Set-Up for Ripping

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

dbarnby, I think your recent questions have been answered now except for foobar2000. foobar2000 is very very flexible so it can show you things almost anyway you want. I can't really help on your question as I use the "facets" component for foobar2000 and the display under that is different from the basic foobar2000 display.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi mville,

I am confused. What I see when I rip a CD is that all tracks are checked (check box to the left of track name). That would suggest, as I understand your last post, that the composer name placed in the composer text box is applied to all tracks. Yet, if the CD contains two works by different composers then some of the tracks will have the wrong composer assigned.

Is this properly dealt with by typing "various" in the composer tag text box and then letting the internet search assign the correct composer to each track?

Thanks,
Don

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I am confused. What I see when I rip a CD is that all tracks are checked (check box to the left of track name). That would suggest, as I understand your last post, that the composer name placed in the composer text box is applied to all tracks. Yet, if the CD contains two works by different composers then some of the tracks will have the wrong composer assigned.

Is this properly dealt with by typing "various" in the composer tag text box and then letting the internet search assign the correct composer to each track?

The checkbox is telling the software which tracks to rip. You select a track by clicking on it and highlighting it.

Go here dBpoweramp CD Ripper and read the Meta Data section.

I would add this: When I get new software that I am not familiar with, I read the manual/help, to get a feel for what is going on (here the manual is the online web help pages). Most of what I read I don't understand on first read. So, I read again 2 or 3 times, whilst playing with the software until I begin to get an understanding of the interface and it's features. I have been using the software for many years now, but I still occasionally refer to the help.

What I really don't understand is that you do not know how to use the software, but despite my recommendations to read the help, you are reluctant. Of course you are confused, because you haven't read the help pages.

If after reading the help, you are still stuck, you are able to search these forums, as many of the issues you raise have been discussed many times before. I am always happy to help users, but you can start by first helping yourself.

Please tell me, if you think my comments are unreasonable.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi mville,

I have, indeed read the help sections several times, and I have also read this entire thread at least three times. What's true is that, taken together, these are deep and wide and contain a great deal of information. Actually, I understand quite a lot, thanks to all you guys on the forum. However, when I am stuck on one point, it is not so efficient to go back and look through over 250 posts and the "online" manuals to try and find where that item is discussed.

I am well aware that you have pointed out to me that some of my questions get asked several times. That's for a number of reasons: I don't always understand the answers given. There can be several reasons for that: unfamiliarity with the technical jargon used by true gurus in the field, the general absence of standard terminology, not only in the industry but between forum participants, misunderstanding of the gist of my question leading to answers that miss the point, and, quite candidly, answers which are partial or crafted such that they require further questioning -- and on and on. "Emailing" back and forth is truly not anywhere near as efficient or effective as face-to-face conversation. In no way am I suggesting that the answers aren't in there somewhere. (Reminds me of the joke punch-line: "There must be a pony in here somewhere.") Also, given the steepness of the learning curve and the blizzard of information accompanying it, items do slip by. Further, I am certain that when your are as old as I am some things will slip your memory just as they do mine (I don't wish that on you but it WILL happen -- assuming Trump doesn't start a nuclear war and kill us all before that).

Please have confidence that I am working at this tooth-and-nail and making significant progress and am on the verge of proceeding with major ripping. I am hopeful, however, that I can proceed with confidence regarding the issue addressed in post *288 since, for classical music, I plan to do my searching by composer. If you, or someone else can speak to that question it will be a great help, and I will be most appreciative. (I do think *288 is worded clearly; however if not, give me a jungle and I'll rephrase it for you.)

Best regards,
Don

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi Don,

I would suggest that the hardest CD to name (tag), is a Classical compilation, and most of your last few questions are regarding this.

To help understand the problems with a Classical compilation, I loaded a CD I haven't yet ripped, to see what metadata was shown by the providers. The CD was British Music on Lyrita from Quad, and has 15 pieces from 15 different composers, with various orchestras and conductors: I now recall why I haven't ripped it yet!

In any discussion regarding ripping Classical music, the need to enter the information manually nearly always crops up, and the above mentioned CD proves the point; not one of the 15 composer's name was shown. The Discogs entry, and this is where I have assumed one of your questions to have come from, only shows the (correct) album name, and the name of the piece, no orchestra or conductor. Compilation is also. displayed as No, and the Artist as Various. This may not be how you want it tagged...

The other providers do all slow it as a compilation, with the Title displayed in various ways, with a combination of piece name, orchestra and conductor.

You have got to decide what information is useful for you, and where you want it displayed. In my British Music example, if you want the composers, you will need to enter them, and that is where View Track-Artists, comes into play. As each track has a different Composer, unlike a Symphony, you wouldn't use, To All.

(British Music, is probably the worst case scenario in my collection, and I personally would always tag the composer on a Classical compilation. I may rip this CD this weekend as a learning exercise, and it has a lot if beautiful music - at least good cover art was displayed!)

Does this help with your query from *287?

Regards,

Oggy

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I am hopeful, however, that I can proceed with confidence regarding the issue addressed in post *288 since, for classical music, I plan to do my searching by composer. If you, or someone else can speak to that question it will be a great help, and I will be most appreciative.

Firstly, did you understand post no. 285?

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thanks, Oggy:
I'll study this over and think about it. I appreciate your detailed explanation.
Don

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi mville,

No, I still don't get it; here's why:

In post *285 you wrote:

"If no tracks are selected then Global meta data (ie the same data applying to all tracks) is listed.

"So, the Composer text box is global, if no tracks are selected, but if you select a track(s), then the Composer text box relates to the selected track(s) only."

My understanding has been that if a track is not checked it is effectively bypassed (not written). Therefore, if no tracks are selected then the entire CD is bypassed (not written). How could the Global metadata be listed (as indicated in the first sentence above)? I feel I don't have a firm grasp on this issue and the way it affects a CD containing multiple composers. I'd like to get this thoroughly under my belt before proceeding to rip a lot of CD's

Thanks,
Don

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi mville,

No, I still don't get it; here's why:

In post *285 you wrote:

"If no tracks are selected then Global meta data (ie the same data applying to all tracks) is listed.

"So, the Composer text box is global, if no tracks are selected, but if you select a track(s), then the Composer text box relates to the selected track(s) only."

My understanding has been that if a track is not checked it is effectively bypassed (not written). Therefore, if no tracks are selected then the entire CD is bypassed (not written). How could the Global metadata be listed (as indicated in the first sentence above)? I feel I don't have a firm grasp on this issue and the way it affects a CD containing multiple composers. I'd like to get this thoroughly under my belt before proceeding to rip a lot of CD's

Thanks,
Don

I *think* this is what you are misunderstanding:

1. Ticking the box next to a track means it will be ripped as part of ripping that CD. Any unticked track will not be ripped.
2. But even if you have all tracks ticked (all will be ripped), you may still "select" a particular track related to entering metadata for that track alone. In the "title" column, simply click once on the name of the track. This will "highlight" that track only and allow you to enter tag metadata related to that track (composer, genre, etc.).

[Dat Ei]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

selected != checked


Dat Ei

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

selected != checked


Dat Ei

and to be crystal clear, with "!=" he means NOT EQUAL or NOT THE SAME.

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

No, I still don't get it

As garym and Dat Ei have also tried to help explain, checked is not the same as selected.

You need to read and understand post no. 285 and post no. 288 (paragraphs 1 and 2).

[Dat Ei]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

and to be crystal clear, with "!=" he means NOT EQUAL or NOT THE SAME.

Thanks! You've got it cause you know that 1 + 1 = 10... ;-)


Dat Ei

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Don,

This is the British Music on Lyrita by Quad, compilation CD I mentioned, and this is a way to tag it. As I mentioned previously, none of the metadata providers had the Composer name, so this had to be entered manually. My preference is to display the Composer as the Artist, so using View Track-Artist, the 15 different composers, were entered into both Artist and Composer. I also edited Title (track names), using provided metadata, to my preferences, where I also remove the Orchestra and Conductor from the Title.

As I see this as a compilation album, I set Compilation to Yes.

This took around 10 minutes, and if the Orchestra, Conductor and Soloists are not important, the CD could be ripped at this stage. You mentioned that you have bought a Synology NAS, which I also use. The Synology has a basic player, DS audio, and this is how the British Music on Lyrita by Quad, displays on it:-



Once I had this workable, but basic naming, I returned to the front page of CD Ripper, and highlighting one track at a time, hit Tags, and with Add New Tag, added, Orchestra, Conductor, Soloists for the tracks that had a singer, and a custom tag, Pianist for the Piano Concertos.

With my limited typing skills, this took around 20 minutes, and meant that each track had tags for Orchestra, Conductor and Soloists / Pianist.

This is how those tags show on one track, on the app I use:-



You can see the Orchestra, custom Pianist and Replay Gain [I]Tags[/] - I use ReplayGain. The Conductor tag, is on another page.

Hopefully this helps with the understanding of adding Tags.

There are many ways to skin a cat, and naming and tagging involves many personal choices, particularly with Classical.

Players and apps vary massively, so it makes a lot of sense to try things out on your player, before proceeding too far.

The great thing with Tags, is you can edit, add or delete them very easily at any time in the future, as your requirements, or indeed player changes.

In the above example, you could of course use Various, as the Artist, and have it as a non-compilation, simply with track names, and no tags: the music will play the same.

Oggy

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Thank you, Oggy; it always a pleasure (and instructive) to hear from you. I'll need to study what you sent and learn from it; probably more questions later. One thing that jumped out at me in your last sentence is that your say:

"&*8230;simply with track names, and no tags: the music will play the same."

Aren't Track Names tags? The sentence implies not. Is there something I'm missing here?

1) I have a further "philosophical" question. Slowly I've come to understand (I think) that the structure and operation of network players generally is as follows (a & b below). Perhaps this issue has been specified before -- certainly I think it has been strongly implied &*8211; but I don't recall ever seeing it stated cleanly and directly with clear contrast between what the player is all about vs. what the File Explorer is all about. I hope I understand now and that a) and b) below have it right.

a) The fundamental, underlying structure of the music library is that it is a listing of TRACKS (not CD's). And, a set of tag values is associated with each track. In effect, it is a relational data base of tracks, and the player then slices and dices this data base according to the values of the various different tag "dimensions" (fields) as requested by the user. In other words, a track is the basic irreducible unit around which everything centers. (On the other hand, the structure of the File Explorer is an organization of CD's, which is established by the naming string.)

b) It is the dimension values associated with the individual track listings (and showing in the body of the screen) that are used by the Player to select music, not the values at the top of the screen -- although in some cases these are the same and even linked together. (Furthermore, it is the dimensions themselves &*8211; identifying the text boxes at the top of the screen -- that are employed by the Naming string to format the File Explorer.)

Do I understand this correctly?

If this is true, then since I want to select classical music by composer, it would seem that I must review the composer listed on each and every track in the body of the track listings, and change it manually if needed. Similarly, perhaps, I will need to do the same for the other tag dimensions if I want the player selection to function the way I want.

Is there a simpler way to handle this?