I must be missing something...

[garym]

Re: I must be missing something...

Or if you want to flash the Cash... You could go down this Road... Cocktail audio start at £399...See link...http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/streami...eaming-systems

But the point is he doesn't want to stream. He wants something that is simply connected directly to his stereo that can play, for example, FLAC files, without streaming using a local network. If he wants to stream, it's easy (get a SONOS or a used Squeezebox TOUCH).

[mville]

Re: I must be missing something...

Incorrect, there are.

Name two. Note affordable, commonly used, and easily available. AND not something solely available in the UK, but as industry standards in the marketplace.

See post no. 13 (thank you garym).

Personally, I have a Window 8.1 64-bit PC running foobar2000 thru an audioquest dragonfly dac with a flac audio library.

Total cost of the media player software and dac was GBP50 (USD80). Quality is pretty much the same as playing a CD in my OPPO BDP-83SE, cost GBP800 (USD1250), as both the audioquest dragonfly and the OPPO BDP-83SE have similar dacs from ESS Technology.

Other affordable dacs I considered are available from Cambrdge Audio and HRT (High Resolution Technologies).

[daleyb]

Re: I must be missing something...

Yes.. he wants to "hard wire" it straight to his hifi system - I get that. But with a system like olive he could.The bad news is I think its above the price point he wants to pay...http://www.olive.us/

[garym]

Re: I must be missing something...

Note that these PC options I'm suggesting can be tiny, silent, no fan, etc. Even a standalone box such as the olive is actually a small computer, albeit one designed for one specific use (providing a database of music files and a player for such files with a built in DAC.

Heck, my phone and even home thermostat are small computers!

[Dat Ei]

Re: I must be missing something...

Note that these PC options I'm suggesting can be tiny, silent, no fan, etc.

Exactly Gary. Even a Raspberry will do. No need for streaming or a network (although a netork would make it more comfortable).


Dat Ei

[TenuredAudiophi]

Re: I must be missing something...

Exactly Gary. Even a Raspberry will do. No need for streaming or a network (although a netork would make it more comfortable).

LOL..right. A consumer should not have to laboriously learn Rasperian or Linux and be a programmer just to be able to play 24/96 FLAC thru his home system using a PI kit...

Finally found something that is a start and affordable- in Chinese or not:

http://www.amazon.com/Nobsound%C2%AESupport-Digital-turntable-Lossless-player/dp/B00WW8GH4Q/ref=sr_1_49?ie=UTF8&qid=1435897838&sr=8-49&keywords=flac+dac

[TenuredAudiophi]

Re: I must be missing something...

http://www.amazon.com/Nobsound%C2%AESupport-Digital-turntable-Lossless-player/dp/B00WW8GH4Q/ref=sr_1_49?ie=UTF8&qid=1435897838&sr=8-49&keywords=flac+dac

[garym]

Re: I must be missing something...

LOL..right. A consumer should not have to laboriously learn Rasperian or Linux and be a programmer just to be able to play 24/96 FLAC thru his home system using a PI kit...

I know nothing about linux. I have the same computer skills that allow one to turn on a computer, install a program by clicking on install icon, and use a mouse to navigate (I'm just a basic windows user, word processing, excel, surf the web, do email). When I bought my linux based Vortexbox server (which is a small, fanless computer with no monitor or keyboard), it took me about 5 minutes to be playing music through my stereo system from the time I unpacked the box. Plugin, connect a wire or two, click on a few web-based options (reached from a webbrowser on any computer on your network) and all done! And it plays mp3, AAC, FLAC, etc. 16/44.1 (CD quality) and hi-res like 24/96, 24/192, etc. It did take me a bit longer to copy over about 90,000 files to the vortexbox, but I didn't need to know anything about linux to do this. Just a few clicks of the mouse, then wait for completion of copy.

The vortexbox can be used standalone (no streaming needed) or it can serve music to other networked music players (squeezeboxes, sonos, etc.). I use mine primarily with Squeezeboxes. (and the squeezeboxes likewise took 5 to 10 minutes to setup, following some very basic, no knowledge required instructions.

edit: to be clear, the vortexbox is a fedora linux OS, with certain programs included in the build (LMS, squeezelite, etc.). And the Vortexbox software can be installed on almost any PC (see link). Note that this is not a "program" one installs, but an entire OS, so it will replace whatever is currently on the PC you install it on.

http://vortexbox.org/downloads

http://info.vortexbox.org/tiki-index.php?page=Begin

[TenuredAudiophi]

Re: I must be missing something...

I know nothing about linux. I have the same computer skills that allow one to turn on a computer, install a program by clicking on install icon, and use a mouse to navigate (I'm just a basic windows user, word processing, excel, surf the web, do email). When I bought my linux based Vortexbox server (which is a small, fanless computer with no monitor or keyboard), it took me about 5 minutes to be playing music through my stereo system from the time I unpacked the box. Plugin, connect a wire or two, click on a few web-based options (reached from a webbrowser on any computer on your network) and all done! And it plays mp3, AAC, FLAC, etc. 16/44.1 (CD quality) and hi-res like 24/96, 24/192, etc. It did take me a bit longer to copy over about 90,000 files to the vortexbox, but I didn't need to know anything about linux to do this. Just a few clicks of the mouse, then wait for completion of copy.

The vortexbox can be used standalone (no streaming needed) or it can serve music to other networked music players (squeezeboxes, sonos, etc.). I use mine primarily with Squeezeboxes. (and the squeezeboxes likewise took 5 to 10 minutes to setup, following some very basic, no knowledge required instructions.

edit: to be clear, the vortexbox is a fedora linux OS, with certain programs included in the build (LMS, squeezelite, etc.). And the Vortexbox software can be installed on almost any PC (see link). Note that this is not a "program" one installs, but an entire OS, so it will replace whatever is currently on the PC you install it on.

http://vortexbox.org/downloads

http://info.vortexbox.org/tiki-index.php?page=Begin

Nice written reply but... youre not following the thread. NO pc, no networking, no streaming, no internet. Stand alone hard wired only.

[szhosain]

Re: I must be missing something...

My question exactly! It's perplexed me for ages.....without exception, I can buy the physical CD (which I don't really want) and rip it to lossless flac files for much less than what online sources (esp. HDTracks) charge for just the lossless downloads. Maybe I'm wrong and the whole world really does want nothing more than cheap, lossy music floating around in their iTunes clouds, but I've always felt there could be a robust market for online lossless if the price was merely comparable to buying the CD.

Yeah ... agreed.

Separately something to note. Ripping a CD to higher bit rates or bit depth than the original 44.1kHz / 16 bit stereo is useless, IMHO - the music information simply isn't present ... to be able to "gain" any extra quality.

A program that changes the rate is simply interpolating the data to fit the higher frequency. And the precision is not something improve the music ... it is not possible to change a 16 bit recording to 24 bit without applying some sort of "expansion" like the dBx equipment claimed to do. And that will change the music!

So, what HDTracks claims to do (not something I have verified myself) is to use the original master recordings. With analog tape recordings, they supposedly resample (original studio? somebody else?) using today's high-performance ADC gear. With digital master recordings, they supposedly use the original masters (which were often done at 100k or 256k bits/sec at 20 to 24 bits) and resample to the 96k and 192k recordings.

This could increase their price, but I still agree that if they dropped their typical "album" price from $24.98, they could really capture a larger portion of the market.

Coincidentally, I recently decided to do some listening tests of an album that I will rip at 44.1k / 16 bit to the same one downloaded from HDtracks at 192k /24 bit ... I am just waiting for my Geek Out V2, and high-end headphones to be delivered in the next month or so to do some quiet listening.

My choice for this will be Paul Simon's Graceland - this is a very well-recorded album and I hope to see if the HDtracks 192/24 FLAC version is indeed "better" than the 44.1/16 I can get from the CD. If not (to my old ears), then that will be the last single album I buy from HDtracks.

FWIW, their combo prices tend to be great - for example, yesterday, I bought the Beethoven's symphonies (all nine of them) by Karajan and Berlin Philharmonic for a price (sale today - use coupon HDJuly4th) of $35.68. Heck of a deal!

Z

[szhosain]

Re: I must be missing something...

Forgot to mention Pono ... they have hi-res music available for a lot less than HDtracks. And a player ... which may be connectable to home stereo systems?

Z

[garym]

Re: I must be missing something...

Forgot to mention Pono ... they have hi-res music available for a lot less than HDtracks. And a player ... which may be connectable to home stereo systems?

Z

And Pono tracks are FLAC hi-res files (often 24/192). And one doesn't need a Pono player to play pono files. Any player that will handle hi-res FLAC files will play Pono files just fine (in my own case, I can play Pono files via my Squeezeboxes and Foobar2000).

[garym]

Re: I must be missing something...

Ripping a CD to higher bit rates or bit depth than the original 44.1kHz / 16 bit stereo is useless, IMHO - the music information simply isn't present ... to be able to "gain" any extra quality.

this is not just in your humble opinion (IMHO). This is a FACT. converting a 16/44.1 file from CD to a higher bit rate does nothing but add a bunch of digital zeros. No audio info is added.

This said, a hi-res track *may* be better if it is from a better mastering of the album. The "better" part is not the mere fact that it is hi-res. Regarding old recordings, I'm not an engineer, but my user knowledge understanding is that these can be remastered and this can be done in very high res so that the final consumer product at 24/192 is better than the current CD version, even though the recording was orginally an analog recording from the 1950s. So HDTracks and Pono files *could* be better (but its the mastering NOT the higher bit rate). But I agree and I also know from others that some HDTracks may simply be upsampled 16/44.1 files (thus, with no added value). Buyer beware! Other good reading on 24/192 by the way:

http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

[BrodyBoy]

Re: I must be missing something...

http://www.amazon.com/Nobsound%C2%AE...words=flac+dac

If you want something that inexpensive, your choices are indeed extremely limited. Honestly, at that level, I think adding an iPod dock may be the best way to go. Even though iDevices are designed as "portable" listening devices, there's really no reason you can't use one as a dedicated media storage/player device in your home audio setup.

If you're willing to go to a more reasonable price level ("reasonable" insomuch as you want an "audiophile" piece of equipment), Cocktail Audio makes some very cool-looking little all-on-one devices (ripping, storage, and playback). I'm thinking about setting up an X10 or X12 for my daughter. My one reservation is that I have yet to see its metadata-handling abilities....I've seen many beautiful-looking players, with top-of-the-line electronics, etc., that have software that looks & behaves like Windows circa 1990...if not DOS! If these handsome little players have clunky GUIs or dumb metadata handling, their other intriguing features would all be for naught (for me, anyway).

[szhosain]

Re: I must be missing something...

And Pono tracks are FLAC hi-res files (often 24/192). And one doesn't need a Pono player to play pono files. Any player that will handle hi-res FLAC files will play Pono files just fine (in my own case, I can play Pono files via my Squeezeboxes and Foobar2000).

Good to know that - thanks! I have not bought anything from Pono yet, but may do so for the albums I do not have in CD form already.

Am still waiting for my player and headphones to do the comprehensive comparison.

Z