Sorting for Multiple Artists

[simbun]

If future-proofing still is important to you, I think you should avoid the non-standard ARTISTS, since that concept requires a single-value ARTIST. I also think you should avoid tagging ARTIST in a non-standard way (like "INXS feat. Ray Charles" or "INXS, Ray Charles"). If you aim for future-proofing & compatibility, the ARTIST field should hold all artists in the standard way, ie with multiple ARTIST fields. (The exception is crappy car- and portable players, which often don't support multiple artists at all. Then you're forced to populate ARTIST with all the artists in a single string.)

I absolutely agree, and have gone to some lengths to let the OP know that it's not the most compatible approach. Nethertheless, it is supported by the big two music servers (Emby & Jellyfin), a number of OpenSubsonic servers and one of the best UPnP servers, so most of the bases are covered.

Personally, I don't wanna mess too much with my tags in the future, so I try to follow the standards for the most basic tags. I definitely wouldn't want to change the concept of my ARTIST fields. Besides you don't know today which players you'll be using tomorrow.

The approach I use, which isn't the Picard default, is to store the artist collaboration (Artist) and both multivalue tags (Artists and Artistsort), so if there ever was a need to revert back to the more traditional setup it would be a relatively painless task - though it would require a full backup.

I think it's a better solution than ARTISTS, but neither is widely supported.

I agree that a better solution would have been to use a non-standard tag for the collaboration, but does any server/player other than MusicBee support DISPLAY ARTIST?

[simbun]

I might have to keep it simple (such as using "INXS" as the Artist and ArtistSort for that one song instead of trying to add the featuring artist) for most of these scenarios. Then I could use something like Picard to add detailed tags in the future?

How does dbpoweramp tag them? I assume as follows:

Artist: INXS; Ray Charles
ArtistSort: INXS; Charles, Ray

If that's the case I'd leave them like that. If you wanted to go down the route of "feat/&" leave that to Picard.

I am also wondering 2 additional questions:

How would you (or most people) handle Purple Rain by Prince? To me, the artist is technically Prince and the Revolution. I will use AlbumArtist as Prince so it goes in the same main artist folder as his other albums. But I noticed that both Spotify and SiriusXM have songs from that album show Prince as the artist (no reference to the Revolution). And does anyone tag this as a Soundtrack (if it is possible to tag soundtracks as soundtracks)?

MusicBrainz attributes the album to:

Albumartist: Prince; The Revolution

releasetype is used to tag it as a Soundtrack (top right of MusicBrainz page).

How do you (or most people) handle CD Singles? Do you add "(CD Single)" to the Album title at the end? Most CD Singles have several songs or remixes, not to mention the song is usually on one or more albums. Example:
INXS - X (Bitter Tears is a track on that album)
INXS - Greatest Hits (Bitter Tears is a track on that album)
INXS - Bitter Tears (CD single with that song plus remixes).

So, would you just call the CD single "Bitter Tears" or "Bitter Tears (CD Single)" or something else?

Use the official release title (Bitter Tears) and tag it with a releasetype of Single.

[garym]

How would you (or most people) handle Purple Rain by Prince? To me, the artist is technically Prince and the Revolution. I will use AlbumArtist as Prince so it goes in the same main artist folder as his other albums. But I noticed that both Spotify and SiriusXM have songs from that album show Prince as the artist (no reference to the Revolution). And does anyone tag this as a Soundtrack (if it is possible to tag soundtracks as soundtracks)

I would use:

ARTIST: Prince and the Revolution
ALBUMARTIST: Prince

I haven't used RELEASETYPE. If starting over I likely would use this tag. If I was going to tag this as a soundtrack, that would be a GENRE tag for me. I use "Pop/Rock" for the genre for that album personally. I started off with a hundred or more genres but later on simplified considerably:

Pop/Rock
Jazz
Country
Bluegrass
Latin
Reggae
Hip Hop
World
Classical
Opera
Soundtrack
Comedy
Spoken Word

p.s. I too would avoid ARTISTS or DISPLAY ARTIST as tag fields. I use Lyron Music Server (LMS), Roon Labs, foobar2000. None of these handle these tags as standards (although all 3 can handle lot of custom tags).

And if you are serious about classical, then there are tag fields that people find very useful (WORK, MOVEMENT, etc.). I don't bother, but I have only 63 classical albums out of 8,779 total albums.

[vilsen]

How would you (or most people) handle Purple Rain by Prince?

I do this:

ALBUM=Purple Rain
ALBUM ARTIST=Prince
ARTIST=Prince

So no "Revolution" since I want to bring together his albums under "Prince" when browsing.

But here's where DISPLAY ARTIST would be great if it was supported by my players!

DISPLAY ARTIST=Prince and the Revolution

[vilsen]

does any server/player other than MusicBee support DISPLAY ARTIST?

I haven't found proper documentation of DISPLAY ARTIST support other than for MusicBee. But I found these interesting links:

https://opensubsonic.netlify.app/docs/responses/child/ DISPLAYARTIST & DISPLAYALBUMARTIST is mentioned

https://opensubsonic.netlify.app/docs/ Symfonium & Lightweight Music Server is mentioned (among others apps)


I don't use Symfonium, but it's my impression that you can set your preferred "Display Artist" based on e.g. ARTIST or ALBUMARTIST etc in the settings, i.e. without any DISPLAYARTIST tag. Is this correct?

And the second link above implies to me that Symfonium even supports the tag DISPLAYARTIST - but I could be wrong. I'm not sure what OpenSubsonic is all about.

[simbun]

So three responses and three different answers :-)

I don't use Symfonium, but it's my impression that you can set your preferred "Display Artist" based on e.g. ARTIST or ALBUMARTIST etc in the settings, i.e. without any DISPLAYARTIST tag. Is this correct?

"displayArtist" is the name of a field in the API containing the full set of album/track artists (depending on the endpoint being called) as a single string. If your files don't contain the full collaboration ("Artist1 feat. Artist2") the server will generate a concatenation from the multivalue tag. I don't believe there is such a thing as a DISPLAY ARTIST tag.

I'm not sure what OpenSubsonic is all about.

OpenSubsonic is an open API that allows communication between compatible servers and clients. I've been using Lightweight Music Server with Symfonium for about 15 months and it delivers nearly (there's always something) everything I could want. If you're on Android and can handle a docker install then you really should try it.

[garym]

I do this:

ALBUM=Purple Rain
ALBUM ARTIST=Prince
ARTIST=Prince

So no "Revolution" since I want to bring together his albums under "Prince" when browsing.

But here's where DISPLAY ARTIST would be great if it was supported by my players!

DISPLAY ARTIST=Prince and the Revolution

My main system (lyrion music server) with ARTIST = Prince and the Revolution and ALBUMARTIST = Prince would show:

When browsing the album would show up under Prince. When playing, the now playing screen would show: Prince and the Revolution.

[vilsen]

Yes if browsing for ALBUMARTIST. No if browsing for ARTIST, then if you would have all of Prince's albums, they would be split up to "Prince", "Prince and the Revolution", "Prince & The New Power Generation" etc.

I don't want that. It's only on the "now playing screen" I want to see the full band name.

[vilsen]

"displayArtist" is the name of a field in the API containing the full set of album/track artists (depending on the endpoint being called) as a single string. If your files don't contain the full collaboration ("Artist1 feat. Artist2") the server will generate a concatenation from the multivalue tag. I don't believe there is such a thing as a DISPLAY ARTIST tag.

Yes that's roughly what I thought the Symfonium setting would do. Seeing that the API already supports a displayArtist field/feature, it would seem a no brainer for Symfonium to support the DISPLAYARTIST tag since it's a simpler approach and implementation. It doesn't seem a long stretch for them to support it - perhaps you being a "power user" could make a request? If we could get the tag standardised it would greatly simplify tagging & setups for many of us, without breaking anything.

[Starrcade]

I thought it was great logging in tonight and seeing so many discussions about this. I think I am learning more.

If future-proofing still is important to you, I think you should avoid the non-standard ARTISTS, since that concept requires a single-value ARTIST. I also think you should avoid tagging ARTIST in a non-standard way (like "INXS feat. Ray Charles" or "INXS, Ray Charles"). If you aim for future-proofing & compatibility, the ARTIST field should hold all artists in the standard way, ie with multiple ARTIST fields. (The exception is crappy car- and portable players, which often don't support multiple artists at all. Then you're forced to populate ARTIST with all the artists in a single string.)

Personally, I don't wanna mess too much with my tags in the future, so I try to follow the standards for the most basic tags. I definitely wouldn't want to change the concept of my ARTIST fields. Besides you don't know today which players you'll be using tomorrow.

I think I misunderstood when I first read that. Can you please explain clarify what the "standard way" is (and "following the standards for most basic tags"), and also what also what you mean by "multiple ARTIST fields?" For example, do you mean I should the Artist and tags that dbpoweramp automatically adds (PerfectMeta) when I insert my CD? Which means for my example, the duet only has the Artist as "INXS" and does not include "Ray Charles?" It doesn't have fields for multiple artists.

How does dbpoweramp tag them? I assume as follows:

Artist: INXS; Ray Charles
ArtistSort: INXS; Charles, Ray

If that's the case I'd leave them like that. If you wanted to go down the route of "feat/&" leave that to Picard.

No. When I insert the CD, the PerfectMeta for AlbumArtist, Artist, and ArtistSort all have "INXS" in the fields (there is no reference to Ray Charles on the track unless I manually edit the Artist and/or ArtistSort fields to add his name). I kept AlbumArtist as "INXS" and then I originally changed the other 2 fields to:

Artist: [FONT=Courier New]INXS feat. Ray Charles[/FONT]
ArtistSort: [FONT=Courier New]INXS; Charles, Ray[/FONT]

The result is I end up with 2 artists (if searching by artist): "INXS feat. Ray Charles" (for the one track), and "INXS" (for all other tracks, except the duet). The dbpoweramp documentation says AlbumArtist is for the main artist to group everything together, and Artist is used for the display in players. But it seems the players create additional artists (such as "INXS feat. Ray Charles" becomes an artist) when browsing by Artist.

Yes if browsing for ALBUMARTIST. No if browsing for ARTIST, then if you would have all of Prince's albums, they would be split up to "Prince", "Prince and the Revolution", "Prince & The New Power Generation" etc.

I don't want that. It's only on the "now playing screen" I want to see the full band name.

I don't want that either. I wanted all players to show the full band name only on the display when the song plays to prevent splitting the artist. I see some recommendations to use an Artist Display tag, but that doesn't exist in dbpoweramp. Plus some posts above indicate many players don't recognize the tag. So I am guessing the display name would default to the Artist tag?

MusicBrainz attributes the album to:

Albumartist: Prince; The Revolution

releasetype is used to tag it as a Soundtrack (top right of MusicBrainz page).

The MusicBrainz page says "Soundtrack + Album." Does it tag as both, so you can find the album in either category?

Use the official release title (Bitter Tears) and tag it with a releasetype of Single.

dbpoweramp doesn't have that tag, so I am guessing I would have to use Picard to add a Release Type and Artist Display. Do most players recognize the Release Type tag? If not, then how do people typically tag CD Singles?

[simbun]

I think I misunderstood when I first read that. Can you please explain clarify what the "standard way" is (and "following the standards for most basic tags"), and also what also what you mean by "multiple ARTIST fields?"

Let's start from the beginning just to make sure you've understood the basics.

Albumartist represents the person(s) or group(s) credited to the album, whereas artist represents those credited to the track.

Each tag may contain multiple artists. In dBpoweramp, a semicolon is used to visually (not stored in the tags) separate artists e.g. "Artist1; Artist2; Artist3". It's important that you separate artists ("Artist1; Artist2" vs "Artist1 feat. Artist2") otherwise your artist lists will become littered with collaborations.

Using The Lockdown Sessions as an example:

Track artists (stored as collaboration)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Elton John & Dua Lipa
Elton John, Young Thug & Nicki Minaj
Surfaces feat. Elton John
Elton John & Charlie Puth
Rina Sawayama & Elton John
Gorillaz feat. Elton John & 6LACK
Elton John & Years & Years
Miley Cyrus feat. WATT, Elton John, Yo‐Yo Ma, Robert Trujillo & Chad Smith
...

Track artists (stored as separate artists)
----------------------------------
6LACK
Brandi Carlile
Chad Smith
Charlie Puth
Dua Lipa
Eddie Vedder
Elton John
...

Given most of your examples seem to involve INXS and Ray Charles let's tag tracks 5-7 of Full Moon, Dirty Hearts.

Track   Albumartist  Artist
5       INXS         INXS
6       INXS         INXS; Ray Charles
7       INXS         INXS; Chrissie Hynde

Depending on the application, "artist" lists may comprise:

• Albumartists (only values from albumartist)
• Track artists (only values from artist)
• All artists (values from albumartist and artist)

When listed, artists will be sorted alphabetically:

Track artists
--------------
Chrissie Hynde
INXS
Ray Charles

If you'd like to change the location of where an artist appears in listings (e.g. lastname, firstname) you can associate a sort tag. The sort values in the associated tag must align e.g.

Artist               Artistsort
INXS; Ray Charles    INXS; Charles, Ray    ✓
INXS; Ray Charles    Charles, Ray; INXS    ✗

Adding the sort tags to tracks 5,6 and 7:

Track   Albumartist  Albumartistsort  Artist                 Artistsort
5       INXS         INXS             INXS                   INXS
6       INXS         INXS             INXS; Ray Charles      INXS; Charles, Ray
7       INXS         INXS             INXS; Chrissie Hynde   INXS; Hynde, Chrissie

Within applications that support the sort tags, artists will now be sorted by their associated sort tag.

Track artists    (Sorted by)
--------------------------------
Ray Charles      Charles, Ray
Chrissie Hynde   Hynde, Chrissie
INXS             INXS

This is the "standard" (most compatible) way to store your tags. Does that make sense?

[garym]

Excellent summary simbun . I'm also a big fan of "learn by doing" and experimentation. Rip a few things using what you've learned about tagging and naming (and again, the folder/file names are a different thing than the TAG information). Then look at the outcome. What do the tags show? How do the albums and tracks show up in a server/player? You'll learn a ton by trial and error.

[simbun]

The MusicBrainz page says "Soundtrack + Album." Does it tag as both, so you can find the album in either category?

That's right, you'd add it as "Album; Soundtrack" (two values in one tag).

dbpoweramp doesn't have that tag, so I am guessing I would have to use Picard to add a Release Type and Artist Display. Do most players recognize the Release Type tag? If not, then how do people typically tag CD Singles?

You can add custom tags in the Tags section at the bottom of the screen; however, Picard would pull it automatically. To ensure that releasetype is always presented in the Tags section add it to "%appdata%\dBpoweramp\DefaultTagEdit.txt".

Releasetype isn't a very well supported tag which is why it's important to choose a good player.

I've tagged this album using the standard multivalue (album)artist tags. Legend, John.zip

[vilsen]

Can you please explain clarify what the "standard way" is

simbun did an excellent job explaining that, I have not much to add except perhaps that when we talk about tags and fields alternately it confuses some people. In practice the two terms usually mean the same thing, e.g. ARTIST or GENRE. But sometimes when people say "field" they refer to the box in the software where you put the values.

(Technically a tag consists of fields but that's not important until you get really serious)

(and "following the standards for most basic tags"), and also what also what you mean by "multiple ARTIST fields?"

By basic tags I meant e.g. ARTIST, ALBUMARTIST, YEAR (and COMPILATION=1 only for compilations). Following the standards for these fields means increased compatibility with players and servers.

In case of multiple artists, add an additional field for the second artist like this:

ARTIST=Peter Gabriel
ARTIST=Kate Bush

Don't use a single value like this: ARTIST=Peter Gabriel feat. Kate Bush

But for crappy players you might be forced to use a single value just because they are crappy. For this reason it's common to have your main library properly tagged and then adjust the tagging for crappy players if they need it.

Also don't put the full date in the YEAR tag. It could work, but often not. There are dedicated fields for full dates if you need them (but not many players support them).

I don't want that either. I wanted all players to show the full band name only on the display when the song plays to prevent splitting the artist. I see some recommendations to use an Artist Display tag, but that doesn't exist in dbpoweramp. Plus some posts above indicate many players don't recognize the tag. So I am guessing the display name would default to the Artist tag?

Usually yes but some players display ALBUMARTIST instead and some players don't support displaying multiple artists.

If you're referring to DISPLAY ARTIST I must apologise if I have confused you. This tag is probably only supported by MusicBee at the moment. The reasons I brought it up was that I think it's a better solution than the previously discussed ARTISTS tag (with an s at the end) and you were already trying out MusicBee.

But reading your posts I get the impression that you might not need either. If you follow standards and tag multiple artists like this:

ARTIST=INXS
ARTIST=Ray Charles

they will be displayed in the "now playing screen" as "INXS; Ray Charles" or similar in a decent player that supports multiple values. It's only if you really need to see "INXS feat. Ray Charles" displayed that you have to take extra measures.