PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

[NoMusicNoLife]

Hi - really niche situation so really appreciate advice of Spoon or Pioneer PureRead drive users. I have dBmpower 16.1.

I have Pioneer BDR-S09J-X drive with PureRead 3 feature.
My understanding is PureRead is designed to accurately rip via their firmware & solid anti-vibration hardware.

My primary goal is to achieve bit by bit perfect rip and time taken is low priority. Error correction is OK as long as my primary goal is met i.e. interpolation/approximated correction is a big no. I want to also make sure PureRead and setting on dBmpower Ripping Method options don't conflict.

Questions:
-Should I choose Ripping Method = BURST or will SECURE still achieve bit by bit accuracy with error recovery?
-No harm in turning ON all AccurateRip options?
-Drive Read Cache - if test/detection shows I can set them, better to set or better not use them?
-I only see Maximum or X40 speed choices; no way of getting something in between for lower RPM rip?

Side comment - unconfirmed but I have a feeling this PureRead drives implement C2 Error Pointers at firmware level. Could be wrong.

Many thanks in advance.

NoMusicNoLife

[Spoon]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

C2 have a detection hole, so no CD drive on the market can self determine if the rip is without error.

Only AccurateRip can do that because the data is verified externally.

[garym]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

Questions:
1. Should I choose Ripping Method = BURST or will SECURE still achieve bit by bit accuracy with error recovery?
2. No harm in turning ON all AccurateRip options?
3. Drive Read Cache - if test/detection shows I can set them, better to set or better not use them?
4. I only see Maximum or X40 speed choices; no way of getting something in between for lower RPM rip?

1. Choose Secure
2. no harm, in fact you want ACCURATERIP options on!
3. not sure on this. I recall that you should either detect or use 1024 as a default that would be larger than any possible cache. I use 1024
4. Be careful with this. It is typically better to let the ripper decide how fast. Ripping at slower speed has been shown to be WORSE in some testing. It is a myth that slowing down ripping speed can increase rip quality.

[NoMusicNoLife]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

C2 have a detection hole, so no CD drive on the market can self determine if the rip is without error.

Only AccurateRip can do that because the data is verified externally.

Thanks for the quick advice on C2 & AccurateRip Spoon!
"...no CD drive on market can self determine if the rip is without error." - really useful info to know. Thanks

[NoMusicNoLife]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights.

Interesting findings...
1. Took some time, but I tested Secure (Ultra Secure OFF) vs Secure (Ultra Secure ON) vs BURST in that order.



This CD was NOT in AccurateRip DB, but due to multiple passes, SECURE took just over 8min and 17min respectively and BURST reached over the same point in 4min AND matched the same CRC. I also know I can achieve AccurateRip using BURST quite consistently so BURST may become my primary choice on this drive.

3. FYI, in above test, SECURE option had "Clear Read Cache with FUA" ON and "8KB Transfers" ON.

4. is also interesting and will try to find out my self as well.

[schmidj]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

Using Burst is dangerous, and defeats the purpose of accuraterip.

With a good CD, both will give the same CRC on a CD not in the database.

If a CD is in the database, and the first rip matches the database, the ripper will stop there, after the first pass on a given track.

If you use burst, and you have a defective CD not in accuraterip database, you'll never know you have a bad rip (until you listen to it and that's kind of two late...) With secure, you'll get several rips, you can configure how many, and they all have to match with the same CRC to get a secure result. Pretty high probability the rip is good, particularly if you rip at varying speed. The only better probability is to compare the CRCs of rips of more than one copy of the CD, which is what Accuraterip does.

I bought dBpoweramp because the previous ripper I used (Winamp) gave me far too many bad rips (mostly from bad CD's, some from fingerprints, even bumping the CD burner while it was ripping) which I'd often find weeks later when finally listening. I've been reripping all that stuff.

Probably 90 percent or more of your CDs will rip perfectly fine in burst. The reason to use secure is to weed out the other ones, at ripping time, so they don't get into your files unknowingly.

If things are taking too long for your taste, consider installing more than one CD reader in your computer (can be via USB, if you use a decent SATA to USB adapter), and multiple instances of the ripper running at the same time. Best to have multiple video screens also. I've had up to 6 instances running simultaneously (three video monitors, two "layers" each, without issue.

[NoMusicNoLife]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

Using Burst is dangerous, and defeats the purpose of accuraterip.

With a good CD, both will give the same CRC on a CD not in the database.

If a CD is in the database, and the first rip matches the database, the ripper will stop there, after the first pass on a given track.

If you use burst, and you have a defective CD not in accuraterip database, you'll never know you have a bad rip (until you listen to it and that's kind of two late...) With secure, you'll get several rips, you can configure how many, and they all have to match with the same CRC to get a secure result. Pretty high probability the rip is good, particularly if you rip at varying speed. The only better probability is to compare the CRCs of rips of more than one copy of the CD, which is what Accuraterip does.

I bought dBpoweramp because the previous ripper I used (Winamp) gave me far too many bad rips (mostly from bad CD's, some from fingerprints, even bumping the CD burner while it was ripping) which I'd often find weeks later when finally listening. I've been reripping all that stuff.

Probably 90 percent or more of your CDs will rip perfectly fine in burst. The reason to use secure is to weed out the other ones, at ripping time, so they don't get into your files unknowingly.

If things are taking too long for your taste, consider installing more than one CD reader in your computer (can be via USB, if you use a decent SATA to USB adapter), and multiple instances of the ripper running at the same time. Best to have multiple video screens also. I've had up to 6 instances running simultaneously (three video monitors, two "layers" each, without issue.

Thanks - It didn't occur to me but makes total sense.
Success with BURST depends on amount of personal CD collections in Accurate DB, drive performance & amount of scratched/bad CDs you have.

Influenced by this, now I'm thinking my Best Practice could be:
Step1. Rip with BURST - Confirm the CD is in Accurate DB and ALL tracks achieve "Accurate".
If this fails
Step2. Rip with SECURE

I can't control how many of my CDs are in Accurate DB but combination of this drive and state of my CD collection so far has been giving very high rate of "Accurate" results, so I'm going to give this a try.
I can fall back to just SECURE once my Step1 failure rates cause more time loss than just sticking with SECURE.

I'd love to hear anyone else's approach that have worked well for them.
Highest quality rip is important but I don't want to spend more time than it's necessary;ripping takes away time to listen/enjoy music.

Cheers and many thanks in advance

NoMusicNoLife

[garym]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

Thanks - It didn't occur to me but makes total sense.
Success with BURST depends on amount of personal CD collections in Accurate DB, drive performance & amount of scratched/bad CDs you have.

Influenced by this, now I'm thinking my Best Practice could be:
Step1. Rip with BURST - Confirm the CD is in Accurate DB and ALL tracks achieve "Accurate".
If this fails
Step2. Rip with SECURE

I can't control how many of my CDs are in Accurate DB but combination of this drive and state of my CD collection so far has been giving very high rate of "Accurate" results, so I'm going to give this a try.
I can fall back to just SECURE once my Step1 failure rates cause more time loss than just sticking with SECURE.

I'd love to hear anyone else's approach that have worked well for them.
Highest quality rip is important but I don't want to spend more time than it's necessary;ripping takes away time to listen/enjoy music.

Cheers and many thanks in advance

NoMusicNoLife

Respectfully this makes no sense. I suspect you misunderstand how the SECURE settings work. It actually does *automatically* exactly what you are trying to do manually. With SECURE ripping, dbpa first does a burst rip and compares it to the accuraterip database. If the disk is in the AR database and your rip matches, you're done. If the disk is not in the AR database *or* your first burst rip doesn't match, then dbpa automatically moves on to multiple passes (with the number you've set in the "ultrasecure" settings in CD ripper).

[NoMusicNoLife]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

Respectfully this makes no sense. I suspect you misunderstand how the SECURE settings work. It actually does *automatically* exactly what you are trying to do manually. With SECURE ripping, dbpa first does a burst rip and compares it to the accuraterip database. If the disk is in the AR database and your rip matches, you're done. If the disk is not in the AR database *or* your first burst rip doesn't match, then dbpa automatically moves on to multiple passes (with the number you've set in the "ultrasecure" settings in CD ripper).

Thanks garym. You're right I didn't know and I'm delighted to find out it's all automated per the way I thought I had to do manually! After 7-8 days and 50+ CDs, I can totally see that's exactly what it does and really does simplify getting the best rip possible. I don't get many at all but when it switches to Ultra Secure Mode, it can take loooong time (I've got 3 remaining tracks taking 30min+), but on the bright side it would be way more painful if it wasn't automated.

Cheers and thanks again.

NoMusicNoLife

[garym]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

Good to hear.

[ripcd]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

Thanks garym. You're right I didn't know and I'm delighted to find out it's all automated per the way I thought I had to do manually! After 7-8 days and 50+ CDs, I can totally see that's exactly what it does and really does simplify getting the best rip possible. I don't get many at all but when it switches to Ultra Secure Mode, it can take loooong time (I've got 3 remaining tracks taking 30min+), but on the bright side it would be way more painful if it wasn't automated.

Cheers and thanks again.

NoMusicNoLife

What do you have your Secure Ripper Options as? This is mine (I changed the number randomly, wondering what would be the smart way to do it).

[ripcd]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

I read somewhere that Pure Read is only guaranteed to work on the software Power2Go which comes in a CD within the box.

[garym]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

On one extreme, this "pure read" function may be marketing nonsense and at the other extreme, a technological breakthrough in drive technology. The good news is that it doesn't matter, because we already have something better that can work with any drive: AccurateRip (AR). The beauty of AR is that one gets concrete evidence that one has a bit perfect rip. Even an AR match of "1" (assuming the person is not comparing to their own prior rip) is incredible evidence of a perfect rip. The odds that your rip is not perfect when it matches one from another person, ripping a different physical copy of the CD, on a different computer, on a different drive, gets the same exact data, is more than just low---growing a second arm during your sleep is more likely!

Bottom line: AR completely transformed the world of bitperfect CD ripping. And one can use any old cheap drives. I have 4 drives for ripping, one came with my computer, one I bought for < $20, and two are just old drives I pulled out of old Dell desktops that were headed to recycling. Nothing fancy about any of them, but multiple drives are good, as sometime a CD won't rip without errors on one drive, but on a different drive can rip without errors.

[garym]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

What do you have your Secure Ripper Options as? This is mine (I changed the number randomly, wondering what would be the smart way to do it).

I'm not home in front of my computer, but your settings look about the same as what I use. I think I allow more potential time for ripping a track than you do. I used the default on number of frames, time allowed, etc. Of course, these settings don't get used if the ripper finds an AccurateRip match after the first pass.

[chippe01]

Re: PureRead drive - Recommended Ripper Options most accurate rip

I always use burst speed on an internal LG Blu-Ray drive. On the occasional inaccurate track, I have tried to rip only the affected track with Secure mode, and it takes FOREVER. I usually just give up and cancel the rip after waiting over 15 minutes with over 90% still remaining. I now have 2 additional external USB drives - a Lite-On DVD writer and an LG Blu-Ray writer. So far I have always gotten an accurate burst rip with one of the USB drives when the internal Blu-Ray drive fails on a track.

This is much easier and less time-wasting than trying secure mode.