Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

[producer_ben]

Hi,

I have a fully licensed version of Asset running on a Synology NAS.

This is brand new (just received toady). I was previously using a Marantz NA-6005 and there was no problem, I was really happy.

However Using with the Denon it is so slow and unresponsive. Most of the time, folder contents shows as "Empty" then sometimes it will show contents. The folder tree is completly ignored and "does its own thing".

The Denon finds it hard to even locate the server at times. One in 4 access times, it finds the server.

To enusre it isn't a network issue, I checked the firewall on the NAS and Router. I even gave a fixed IP to save any possible conflicts and made the Denn "out of range" of the DHCP clients too.

None of this resolved anything. I tried Synology's built in media server and not a single issue. It's fast, responsive, folder contents displayed. Everything is perfect.

Any ideas anyone? This is really p*ssing me off.

Thanks

[producer_ben]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

Ok, a brief update.

I removed and reinstalled Asset. Did the setup all over again and access is now faster. However, the folder structure is still not as I have defined and pretty much "whatever it wants"

[Spoon]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

Do you not see Assets browse tree? if not he player (denon) is creating its own tree, from doing searches (such as first it will search for all artists, then all albums).

[producer_ben]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

Do you not see Assets browse tree? if not he player (denon) is creating its own tree, from doing searches (such as first it will search for all artists, then all albums).

Hi Spoon, thanks for replying

There is an asset tree on the Denon, but it isn't what I specified within Asset.

To prove it isn't a Denon "quirk", I disabled Asset and ran Synology's own Media Server aspp and everything was displayed and organised as requested and expected.

If it's of any use, in Asset the Denon is recognised as the following :

LINUX UPnP/1.0 Denon-Heos/165840
LINUX UPnP/1.0 Denon-Heos/184344

The HEOS is part of a Universal Control app a lot of companies are icorporating into HiFi separates now (so I understand), I don't use HEOS, but it is built in.

It isn't HEOS causing the issue I don't believe as there are 2 control points recognised for the Denon. The Heos (for the app) and it's own hardware one.

[producer_ben]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

..it might also be worth adding that 50% of the time, browsing any folder or selecting a folder is ver slow and "laggy!.
Then to make things a bit more frustrating, the folder will show no contents, even though I know it has contents to the point that Synology's media server sees it and Media Monkey sees them and bubble upnp sees them.

Please note that MM and bubble are set up for control point use only, not as servers

I really hope I get to the bottom of this.

It's hard to work out if its UE (me) or a possible "bug" that I've managed to find

[Spoon]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

Which version of Asset do you have?

How many audio tracks do you have?

What Synology model do you have?

[producer_ben]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

Hi Spoon,

Asset Version : Asset UPnP R7.3 Synology
Track Amount : 42,736 Files (so far)
Synology Nas : DS718+ running DSM version DSM 7.0.1-42218 with 6gb RAM

[producer_ben]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

And while I'm here, I thought I'd let you know there's definately something "strange" going on with how artists on lbums that are classed as "Various Artists" are displayed. No matter if "[artist] - [title] for Various Artist album tracks" is checked or unchecked, the artist of the song is ALWAYS "Various Artists"

So lets say for example the album was : Rock Anthems and the Album Artist is Various Artits. The Song Money For Nothing is by Dire Straits.

If I choose that track on Asset, on my streamer it displays "Money For Nothing - Various Artits"

So I looked aroind online and saw a thread from a while back in asset's forum where someone has the same issue : https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthr...ilation-Albums
( they're using ALAC files on a NAIM server. I'm using FLAC on a Synology DS718+ NAS).

I generally use MP3 tagger for ensuring ID3 tags are present and correct, but I was prepared to try other things to find where the problem may lay. So I downloaded Music Brainz "Picared".
All the tags look ok, with "Various Artist" albums listed as "various artist" under "Album Artist" and the band or singer under "Artist". As an experiment, I even added the song artist into the "performer" tag (no harm in trying if it works).

So, I saved that change and exited Picard. I deleted the Asset database then rescanned again (just to ensure there was no confusion with old and new tags).

Still having the usual issues with asset server you're aware of, in time I got to the file I altered : Album Name : Rock Anthems Track Title : Money For Nothing Artist : Dire Straits Album Artist : Various Artists

I played it on my streamer and I found the correct album name where it should be, I found the track, I hit "play" then the scrolling text revealed "Money For Nothing - Various Artists".

I have Bubble UPnP on my phone as a control point, so I thought I'd try finding the track and playing from there. It was interesting to note that everything shoed up properly : "Money For Noting - Dire Straits"

I then chose another compilation album that I hadn't adjusted in Picard. That showed up correctly too. Then to confirm, I stopped the Asset Service, then launched Synology's Media Server.

Again everything was 100% ok.

I just thought I'd inform you of this as I'm sure others may come to you about this. It maybe an issue with certain setups, but for Naim and Denon to have this problem with Asset would leave me to believe there's something strange going on behind the scenes in Asset.

[Spoon]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

Asset unlike simple upnp servers give out:

album artist
artist

now badly programmed players will use the album artist when showing a track playing, where as they should use the artist and only show album artist when browsing albums. Should we stop all the better programmed players working as should to accommodate the lowest common denominator?

See:

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?46857-Various-Artists-Compilation-album-display-artist-name-with-Heos

At least Cambridge fixed their software.

[producer_ben]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

Asset unlike simple upnp servers give out:

album artist
artist

now badly programmed players will use the album artist when showing a track playing, where as they should use the artist and only show album artist when browsing albums. Should we stop all the better programmed players working as should to accommodate the lowest common denominator?

See:

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?46857-Various-Artists-Compilation-album-display-artist-name-with-Heos

At least Cambridge fixed their software.

Hi Spoon, thank you again for your reply.

I'm hoping there isn't a "double response" to your reply as after typing my initial response it didnt appear in the thread ( so my appologies if you're seeing the same thing twice).

I do feel that your response is unfair as it "blames" "a badly programmed renderer" and you refer me to a HEOS thread. HEOS isn't a renderer OS, HEOS is the eqivilent of Yamaha's MusicCast in that it aims to control many HEOS conponants in the convenience of one app.

If it was a poorly programed renderer (streamer) I would accept it and continue to contact the manufacturer, however after my extensive testing, only Asset has my original issue of "slow and laggy" perofrmance and "not display correct folder tree" and even "showning emty folders", plus only Asset has the issue of providing Album Artist for all files sent to the renderer, rather than Artist.

As I'm sure you're aware, the server itself (being my Synology NAS) stores the files, the server software (Asset for exaple) indexs the files on the server and distributes them to renderers, a control point is exactly that, it's a "middle man" between the server package and the renderer, and it tells the server package what "song" or "songs" you want played in what order and where you want the server package to send them to. Meanwhile the renderer (my Denon for example) will then "play" the audio file distibuted via ther server package and "Display" the names according to the indexed information according to how the server package has interpreted it.

All the DLNA/UPnP complient hardware from Tv's and radios to dedicated "streamsrs" behave in the same manner when Asset is used as a server package. They also behave in the same way when different control points are used and even when using their "physical" hardware controls"

If a different server pacakage is used be it Minim, Synology's own Media Server package and Even Media Monkey, all the renderer's display the correct information. That being Artist instead of Album Artist.
I have tried the same control points on each of the server packages (Kazoo, Bubble UPnP and Media Monkey) as well as their dedicated hardware controls and they ALL display the correct information and behave in a "speedy" manner without freezing, lagging, showing empty folders, or displaying album artist instead of track artist.

For you to say "now badly programmed players will use the album artist when showing a track playing" is actually not true as it is the media server that reads and indexes the ID3 tags and sends that information with the media file to a renderer (streamer). If that information isn't correct, then the renderer will display incorrect information. A control point (such as HEOS" makes no difference in as far as sending ID3 tag information goes and it makes not difference to "folder structure". This is all done by the server package.

Now you have created this server package and I commend you for it. I realise it's not an easy task and must've taken months, maybe years to do, however there are CLEARLY issues and you're failing to acknowledge them and just blaming renderer programming, when in actual fact is is Server Package programming that is at fault.

I can see that we're not going to make any progress all the time you are refusing to acknowledge that there is an indexing problem with Asset. Of course, it maybe a unique isse with some brands of NAS, but as I say, after lengthy investegation IT IS Asset that is the root of the cause. This is why I have sent you a PM to arrange a refund.

I wish you the best of luck with Asset.

[Spoon]

Re: Slow and glitchy with Denon DNP-800E

A upnp server does not send the information specific for track playing display, it sends over the information which is a block of information containing everything needed during the browse.

I also have an idea why asset is slow on the denon, it is browsing all of assets trees, some players do this, however because of the dynamic browse element in asset, assets trees are effectively infinite&*8230;players should not attempt to browse all the trees unless the user tries to, some players do(lg tvs do also, I suspect they both use the same code).