I must be missing something...

[TenuredAudiophi]

Ive used DB poweramp for decades- versions back when it was truly free and mainly to record and convert all my rare albums to CD. What a waste of time.

Thought Id try the latest version on the trial and when I was ripping some store bought CDs into 7-9 level FLAC and then AIFFs,
I got to thinking: Whats the Point?

The music from the original master version have already been wrecked converting it into MP3 for mass production into CDs. Ripping into FLAC or AIFF from a CD would DO NOTHING for quality since the CD source is already low quality and compressed wayyyy down.

Tried to go thru the FAQs and forum posts here but found nothing and only have a hour to do do.

What am I missing? Whats the point of ripping a CD with the cd ripper into FLAC or AIFF when the source is a crappy CD to begin with?

I got some of my thinking from Neil Young's PONO- he OBVIOUSLY had his masters to convert into 92/24 or 192/24.

I listened to a few tracks I converted into huge FLAC and AIFF files from CD and noticed no difference thru my audiophile grade pre-amps, DAC, amps, and speakers. All Ive got is the same low quality and huge file sizes from the same tracks. Doing CD ripping, seems you can merely rip a CD using any software and merely use a freeware file converter since the quality will not improve.

[mville]

Re: I must be missing something...

The music from the original master version have already been wrecked converting it into MP3 for mass production into CDs.

Please can you explain this statement?

[szhosain]

Re: I must be missing something...

Please can you explain this statement?

Yup. Exactly my question!

CD technology (the original Red Book standard) existed well before any of the lossy audio compression techniques in use today for music players.

Music was sampled into 44.1kHz 16-bit stereo from the original recordings - generally using very high quality ADC's for older analog master tapes as well as for the digital tapes/storage of today.

Yeah, I suppose if you are trying to rip a burned CD from somebody who put MP3 music and files on it - as opposed to manufactured CD - you could have a point.

But, stating that all old and current manufactured CD's are generated from MP3 (or other lossy coding) original material is simply highly unlikely to be correct.

[BrodyBoy]

Re: I must be missing something...

What am I missing?

Some important information.

Whats the point of ripping a CD with the cd ripper into FLAC or AIFF when the source is a crappy CD to begin with?

Well, taking that a bit further, why would you even buy a CD that you consider crappy? There is bad music out there, there are poorly-mastered CDs, and there are certainly releases that are both. Don't buy them. There are plenty of good ones to spend your money on.

I listened to a few tracks I converted into huge FLAC and AIFF files from CD and noticed no difference thru my audiophile grade pre-amps, DAC, amps, and speakers.

Well, yeah....the lossless rips are identical audio data to that on the CD, so you shouldn't "notice a difference." If you do, something's amiss with either your ripped file or your playback equipment.

Doing CD ripping, seems you can merely rip a CD using any software and merely use a freeware file converter since the quality will not improve.

Getting back to what you're missing....you don't seem to understand what lossless ripping is, or its purpose. It's simply creating a digital audio file that's an exact copy of the audio data on a CD. No more, no less. It should sound exactly the same. It cannot "improve" the quality. There are many programs available that can rip CDs. Most dBp users are serious about wanting perfectly accurate copies and high-quality metadata, and feel this program offers the best approach to that end. If you're not so meticulous about these things, something like iTunes or Windows Media Player will work just fine.

Furthermore....

The music from the original master version have already been wrecked converting it into MP3 for mass production into CDs.

You're really missing something on this one. You may wish to read up on audio CD specifications. To summarize: The audio contained in a CD-DA consists of two-channel signed 16-bit Linear PCM sampled at 44,100 Hz, which is not mp3 and has nothing to do with mp3.

[TenuredAudiophi]

Re: I must be missing something...

Some important information.


Well, taking that a bit further, why would you even buy a CD that you consider crappy? There is bad music out there, there are poorly-mastered CDs, and there are certainly releases that are both. Don't buy them. There are plenty of good ones to spend your money on.


Well, yeah....the lossless rips are identical audio data to that on the CD, so you shouldn't "notice a difference." If you do, something's amiss with either your ripped file or your playback equipment.


Getting back to what you're missing....you don't seem to understand what lossless ripping is, or its purpose. It's simply creating a digital audio file that's an exact copy of the audio data on a CD. No more, no less. It should sound exactly the same. It cannot "improve" the quality. There are many programs available that can rip CDs. Most dBp users are serious about wanting perfectly accurate copies and high-quality metadata, and feel this program offers the best approach to that end. If you're not so meticulous about these things, something like iTunes or Windows Media Player will work just fine.

Furthermore....You're really missing something on this one. You may wish to read up on audio CD specifications. To summarize: The audio contained in a CD-DA consists of two-channel signed 16-bit Linear PCM sampled at 44,100 Hz, which is not mp3 and has nothing to do with mp3.

LOL- I had to laugh at most of this as, as expected, and reading thru the forum, most of you turn the basics into a debate.

Man… reading thru the forum posts that are non DB tech related, it's all still a can of non standardized worms. A guy never had to lose his money so fast or work so hard just to get his music collection converted to “lossless”, then merely be able to play it thru his stand alone existing audio gear.

– You should never stream anything
– You should never have to use a PC except for converting CD’s etc to FLAC or AIFF
– You should never have a PC connected to your stand alone audio gear
– You should never us a mobile device for your stand alone audio setup playback
– You should never or never have to have your stand alone audio setup connected to the internet. Even thru a VPN.
– You should never use wi-fi or have to use wi-fi or over-the-air networking for anything related to your stand alone audio setup
-You should never have to use a Blueray DVD deck just to have a playback source for 92/24 or 192/24 FLAC or AIFF hard wired to your stand alone setup

There should be affordable, simple playback devices to merely “hard wire” to your decent audiophile grade stand alone setup for FLAC or AIFF playback. Mine is a great tube amp, pre-amp, and hand made speakers. BUT THERE IS NOT. Note the word affordable, and not something waaay over priced like from Cambridge Audio that still includes the unwanted Bluetooth. Thats why companies like HDTracks.com isnt doing so well for the stand alone audiophile home user. There really is nothing out there on the market now made solely to hard wire to your amp or pre amp. HDtracks.com main market now is for overpriced mobile devices like PONO, Fiio, and the god awful iphone and thru itunes for 92/24 and 192/24 FLAC and AIFF.

So it remains; the only reason to rip your collection into any lossless format for the decent audiophile home collection is STORAGE SPACE ONLY. Ridiculous. Just keep your CD/’s, albums, tapes, etc the way they are and the the space they take up. Because the lossless software and hardware industry worldwide does NOT want you to be easily able to playback anything that is completely stand lone, at home, and hard wired only.

[garym]

Re: I must be missing something...

LOL- I had to laugh at most of this as, as expected, and reading thru the forum, most of you turn the basics into a debate.

Man&*8230; reading thru the forum posts that are non DB tech related, it's all still a can of non standardized worms. A guy never had to lose his money so fast or work so hard just to get his music collection converted to &*8220;lossless&*8221;, then merely be able to play it thru his stand alone existing audio gear.

&*8211; You should never stream anything
&*8211; You should never have to use a PC except for converting CD&*8217;s etc to FLAC or AIFF
&*8211; You should never have a PC connected to your stand alone audio gear
&*8211; You should never us a mobile device for your stand alone audio setup playback
&*8211; You should never or never have to have your stand alone audio setup connected to the internet. Even thru a VPN.
&*8211; You should never use wi-fi or have to use wi-fi or over-the-air networking for anything related to your stand alone audio setup
-You should never have to use a Blueray DVD deck just to have a playback source for 92/24 or 192/24 FLAC or AIFF hard wired to your stand alone setup

There should be affordable, simple playback devices to merely &*8220;hard wire&*8221; to your decent audiophile grade stand alone setup for FLAC or AIFF playback. Mine is a great tube amp, pre-amp, and hand made speakers. BUT THERE IS NOT. Note the word affordable, and not something waaay over priced like from Cambridge Audio that still includes the unwanted Bluetooth. Thats why companies like HDTracks.com isnt doing so well for the stand alone audiophile home user. There really is nothing out there on the market now made solely to hard wire to your amp or pre amp. HDtracks.com main market now is for overpriced mobile devices like PONO, Fiio, and the god awful iphone and thru itunes for 92/24 and 192/24 FLAC and AIFF.

So it remains; the only reason to rip your collection into any lossless format for the decent audiophile home collection is STORAGE SPACE ONLY. Ridiculous. Just keep your CD/&*8217;s, albums, tapes, etc the way they are and the the space they take up. Because the lossless software and hardware industry worldwide does NOT want you to be easily able to playback anything that is completely stand lone, at home, and hard wired only.

I want some of what he's smoking.

[ZPrime]

Re: I must be missing something...

Indeed...
My Denon and Onkyo receivers can both play FLAC natively, as can my (aftermarket) Pioneer car stereo. My factory radio in both a VW and Audi could play OGG out of the box... but that's still lossy.

Personally, I don't listen to the lossless stuff most of the time, for convenience reasons. I have a 64GB USB stick that holds my entire library in AAC/m4a at a ~190kbps VBR, and that is what I keep in the car.

I rip to lossless audio to avoid generational / re-compression loss in the event that new formats appear. I already moved from MP3 to AAC by just re-encoding, which was nice.

Without a really good setup, most people can't ABX lossless vs. high-quality / high bitrate lossy audio anyway... put it in the car or on anything less-than-ideal and it's nearly impossible. The pono is a giant joke.

I would buy all of my music from HDTracks, except their pricing model is completely broken. I can get physical CDs from Amazon much cheaper than medialess downloads from HDTracks. WTF is that about?

[Dat Ei]

Re: I must be missing something...

Because the lossless software and hardware industry worldwide does NOT want you to be easily able to playback anything that is completely stand lone, at home, and hard wired only.

There are a lot of stand alone and hard wired solutions to playback lossless and high resolution audio files: AV Receivers, BR Players, Multimedia PCs (no network or internet required)... A modern DAC would be a good bridge between modern times and devices and your more classical system.


Dat Ei

[mville]

Re: I must be missing something...

There should be affordable, simple playback devices to merely "hard wire" to your decent audiophile grade stand alone setup for FLAC or AIFF playback. Mine is a great tube amp, pre-amp, and hand made speakers. BUT THERE IS NOT.

Incorrect, there are.

So it remains; the only reason to rip your collection into any lossless format for the decent audiophile home collection is STORAGE SPACE ONLY.

I can only agree with your thread title here in that you must be missing something...

[BrodyBoy]

Re: I must be missing something...

I would buy all of my music from HDTracks, except their pricing model is completely broken. I can get physical CDs from Amazon much cheaper than medialess downloads from HDTracks. WTF is that about?

My question exactly! It's perplexed me for ages.....without exception, I can buy the physical CD (which I don't really want) and rip it to lossless flac files for much less than what online sources (esp. HDTracks) charge for just the lossless downloads. Maybe I'm wrong and the whole world really does want nothing more than cheap, lossy music floating around in their iTunes clouds, but I've always felt there could be a robust market for online lossless if the price was merely comparable to buying the CD.

[garym]

Re: I must be missing something...

My question exactly! It's perplexed me for ages.....without exception, I can buy the physical CD (which I don't really want) and rip it to lossless flac files for much less than what online sources (esp. HDTracks) charge for just the lossless downloads. Maybe I'm wrong and the whole world really does want nothing more than cheap, lossy music floating around in their iTunes clouds, but I've always felt there could be a robust market for online lossless if the price was merely comparable to buying the CD.

Agree. I'm always happy to purchase lossless 16/44.1 CD quality files if available at a reasonable price. I typically (rarely) have any interest in the Hi-res versions of files (only if they are the only way to get the different mastering I'm seeking). Heck I can often pick up used CDs of titles I'm interested in for a couple of bucks.

[TenuredAudiophi]

Re: I must be missing something...

[QUOTE=mville;157735]Incorrect, there are.


Name two. Note affordable, commonly used, and easily available. AND not something solely available in the UK, but as industry standards in the marketplace.

[garym]

Re: I must be missing something...

To start, any PC (small form factor with no keyboard/screen, full size, netbook, mac mini, etc.) with USB drive attached or using internal HDD. Run a music player program on the computer (could be foobar2000, winamp, etc.). Connect this setup to a DAC and the DAC then connects to your stereo. No streaming required, no WIFI required (although if such computer is connected to your local network, it then becomes easy to control from some *other* source like a smart phone. You could easily have a setup for a few hundred dollars, depending on the DAC you choose.

Similarly, take any PC (a $50 5 year old garage sale PC is fine), install the free VORTEXBOX software system. Connect a decent USB DAC to the PC and the DAC to your stereo. Vortexbox includes LMS (for managing music library) and Squeezelite (which functions as a player). Sit the thing in a cabinet behind, next to, etc.. your system. Control it all with smart phone, any other computer on your network, or you can have a monitor and keyboard on the PC running Vortexbox if you want. You can do all this very cheap too. (p.s., I have a few Vortexbox systems, all purchased turn key from Small Green Computers (see vortexbox.com). But I could create one much cheaper if that mattered to me. It's just a PC with a specific LINUX operating system and some add on software.

some pics as examples:

http://tinyurl.com/p7s9tm6

http://tinyurl.com/pa5kb7g

[daleyb]

Re: I must be missing something...

Or if you want to flash the Cash... You could go down this Road... Cocktail audio start at £399...See link...http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/streami...eaming-systems

[daleyb]

Re: I must be missing something...

*please note* other stores/ streamers are available..