and ALBUM_ARTIST_SORT - (something like): 'McLaughlin, John; Santana, Carlos'?

I ask because this is the first CD I have copied which is a collaboration; and I do have small a handful more (eg. 'Chick Corea & Bella Fleck' - "The Enchantment") to rip ...

Cheers,

Paul

Why use sort tags if you're putting things in the same order as regular tag. That's the entire point. ARTIST: John McLauglin and then ARTISTSORT: McLauglin, John.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

... here is how I have just tagged 'Chick Corea with Bela Fleck' CD. As I say, I am thinking this might be a more reliable and solid system of tagging than (say): 'Chick Corea & Bela Fleck'. Cheers.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Why use sort tags if you're putting things in the same order as regular tag. That's the entire point. ARTIST: John McLauglin and then ARTISTSORT: McLauglin, John.

Thanks Gary,

But I am not quite with you - my retard!

Do you mean that I don't even need to be using an ARTIST_SORT tag at all?

Cheers,

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

... I think, having experimented with using a 'comma' to replace the 'and' sign, 'Chick Corea, Bela Fleck' (instead of 'Chick Corea & Bela Fleck') looks far more elegant and user friendly.

ARTIST and ALBUM_ARTIST now reads:



Thanks,

Paul

[garym]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

... I think, having experimented with using a 'comma' to replace the 'and' sign, 'Chick Corea, Bela Fleck' (instead of 'Chick Corea & Bela Fleck') looks far more elegant and user friendly.

ARTIST and ALBUM_ARTIST now reads:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1728[/ATTACH]

Thanks,

Paul

yes. Unless this is actually and album of "Chick Corea & Bela Fleck". If this was the case, I'd have three things:

ARTIST: Chick Corea & Bela Fleck; Chick Corea; Bela Fleck

This way there would be a new artist (the combo) and the album would also show up if browsing under the artist Corea or the artist Fleck.

For example, Graham Nash and David Crosby did some duet albums, so one "artist" in my library is "Graham Nash & David Crosby" but I also want those albums showing up inder Graham Nast and David Crosby as separate artists.

[garym]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Thanks Gary,

But I am not quite with you - my retard!

Do you mean that I don't even need to be using an ARTIST_SORT tag at all?

Cheers,

Paul

I think most people that use ARTISTSORT tags only use them if they want the name to be *different* from what's in the ARTIST tag.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

OK, thanks Gary. I am still screaming and jumping up & down at Amazon for a refund for the faulty Sony Walkman. The dispute has dragged on for nearly 8 x weeks now! Paul

Got my full refund today, finally!

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

I think most people that use ARTISTSORT tags only use them if they want the name to be *different* from what's in the ARTIST tag.

Cheers Gary, And to play Devils advocate, why might someone want to do that, please?! Thanks.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

yes. Unless this is actually and album of "Chick Corea & Bela Fleck". If this was the case, I'd have three things:

ARTIST: Chick Corea & Bela Fleck; Chick Corea; Bela Fleck

This way there would be a new artist (the combo) and the album would also show up if browsing under the artist Corea or the artist Fleck.

For example, Graham Nash and David Crosby did some duet albums, so one "artist" in my library is "Graham Nash & David Crosby" but I also want those albums showing up under Graham Nash and David Crosby as separate artists.

Much appreciated Gary,

1 - So, if (under ARTIST and ALBUM_ARTIST) you place a 'comma' (ie. Chick Corea, Bela Fleck) then, in foobar, the album ("The Enchantment") shows up ONLY under: 'Chick Corea, Bela Fleck':



(I find this first method to be my personal favourite.)

2 - And if, (under ARTIST and ALBUM_ARTIST) you place a 'semicolon' (ie. Chick Corea; Bela Fleck) then, in foobar, the album ("The Enchantment") shows up under both: 'Chick Corea' and 'Bela Fleck':





3 - Finally if, (under ARTIST and ALBUM_ARTIST) you have a 'semicolon' and use a third tag (eg. Chick Corea; Bela Fleck; Chick Corea & Bela Fleck) then, in foobar, the album ("The Enchantment") shows up under: 'Chick Corea', 'Bela Fleck', and 'Chick Corea & Bela Fleck'!



I believe this latter mentioned is the method you you favour; considering "The Enchantment" is a duo album (with not other musicians other than Corea and Fleck)?; and I can see your point. Personally, I find that having the same album appearing 3 times swallows up a bit of real estate (I mean, I would rather just see/find it once).

Thanks a lot,

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

You probably need to get your head around the difference between a single tag and a multi-value tag and which tags are single and multi-value, as not all tags are multi-value e.g. the Album tag.

For a multi-value tag, Illustrate uses the semi-colon purely as a searator for display purposes. Example, Composer and Composer Sort are multi-value tags:
Composer Sort = Lennon, John; McCartney, Paul

here, composer sort holds 2 separate data values Lennon, John and McCartney, Paul with no semi-colon. The semi-colon is purely for display.

Hi Mville,

Could I use commas and semicolons (in my tagging) for the following purposes, please:





I am planning to do away with the forward-slash '/'.

Cheers,

Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

I think most people that use ARTISTSORT tags only use them if they want the name to be *different* from what's in the ARTIST tag.

Certainly, I use them as garym states.

[mville]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Could I use commas and semicolons (in my tagging) for the following purposes, please:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1733[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1734[/ATTACH]

I am planning to do away with the forward-slash '/'.

Yes, but I don't think you have fully understood the use of multi-value tags and the semi-colon separator. Artist is a multi-value tag. From your screenshot, you have:

Artist = Chick Corea, Bela Fleck
so artist contains one data value, i.e. one artist Chick Corea, Bela Fleck

But your Artist Sort = Corea, Chick; Fleck, Bela
so artist sort contains two data values, i.e. two artists Corea, Chick and Fleck, Bela (separated using the semi-colon)

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Yes, but I don't think you have fully understood the use of multi-value tags and the semi-colon separator. Artist is a multi-value tag. From your screenshot, you have:

Artist = Chick Corea, Bela Fleck
so artist contains one data value, i.e. one artist Chick Corea, Bela Fleck

But your Artist Sort = Corea, Chick; Fleck, Bela
so artist sort contains two data values, i.e. two artists Corea, Chick and Fleck, Bela (separated using the semi-colon)

Hi mville,

Thanks a lot.

Damn, I thought I had sussed it! I had been going over your Lennon and McCartney example.

So, what, please, should I write in the ARTIST and ARTIST SORT fields? I am dying to know so that I can finally get it right!? lol

Should I have written (for ARTIST): 'Chick Corea; Bela Fleck'? I did try this (as per earlier screenshot) but then the same album is placed twice within foobar (ie. under Corea and under Fleck).

Cheers,

Paul

[mville]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Damn, I thought I had sussed it! I had been going over your Lennon and McCartney example.

So, what, please, should I write in the ARTIST and ARTIST SORT fields? I am dying to know so that I can finally get it right!? lol

Should I have written (for ARTIST): 'Chick Corea; Bela Fleck'? I did try this (as per earlier screenshot) but then the same album is placed twice within foobar (ie. under Corea and under Fleck).

Yes, it will appear twice as you have specified 2 artists. If you don't want 2 artists don't use the semi-colon as it is the separator that tells the software that you have 2 artists.

In my example for composer I have:
Composer = John Lennon; Paul McCartney
Composer Sort = Lennon, John; McCartney, Paul

so composer holds 2 composers, with 2 corresponding sort values, which is what I want.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)

Yes, it will appear twice as you have specified 2 artists. If you don't want 2 artists don't use the semi-colon as it is the separator that tells the software that you have 2 artists.

In my example for composer I have:
Composer = John Lennon; Paul McCartney
Composer Sort = Lennon, John; McCartney, Paul

so composer holds 2 composers, with 2 corresponding sort values, which is what I want.

Thanks a lot mville,

I really appreciate that.

Because I don't want the same album to appear twice, then I will leave the ARTIST tag as it is, thanks. But, can I leave the ARTIST SORT tag as it is, please?, ie. with the semicolon?

I will post some more questions tomorrow if that's OK, as I plan to make some additional modifications to my current tagging system.

Cheers,

Paul