Set-Up for Ripping

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, Oggy:

I don't know what Hidden First Track is, or what it contains. Do I want what it contains? I just want to listen to music.

Don

Hidden first track is another song on the CD that doesn't show up in the song listing. I think I have 2 or 3 CDs with hidden first tracks out of 6,000+ CDs. Like Oggy, I leave the option "unchecked" just in case one exists.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, Oggy:

I don't know what Hidden First Track is, or what it contains. Do I want what it contains? I just want to listen to music.

Don

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks Oggy,

I appreciate your practical approach. Now that I'm starting to DO it, here's a couple of things that come up.

1) You recommend ripping 2-disc sets into 2 folders (disk for disk). I'm not sure how to accomplish that or (if I wished to) how to put two disks together in one folder either. What are these two methods?

2) As you know I have ripped two disks for Rigoletto. Now when I look at the "Lower Left" (LL) box under the Tag tab I see some of the items (tags) greyed out even though they have a value indicated. What is that about?

3) Do Number, Count, and Name (at the top) all refer to Movement: (as suggested by the colon)? If not, what do they relate to? (There is no {?} to tell about this.)

4) Also, I see that some of the elements at the top do not appear in LL box (and vice-versa). What do I make of this disparity?

Work (not in LL box, Tags)
Movement (not in LL box, Tags)

Catalog (not at top)
Chorus (not at top)
Label (not at top)
Conductor (not at top)
Conductor Sort (not at top)
Orchestra (not at top)
Composer (not at top)
Composer Sort (not at top)
MBID (not at top)
Profile (not at top)


5) What do I make of the red "[x]" at the right of the Tag list? (LL Box]?

6) What do these two check boxes mean and what do I do with them (under CD Ripper Options)?
&*8226; Read-in to lead-in or lead-out
&*8226; Prevent detection of hidden first track

7) I assume "compilation" box is to be checked when the CD contains more than one Genus?, Artist?, Work?....What?

8) I really don't know what to do with the DSP Tab. What's it do and how do I do it?

Don

Don,

I believe Work, Movement etc. is only for comparability with iTunes, from 12.5 on. I don't know of anything outside of an Apple environment, and even then in the last year or two, that uses them.

The option only comes up with Genre set to Classical and Opera, and not Chamber Music or Orchestral. The only reason I can think of for the greyed out box, is because these Movement and Work tags are supported in AAC and Apple Lossless.

I have Read into Lead-in or Lead-out, checked, if your CD drive protests, uncheck it.

I have Prevent Detection of Hidden First Track, unchecked, as I want to attempt to rip the HTOA, hidden track one audio. This is a hidden track in the pre-gap before track 1, and is not at all common.

The ones I have seen, didn't have the track name, but the warning, something like, HTOA, the ability to rip, depends on the CD drive. They are not kidding! Most of my CD drives failed to give sound on the hidden track on White Ladder, by David Gray. A Pioneer CD drive, cracked it. Most people who own this CD, probably have no idea it is there!

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

5) Throughout this thread you've very kindly included name coding for several different circumstances. I find these codes difficult to understand and know what they yield. Therefore, may I ask that you summarize here the strings for me to start with. I would like to start each with genus and I guess I will need one for classical and one for non (If I'm understanding correctly &*8211; items 1 nd 2 above).
Would you be willing to (again) put down the correct strings for Classical and Non as I've detailed in item 1 above?

My sincere thanks,
Don

nonclassical naming string:

[IFCOMP]Compilations\[genre]\[album] [IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][genre]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][]

note, i haven't given you the thing you asked for (Artist subdirectory UNDERNEATH Album subdirectory). Sorry, but this organization is nonsensical. But if you really want that, use the following (and try it and you'll see how bizarre the file organization is)

[IFCOMP]Compilations\[genre]\[album] [IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][genre]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[track] - [title][]

I'm struggling a bit with classical. I thought dbpa now recognizes the WORK tag, but I can't get it to show up in a naming string properly. Someone else will have to assist with this. But you can learn a lot using the above string for ripping your nonclassical CDs.

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

1) You recommend ripping 2-disc sets into 2 folders (disk for disk). I'm not sure how to accomplish that or (if I wished to) how to put two disks together in one folder either. What are these two methods?
2) Do I understand correctly that each different naming string is given an identification name, e.g., "C" (Classical) or "NC" (NonClassical) and that these identification names are listed in Profile? Profile (in the lower-left box) would then be set to C or NC according to the nature of each CD being ripped and that would automatically insert the correct naming string?
3) If so, that must mean, that if I put in a naming string that has its elements in a different order, the File Explorer display of folders and subfolders will shift accordingly; is that true?
4) If the album is a compilation do I need a separate filename string, or just check the compilation box?
8) I really don't know what to do with the DSP Tab. What's it do and how do I do it?

1). Use the naming string that I gave you and it will automatically create an album with subfolders for each disk. This is just for file organization. A player will still PLAY the disks as if they are one album.
2). it is not automatic. You have two different ripping profiles with name. When you insert a pop CD to rip, you'll choose the NC profile in the lower left ripping options box. When ripping a classical CD, you'll use the C profile. It is just an easy selection, as the profile info is already set up, you're just picking the right profile.
3.) TRUE
4.)just check compilation box when ripping
8) don't worry too much about this. Very little is done there for most people. I only put one thing there. The "ReplayGain" DSP. This adds tag information that can be used to automatically adjust playback volume between tracks/albums. I have the dsp add both TRACK and ALBUM gain, using the R128 method, left at default of "-18"

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

In the above post, I ignored Artist Album / Artist, and how to deal with Compilations.

If you want an album from an Artist such as The Black Eyed Peas, you may have featured artist on a number of tracks. In this instance, on the tracks that contain a featured artist, I would use the ; before the featured artist, ensure the compilation box is not checked, and use The Black Eyed Peas as the Album Artist.

In a Compilation, featuring different Artists on every track, I would tick the Compilation check box, so the album would go in the Various Artist, folder, or in my library, because I changed Various Artists, to Compilations, in the naming scheme, the Compilations folder.

Again when ripping a compilation box set, I would use the same name on each disc, 101 Hits, but the disc numbers 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, 4/5, 5/5. This would give a folder tree of, Compilations, 101 Hits, Disc 1, Disc 2, Disc 3, Disc 4, Disc 5.

In Windows, I would have individual folders for every disc, but on my player, because the Album name is consistent, they show, and play as one album.

I am always open to any suggestions that would make my CD ripping easier, and help create a more logical library. I have got it easy enough that I rip directly to my NAS, and mistakes excepted, rarely have to edit.

This took over a year, mostly because I didn't have a player, and hadn't used foobar2000, so I didn't really know what I wanted to achieve. Most people want to "Do it once, do it right" - we just need to know what that "right", actually is!

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi Don and nicholson2002,

Don, pleased that you are getting stuck in, and looking at boxes and options. Sooner or later we all have to simply get stuck in, and rip some CDs. If we don't like the result, simply delete it and try again!

The non classical double CD, is probably the simplest to explain, but the mechanics are identical for all multi disc box sets.

Somewhere in these threads, and became of the excellent, informative answers from a number of people, are well worth reading again, I believe garym gave a naming scheme, and an explanation of how this works for single discs, multi disc sets from a single artist, and compilation box sets.

He also had a screen shot of dBpoweramp: CD Ripper Naming. Don, I know you have found this, as you have commented on some of the options.

Clicking on the dBpoweramp CD Ripper, icon, brings up the main page, and in the lower corner, you have, Profile, Rip to, Path with a Set, Naming with a set, and CD Drive.

On the Profile, you have (default), I recommend not deleting this, but [Create Profile], give it a name, I've got one named Garym! From here, have a play.

Once you have cut and pasted a naming scheme, ensuring no extra spaces are inserted, the naming scheme for each Profile, shows in the Naming box. Click Set.This brings up the box that garym posted the screen shot of - extremely helpful.

In the middle, are three tickets boxes, Current Disc Metadata, Compilation, and Multi-Disc.

In the big box underneath, in version 16, from memory 15 was slightly different, but gave the same outcome, you have in version 16:-

Album Artist\Album Title\05 Artist - Title.

This little string is so helpful. It shows that a folder with the Album Artist name is going to be created, with a sub-folder named Album Title.

If you tick the Multi-Disc box, the string looks very similar, but adds a Disc 1, into the equation. The naming scheme, the default, garym's and countless other well thought out schemes, handle multi-disc box sets, and compilations, automatically.

Ticking the Compilation box, shows you a folder named Various Artists, will be created. Ticking Compilation and Multi-Disc, shows how a multi disc box set is handled. My first customisation, was to change, Various Artists, in the string, to Compilations, so my folder, and searches is Compilations.

If I had read the help topics more thoroughly, I would have known this! Illustrate, have given us an incredibly powerful, flexible program, with lots of help; I for one, made it harder, by ignoring this assistance!!

Now we have a naming scheme that automatically copes with double, triple albums, etc, all we have to do, is name consistently, to get the job done.

Using, Pink Floyd, The Wall, as an example. In Disc 1,

Artist Pink Floyd

Album The Wall, Disc One

Disc 1/2

Will give a folder Pink Floyd, with a sub-folder of The Wall Disc One.

Personally, I think the album is called The Wall, not The Wall Disc One so I would tag disc 1, like this:-

Artist Pink Floyd

Album The Wall

Disc 1/2

This would give a folder tree like this, Pink Floyd, The Wall, Disc 1

As we have a double album, disc 2, I would name like this:-

Artist Pink Floyd

Album The Wall

Disc 2/2

So this creates folders, Pink Floyd, The Wall, Disc 2

Having ripped the double CD, I have a Pink Floyd folder, which holds, The Wall, Disc 1 and Disc 2.

When I look at my player, app, I search on Pink Floyd, The Wall, and both Disc 1 and Disc 2, are combined. I don't know how all apps work, try for yourself.

I know some friends who would name the album, The Wall Disc 1 and Disc 2, and some simply use, The Wall. You can use playlist to get disc 2 to play automatically after disc 1. Like so much in creating a personal library, it is literally personal choice.

Whilst I was tagging this album, I would fill in Genre as Rock, and Year as 1979. I see this as a Rock album, and it was originally released in 1979. If your player supports, Artist/Album/Year, some do, some don't, you can display the library, in a largely correct, chronological order - if you choose.

If you have more Pink Floyd, and several copies of Dark Side Of The Moon, like I have, I named the albums:-

Dark Side Of The Moon

Dark Side Of The Moon (MFSL)

Dark Side Of The Moon (Remaster)

All of these I tagged Rock and Year 1973

This works well for me, BUT, we are all creating a personal library.

Now, to put The Wall, into a single folder.

Disc 1, name like this:-

Artist Pink Floyd

Album The Wall

Disc 1/1

Apply track offset. If you apply track offset of +100, you get 101 for disc 1, track 1.

Disc 2, name like this:-

Artist Pink Floyd

Album The Wall

Disc 1/1

Apply track offset. +100 and another +100, you get 201 for disc 2, track 1.

In all of this, the naming must be consistent.

The first method you have 1/2, 2/2, creating two folders, and in the second, because you are using 1/1 on both discs, they both go in one folder.

I did use the single folder method for a while, but because it was so easy to forget to apply the correct offset by the time you had got to disc 10 in a box set, I made numerous mistakes, often giving two different discs the same track numbers, in a single folder. This was a complete mess.

The second method, also takes far more intervention and time to achieve.

On the advice of garym and mville, I abandoned this, and use the first approach. It achieves almost the exact same outcome, with far less and timely effort, and I now only very occasionally make mistakes, and, even when I do, they are far simpler to rectify.

A sincere thank you, to all who have helped me. KISS!

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

garym:

OK, I'm getting right down to it now; ripping a few CD's that is.

I believe you have suggested a week or so ago, that I use different naming strings for classical vs. non-classical. That means changing the naming string as I do different CD's.

1) As I see it, for classical, composer (Beethoven) would be of prime interest (followed by Work), while for pop, the artist (Elvis or Benny Goodman) would be of prime interest. Composer and Artist, however, are different tags, and since the naming string comes from tags the naming strings would need to be different. Do I have that right?

Classical: Genus>Album>Work>Composer
Pop: Genus>Album>Artist

2) Do I understand correctly that each different naming string is given an identification name, e.g., "C" (Classical) or "NC" (NonClassical) and that these identification names are listed in Profile? Profile (in the lower-left box) would then be set to C or NC according to the nature of each CD being ripped and that would automatically insert the correct naming string?

3) If so, that must mean, that if I put in a naming string that has its elements in a different order, the File Explorer display of folders and subfolders will shift accordingly; is that true?

4) If the album is a compilation do I need a separate filename string, or just check the compilation box?

5) Throughout this thread you've very kindly included name coding for several different circumstances. I find these codes difficult to understand and know what they yield. Therefore, may I ask that you summarize here the strings for me to start with. I would like to start each with genus and I guess I will need one for classical and one for non (If I'm understanding correctly – items 1 nd 2 above).
Would you be willing to (again) put down the correct strings for Classical and Non as I've detailed in item 1 above?

My sincere thanks,
Don

[nicholson2002]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

When I first started ripping CDs, I also didn't have a player, so probably concentrated on folders too much. I put multi disc box sets into single folders. This not only created extra work, but I made errors doing this, which took time to correct.

Interesting. I am new to this game but must admit I do precisely that which you have warned against.

Back in the day, I attended a Neil Diamond concert in LA that was subsequently released as "Hot August Night" on 2 CDs. I could not imagine wanting to split that into two folders simply because the available recording technology required it be on two separate CDs. Another example would be Pink Floyd's "The Wall". There are, of course, exceptions. Some CD sets are distinctly different in their individual nature and I would treat them accordingly

On the other hand, not only do I put multiple disc box sets into single folders, but I also split some single albums into several different parts, e.g. if a particular CD had three different symphonies on it, I would break it down to have one folder for each of the symphonies. If I'm in a mood to listen to, say, Mozart's Symphony No. 36 in C major I want the music to finish at the end of the fourth movement. I do not want it to continue on to some other work.

I understand that all this implies extra work and a greater likelihood of errors but to me all that means is that the application developers aren't (yet) doing their job properly and providing an application that really meets the users' needs. As a Plex user I would have to say that I see this happening all the time.

I'd be interested in your views? Am I expecting too much? Am I digging myself a hole?

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks Oggy,

I appreciate your practical approach. Now that I'm starting to DO it, here's a couple of things that come up.

1) You recommend ripping 2-disc sets into 2 folders (disk for disk). I'm not sure how to accomplish that or (if I wished to) how to put two disks together in one folder either. What are these two methods?

2) As you know I have ripped two disks for Rigoletto. Now when I look at the "Lower Left" (LL) box under the Tag tab I see some of the items (tags) greyed out even though they have a value indicated. What is that about?

3) Do Number, Count, and Name (at the top) all refer to Movement: (as suggested by the colon)? If not, what do they relate to? (There is no {?} to tell about this.)

4) Also, I see that some of the elements at the top do not appear in LL box (and vice-versa). What do I make of this disparity?

Work (not in LL box, Tags)
Movement (not in LL box, Tags)

Catalog (not at top)
Chorus (not at top)
Label (not at top)
Conductor (not at top)
Conductor Sort (not at top)
Orchestra (not at top)
Composer (not at top)
Composer Sort (not at top)
MBID (not at top)
Profile (not at top)


5) What do I make of the red "[x]" at the right of the Tag list? (LL Box]?

6) What do these two check boxes mean and what do I do with them (under CD Ripper Options)?
&*8226; Read-in to lead-in or lead-out
&*8226; Prevent detection of hidden first track

7) I assume "compilation" box is to be checked when the CD contains more than one Genus?, Artist?, Work?....What?

8) I really don't know what to do with the DSP Tab. What's it do and how do I do it?

Don

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi Don,

The 6 P's, stand for, Proper Planning Prevents Pitifully Poor Performance, or something very similar.

By asking your questions, and clarifying things in your mind, together with a good naming scheme, you are well and truly taking care of that, and judging by your last few posts, the terminology is making sense.

When I first started ripping CDs, I also didn't have a player, so probably concentrated on folders too much. I put multi disc box sets into single folders. This not only created extra work, but I made errors doing this, which took time to correct.

If I had either downloaded foobar2000 earlier, or tried my files on my proposed player, and control point, sooner, I would have seen that the player offers many different playback options, and offers several search options.

garym and mville, suggested a naming scheme which not only made ripping double albums, and multi disc box sets quicker, with far less manual intervention required, individual discs went into their own folder. If I did make a mistake, rectifying it was much easier, back to KISS principles again.

I don't know if there is a good reason, not to do this?

Until people start using a player, I can totally see the focus on folders, but in the real world of playing music files, you don't play folders, you play albums, individual or multiple tracks from artists.

If I was in the same position again, I would follow my earlier advice to you, rip a few CDs to USB, visit a dealer and see how these work, on my tablet, with the player I was interested in. In your case, this would quickly show how the Bluesound app, is manipulating your tags, and displaying the cover art.

I sold Hi-Fi for 12 years, most dealers (and hopefully potential customers!) enjoy a demonstration. If the dealer can't, or won't give a good demonstration, offering advice, do they deserve your business?

Regards,
Oggy

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi garym:

Thanks for the very clear summary. When I began this network process I looked for two months for someone to tell me exactly what a system and its components was comprised of, and never did find it in a single comprehensive presentation like you just gave.. Finally I pulled out of many different people, bit by bit, until I arrived at the picture you just described in one page! Excellent!

It's been a slog for me; my background in hi-fi goes back to it's monaural beginnings when we built Heathkits and our own speaker cabinets from plywood (my friends did, I didn't but I learned the stuff). Understanding the circuits and components of those early systems is entrenched in my mind and it's been hard to rejigger it to get with the networking thinking.

I intend to use FLAC. My system will probably look like: rip with dbpa to C: then copy/paste the root music file to a NAS (Synology or QNAP); play through a Bluesound player (either Node2 to my preamp/amp, or PowerNode2 direct to my speakers); my remote would be iPhone.

If you have any comments on any of this I welcome them.

Thanks, Don

Your plan for storage/server/player/controller sound very reasonable to me.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi garym:

Thanks for the very clear summary. When I began this network process I looked for two months for someone to tell me exactly what a system and its components was comprised of, and never did find it in a single comprehensive presentation like you just gave.. Finally I pulled out of many different people, bit by bit, until I arrived at the picture you just described in one page! Excellent!

It's been a slog for me; my background in hi-fi goes back to it's monaural beginnings when we built Heathkits and our own speaker cabinets from plywood (my friends did, I didn't but I learned the stuff). Understanding the circuits and components of those early systems is entrenched in my mind and it's been hard to rejigger it to get with the networking thinking.

I intend to use FLAC. My system will probably look like: rip with dbpa to C: then copy/paste the root music file to a NAS (Synology or QNAP); play through a Bluesound player (either Node2 to my preamp/amp, or PowerNode2 direct to my speakers); my remote would be iPhone.

If you have any comments on any of this I welcome them.

Thanks, Don

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

foobar2000 is simply a windows music combination server/player. just like windows media player or itunes (but more flexible). You haven't mentioned what codec you plan to rip your files to. FLAC, Apple Lossless, mp3, m4a, etc. We of course recommend lossless (FLAC or Apple Lossless) and for a windows envioronment, FLAC is the codec of choice. I don't think WMP works with FLAC (maybe it does now).

But I would never let WMP touch/play my files. It does a lot of behind the scenes changes to your tags and artwork, without your permission.

not to confuse you, but keep in mind that there is more to all this than having a "player". You have really 3 or 4 major pieces.

1. digital music files
2. organized and maintained in some sort of server that will feed these files to your player (could be your Windows computer or even built in to the player).
3. networked music player (this is the actual player, connected to your stereo)
4. Controller (this could be combined with the server in *2, or something separate like a tablet, a smart phone, etc.).

Think of this like a showing a movie in the old days.

you need
1. the film (equivalent to the digital files)
2. the projector (think about this as the server)
3. the screen (think about this as the player)
4. controller....like having a remote control you can point at the player or server to fast forward or stop,start.

In my own case I use this.

1. files are FLAC files
2. Server is a headless small "computer" connected to my network via ethernet, stuck in a back cabinet of my home, running Logitech Media Server (LMS) containing all my digital files.
3. My players are Squeezebox network music players. I have several of these around the house (some wifi and some ethernet connected), including one connected to my main stereo (think of this "box" like a CD player. It's something connected to my preamp that will provide audio to the system).
4. I control all this (see my library, album art, choose artist, albums, songs, stop, start, change volume, etc.) from different possible control points. I can use my iphone, my ipad, or my windows laptop.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thank you Oggy and schmidj. Oggy, I think you said it all when you said that one of the advangages of dBpoweramp is: "dBpoweramp also has an incredibly useful, knowledgeable, friendly forum,"

I've printed out these form responses for my archive and will dig deeper into them as I am able to proceed with more intense focus. Let me, just now, ask a few central questions that will, I think, lead to a plan of action for me to follow:

1) What are the "6P's"?.

2) I think there may be (in my mind at least) some interchange of thinking between the organization of filenames, and organization of tags. At this point I think I have concluded (with your help) that organizing names has virtually nothing to do with selecting and listening to music, and that their organization, while established by the naming string, matters little; while tags, on the other hand, are not something that are organized in any sequence at all, but only something that is SELECTED (either as default or edited) for use by a Player. (I'm not sure I fully understand what constraints may exists on such tag selection -- constraints by dbpa or by the player I use).

3) So now, I see my next steps as moving to the tag/player stage. Since I don't yet have my desired player (Bluesound) I'm wondering if this is what you have suggested Foobar for; or does Foobar serve some other purpose for me as well? (I have downloaded it). Would another approach be to simply use Windows Media Player?

Regarding filename, I think the only question I have remaining is the one I asked in my thread "Strange Results." As yet, I haven't had time to dig to deeply into your answers yet on that, but perhaps that will come clear as I move ahead. Since naming is not on the critical path to tagging and listening, I'm inclined to set that question on the back burner for now.

Regarding Tags and the next stage of this process I hope my question will be able to relate simply to implementing Foobar (or whatever you recommend for now). I'm hoping that I see light emerging at the end of the tunnel.

BTW, the reason I'm holding off on getting a Bluesound player (and a NASO is because when I do that I have some question to answer as it's hookup and more particularly performance and power (as relates to my environment and current stereo equipment) that I will need to decide upon within the time allowed for a "free" return in the event it doesn't meet my needs. Given that 30 day time window I don't want to be learning the music file database system at the same time I'm doing the hardware, because I'm probably too busy to get both done within that time window. So, first things first.

My best regards,
Don