Single gapless flac file with cue sheet required

[Drummerboy]

I am very new to dBpoweramp and am still learning about the use of cue sheets for gapless playback.

I have been reading the thread "[CUE Sheet Image] Utility Codec" started by Spoon here:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthre...-Utility-Codec. I found this thread from the later thread here:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?32942-Rip-as-one-flac-cue-sheet

As a result, I downloaded the codec suggested by Spoon and then thought I would try to rip a cd as a "Cue single file image". I also set the codec to "Cue single file image" as appeared to be the suggestion by Spoon. This though will obviously create a very large WAV file but my ultimate goal is to create a single FLAC file with no gaps. So, am I doing this correctly? (e.g. should I be ripping to FLAC but encoding as Cue single image?). Presumably, once the single WAV file with cue sheet has been created I then have to just convert it to a single FLAC file, which will have the original cue sheet still in tact?

Please bear with me as I have no experience of cue sheets!

Thanks in anticipation.

[Spoon]

Re: Single gapless flac file with cue sheet required

On the Cue Single Image settings page, you can specify the encoder as FLAC to go direct to flac.

[garym]

Re: Single gapless flac file with cue sheet required

You may already know this, but just in case, you do realize that one does NOT need cue files with FLAC to get perfect gapless playblack. CDs ripped to individual FLAC tracks will play back gapless on most players (certainly, any player that would otherwise deal with CUE files). I have lots of gapless albums ripped to individual tracks.

[Drummerboy]

Re: Single gapless flac file with cue sheet required

You may already know this, but just in case, you do realize that one does NOT need cue files with FLAC to get perfect gapless playblack. CDs ripped to individual FLAC tracks will play back gapless on most players (certainly, any player that would otherwise deal with CUE files). I have lots of gapless albums ripped to individual tracks.

Thanks Gary

Funny, as I did wonder that shortly after I posted the question! What confused me though and what led me to post the question (from various internet searches) was that although FLAC is inherently gapless, it appeared there were only a few players out there which would playback individuals tracks without putting in gaps.

For example, at the moment I am beginning the process of ripping to FLAC for backup purposes, and then I may want ultimately want to play some of these FLAC files/albums on my Sony Xperia Compact Z1 phone through its walkman app, although I am not certain that this can handle gapless. If this is the case then it looks as if I may have to download the Power Amp app for the phone. Longer term I am also looking at purchasing a Linn Streamer for home use (playing ripped FLAC files and for purchased high rez FLAC files) although that will cost more and I have to save up!

So, I just have the following further questions to get this clear in my head please:


1. For FLAC gapless playback, I do not need to rip as a single image? Instead, on a gapless cd (e.g. live album) I can rip to individual FLAC tracks and there should be a player out there which can play them back gapless without the need for a cue sheet?

The thread that I referred to in my OP ( "Rip as one flac + cue sheet" ) seemed to be suggesting that F14Claude wanted a cue sheet with FLAC file, but maybe I misunderstood why he wanted this, or maybe things have moved on since then?

2. Spoon replied by saying I can set the encoder settings to FLAC which I understand. I assumed he also means that I set the "rip to" box to say "Single Cue Image" or does he mean I should also set this to say "FLAC" (i.e. individual files for each track)? If my assumption in question 1 above is correct and I do not need a cue sheet to play back FLAC without gaps, then I would not need to rip to a Single Cue Image? And so ripping and encoding to Single Cue Image is only necessary if I want to rip to WAV and use a cue sheet?

3. Presumably, say for example I rip a CD into individual FLAC files, there is always scope to convert back to individual WAV files or a single WAV file with cue sheet, both of which should playback gapless? These WAV files/file could be burned to a CD that could be played in a car stereo or on a standard home CD player.


Many thanks

[garym]

Re: Single gapless flac file with cue sheet required

1. For FLAC gapless playback, I do not need to rip as a single image? Instead, on a gapless cd (e.g. live album) I can rip to individual FLAC tracks and there should be a player out there which can play them back gapless without the need for a cue sheet?

The thread that I referred to in my OP ( "Rip as one flac + cue sheet" ) seemed to be suggesting that F14Claude wanted a cue sheet with FLAC file, but maybe I misunderstood why he wanted this, or maybe things have moved on since then?

2. Spoon replied by saying I can set the encoder settings to FLAC which I understand. I assumed he also means that I set the "rip to" box to say "Single Cue Image" or does he mean I should also set this to say "FLAC" (i.e. individual files for each track)? If my assumption in question 1 above is correct and I do not need a cue sheet to play back FLAC without gaps, then I would not need to rip to a Single Cue Image? And so ripping and encoding to Single Cue Image is only necessary if I want to rip to WAV and use a cue sheet?

3. Presumably, say for example I rip a CD into individual FLAC files, there is always scope to convert back to individual WAV files or a single WAV file with cue sheet, both of which should playback gapless? These WAV files/file could be burned to a CD that could be played in a car stereo or on a standard home CD player.

1. yes. I have many (live cds, dark side of the mood, abbey road, etc.). All play perfectly gapless (ripped as individual tracks) in computer players such as Foobar2000, winamp, and many others. I really think you're barking up the wrong tree with your interest in CUE SHEETs. This approach (and use of WAV) was useful maybe 10 or 15 years ago when we had crappy mp3 codecs, players that couldn't do gapless, etc. But that's all ancient history now.

2. I don't rip using CUE SHEETs so I have no idea about any of this. I've ripped over 5,000 CDs to FLAC and never had the need to use CUE sheets. (and why would you want to use WAV. A FLAC file is lossless, just like a WAV, but takes up less space. And more importantly, FLAC files use standard tagging that most (all?) players read. Not so with WAV. And FLAC files contain selfchecking CRC within the files (WAV do not). So it is trivial to check the integrity of all your FLAC files after, say, copying them to a new HDD. Not so with WAV files. (and don't fall for some of the nonsense on the internet that WAV "sounds" different than FLAC. Unless you have a really old system (decades) and or a broken player, this is certainly not true.

3. Yes, the individual FLAC files could be burned to a CD (which is PCM I think rather than WAV), but in any case, yes, a burned CD from FLAC files would be gapless. (Of course after ripping my CDs I have *never* felt the need to use them again other than as digital files. I use foobar2000 as my windows computer player. I use Squeezebox network music players (and logitech media server) for serving the FLaC files to my main stereo at home and other home locations (bedrooms, kitchen, etc.), and in the car I have simply play via my iphone (bluetooth or a cable). For my portables, I do use an mp3 mirror of my FLAC files, which I easily created with a few mouse clicks using dbpa file converter.

You seem to be moving in the direction of DLNA/upnp network music player. Some are OK in terms of how they work (gapless, etc.) and some are terrible. Not clear that they all would handle cue sheets even if you wanted those. Depends on the control and the renderer and the player.Illustrate has ASSET which people seem to like. I prefer my squeezeboxes and logitech media server as they are much more advanced in the handling of music, tagging, etc. as a player over DLNA players. But many are happy with DLNA, particulary those that use Illustrate's ASSET it seems. But this is all irrelevant for now because no matter what you use as a playback system, you'll want securely ripped FLAC files with good metadata (tagging) and artwork. and dbpa can do that for you.

[Drummerboy]

Re: Single gapless flac file with cue sheet required

1. yes. I have many (live cds, dark side of the mood, abbey road, etc.). All play perfectly gapless (ripped as individual tracks) in computer players such as Foobar2000, winamp, and many others. I really think you're barking up the wrong tree with your interest in CUE SHEETs. This approach (and use of WAV) was useful maybe 10 or 15 years ago when we had crappy mp3 codecs, players that couldn't do gapless, etc. But that's all ancient history now.

2. I don't rip using CUE SHEETs so I have no idea about any of this. I've ripped over 5,000 CDs to FLAC and never had the need to use CUE sheets. (and why would you want to use WAV. A FLAC file is lossless, just like a WAV, but takes up less space. And more importantly, FLAC files use standard tagging that most (all?) players read. Not so with WAV. And FLAC files contain selfchecking CRC within the files (WAV do not). So it is trivial to check the integrity of all your FLAC files after, say, copying them to a new HDD. Not so with WAV files. (and don't fall for some of the nonsense on the internet that WAV "sounds" different than FLAC. Unless you have a really old system (decades) and or a broken player, this is certainly not true.

3. Yes, the individual FLAC files could be burned to a CD (which is PCM I think rather than WAV), but in any case, yes, a burned CD from FLAC files would be gapless. (Of course after ripping my CDs I have *never* felt the need to use them again other than as digital files. I use foobar2000 as my windows computer player. I use Squeezebox network music players (and logitech media server) for serving the FLaC files to my main stereo at home and other home locations (bedrooms, kitchen, etc.), and in the car I have simply play via my iphone (bluetooth or a cable). For my portables, I do use an mp3 mirror of my FLAC files, which I easily created with a few mouse clicks using dbpa file converter.

You seem to be moving in the direction of DLNA/upnp network music player. Some are OK in terms of how they work (gapless, etc.) and some are terrible. Not clear that they all would handle cue sheets even if you wanted those. Depends on the control and the renderer and the player.Illustrate has ASSET which people seem to like. I prefer my squeezeboxes and logitech media server as they are much more advanced in the handling of music, tagging, etc. as a player over DLNA players. But many are happy with DLNA, particulary those that use Illustrate's ASSET it seems. But this is all irrelevant for now because no matter what you use as a playback system, you'll want securely ripped FLAC files with good metadata (tagging) and artwork. and dbpa can do that for you.

Hi Gary

Just to say many thanks for another really useful reply and it has clarified the situation regarding cue sheets. I had obviously become confused by other past threads, but rest assured I do agree with you that FLAC is the way to go and I realise fully that there is no audible degradation in quality from WAV. I couldn't agree more with a lot of what you have said.

I see your point about only wanting to use the FLAC files as digital files once created. However, as I am considering long term moving away from CD's and purchasing high resolution FLAC files, then I would need to be able to play these in the car. Unfortunately at the moment my 2006 Mazda 6 does not have bluetooth compatibility nor does it play anything other than audio cd's.

I will look into the Logitech/Squeezebox set up but ultimately I want the best quality and the Linn DS models, although very expensive, do appear to be excellent and I am pretty sure they would play gapless. I have had one demo but need to do more research and will check how they handle tagging too. I think they have a DAC type component which results in a more analogue sound and warmth which is similar to vinyl. I cannot imagine that the Logitech/Squeezebox (especially at the much lower price) can deliver comparable quality but I may be wrong. I still need to challenge this theory and speak to the dealer in the UK who sells the Linn DS range. I am still getting my head around it all.

Basically I am considering a set up whereby I have a NAS and a media renderer such as one of the Linn DS models. See here

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/524-complete-guide-hifi-upnp-dlna-network-audio/

[garym]

Re: Single gapless flac file with cue sheet required

Yes, Linn is good stuff. Although depending on DLNA UPNP server, controller setup I've read of issues with gapless. But best to test for yourself. And I think you are "wrong" re squeezebox touch. It delivers a bit perfect signal into any DAC you choose via S/pdif or optical or usb. This could be a linn DAC or a DAC that costs $150,000. The analog out of the touch is dependent on quality of DAC and that is up to you. In one of my setups I have a Touch feeding a BENCHMARK DAC I. This is the same price range as Linn products (not that price and quality are necessarily correlated). In my other setup I use a squeezebox Transporter. When released it was about $2,000. It is essentially a network music player in same box as a good DAC, etc. it also has balanced analog outs. EDIT: and squeezebox stuff is discontinued anyhow. Would need to buy used. I only mentioned as an example.

and be careful with info from computer audiophile.com (or about any stereophile magazine). I could write a book on the crazy audiophool nonsense reported there as if it is fact. A lot of ignorance of the science and engineering aspects of dgital music. They attempt to carry analog sound transmission issues over into digital (incorrectly). You should start reading the forums at hydrogenaud.io to get fact and science based info on digital sound reproduction. Some serious experts post there that are not in the pockets of equipment advertisers!