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Re: Set-Up for Ripping
Hi, mville,
No offense taken. I've learned a great deal from you, and I appreciate your posts. Thank you.
I do believe that sometimes you may not recognize that the image you have formed in your mind about what I'm all about doesn't match the reality. For example, you indicated that I should become familiar with PC operating systems. The reality is that I've been using Windows for 37 years, since before it was Windows but was DOS. Your characterization is most inaccurate and does me a real disservice. I understand the differences between files and folders quite well, but once you have assumed otherwise it indeed does color your thinking about the person you are communicating with; you (and others on the Forum) are more likely to write off a problem I have as one of ignorance of the OS, rather than seek to understand precisely what nuance it is that prompted the question in the first place (so the nuance goes unanswered and prompts more questions). In such case the problem is not one of "lack of education" on either end of the line, but of miscommunication, or misunderstanding, or lack of context.
When two people communicate the objective is to create in the receiver's mind the same image that starts out in the sender's mind. A degradation of meaning can happen when those images are put into words &*8211; and that problem exists in both directions. Both parties need to guard against that possibility and not make the assumption they have been clear and the other party is "slow," and, they need to be open to having the other party seek clarification. Seeking clarification is not a criticism of a person, but of the clarity of the words and phrases used to convey a meaning. Words can and do fail &*8211; again, in both directions.
You perhaps recall the emphasis that I (in the beginning) put on clear definition of "tags," "fields," "values," etc. You and the other Forum members convinced me at that time that in this case clear definition is not going to happen; i.e., "that horse has already left the barn." I have accepted that, but it does place an added burden on all of us to be more careful and exact with our written words. We can, indeed, overcome loose definitions, but it does often require more back and forth than would otherwise be necessary.
One of your strengths (and others on this Forum) is that you are thoroughly familiar with dbpa. That familiarity can, however, become a difficulty when it results in "assuming away" or skipping over a host of background, orienting information that is necessary to understand any given point you are making. Things you take for granted may need explanation to a beginner and you may not even realize it. Without such background understanding and context, a good answer to a question can fall on bare ground and not take root (and prompt more questions).
Your example of knowing the fundamentals of math before studying higher math is entirely relevant. The thing here is that nobody was born knowing anything about dbpa; they are a blank slate regarding how it operates, and they don't know the fundamental principles by which it works. To overcome that is exactly why they come to the Forum.
Unfortunately, the help sections in dbpa are sketchy at best, and don't do the job, even after several readings (although they may be clear to those who understand the program well). A newbie expects to ask "stupid" questions and receive thoughtful answers. If the answers fail to convey understanding, or reflect a misunderstanding of his question, he will seek clarification. That's what this is all about. Several Forum members have stated clearly that their own learning curve was a long, hard slog.
My experience is that everyone in this Forum is not only bright, but serious and dedicated to learning and being helpful. In addition, they are patient and persistent. I will miss your expertise and your posts.
Early in this thread someone encouraged me to not get discourage, but to hang in there; I think it was Oggy. I appreciated that encouragement; it was, however, not necessary as "persistence" is my middle name, and I am going to "wrestle this to the ground." Actually, I've come a long way, and I don't have much farther to go. I really am "getting it" thanks to you and the other Forum members, but there are still a few holes remaining in my knowledge.
After a long wait, UPS failed to deliver my Synology NAS so as of today that is now in shipment again, and in a week or two I'll be able to move ahead with the hardware. In the meantime, I'm plugging up the few remaining holes in my dbpa understanding.
My best regards to you,
dbarnby
Hi, mville,
No offense taken. I've learned a great deal from you, and I appreciate your posts. Thank you.
I do believe that sometimes you may not recognize that the image you have formed in your mind about what I'm all about doesn't match the reality. For example, you indicated that I should become familiar with PC operating systems. The reality is that I've been using Windows for 37 years, since before it was Windows but was DOS. Your characterization is most inaccurate and does me a real disservice. I understand the differences between files and folders quite well, but once you have assumed otherwise it indeed does color your thinking about the person you are communicating with; you (and others on the Forum) are more likely to write off a problem I have as one of ignorance of the OS, rather than seek to understand precisely what nuance it is that prompted the question in the first place (so the nuance goes unanswered and prompts more questions). In such case the problem is not one of "lack of education" on either end of the line, but of miscommunication, or misunderstanding, or lack of context.
When two people communicate the objective is to create in the receiver's mind the same image that starts out in the sender's mind. A degradation of meaning can happen when those images are put into words &*8211; and that problem exists in both directions. Both parties need to guard against that possibility and not make the assumption they have been clear and the other party is "slow," and, they need to be open to having the other party seek clarification. Seeking clarification is not a criticism of a person, but of the clarity of the words and phrases used to convey a meaning. Words can and do fail &*8211; again, in both directions.
You perhaps recall the emphasis that I (in the beginning) put on clear definition of "tags," "fields," "values," etc. You and the other Forum members convinced me at that time that in this case clear definition is not going to happen; i.e., "that horse has already left the barn." I have accepted that, but it does place an added burden on all of us to be more careful and exact with our written words. We can, indeed, overcome loose definitions, but it does often require more back and forth than would otherwise be necessary.
One of your strengths (and others on this Forum) is that you are thoroughly familiar with dbpa. That familiarity can, however, become a difficulty when it results in "assuming away" or skipping over a host of background, orienting information that is necessary to understand any given point you are making. Things you take for granted may need explanation to a beginner and you may not even realize it. Without such background understanding and context, a good answer to a question can fall on bare ground and not take root (and prompt more questions).
Your example of knowing the fundamentals of math before studying higher math is entirely relevant. The thing here is that nobody was born knowing anything about dbpa; they are a blank slate regarding how it operates, and they don't know the fundamental principles by which it works. To overcome that is exactly why they come to the Forum.
Unfortunately, the help sections in dbpa are sketchy at best, and don't do the job, even after several readings (although they may be clear to those who understand the program well). A newbie expects to ask "stupid" questions and receive thoughtful answers. If the answers fail to convey understanding, or reflect a misunderstanding of his question, he will seek clarification. That's what this is all about. Several Forum members have stated clearly that their own learning curve was a long, hard slog.
My experience is that everyone in this Forum is not only bright, but serious and dedicated to learning and being helpful. In addition, they are patient and persistent. I will miss your expertise and your posts.
Early in this thread someone encouraged me to not get discourage, but to hang in there; I think it was Oggy. I appreciated that encouragement; it was, however, not necessary as "persistence" is my middle name, and I am going to "wrestle this to the ground." Actually, I've come a long way, and I don't have much farther to go. I really am "getting it" thanks to you and the other Forum members, but there are still a few holes remaining in my knowledge.
After a long wait, UPS failed to deliver my Synology NAS so as of today that is now in shipment again, and in a week or two I'll be able to move ahead with the hardware. In the meantime, I'm plugging up the few remaining holes in my dbpa understanding.
My best regards to you,
dbarnby
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