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Thread: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

  1. #1

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    Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    The tag for Catalogue numbers and barcode in CD Ripper does seem to work across different apps. Other apps show these files as empty/blank.

    CD Ripper uses - Catalog *(hash)
    MusicBrainz uses - Catalogue Number
    Audio Ranger uses - Catalogue Number
    Swinsain uses - Catalogue Number
    iTunes - doesn't recognise either. (stupid program stuck in the past, but works so well as a media player / organiser) Needs feature set brought into the 2020s.


    CD Riper uses - UPC
    MusicBrainz uses - Barcode
    Audio Ranger - Barcode
    Swinsain - Barcode
    iTunes - doesn't recognise either. (stupid program stuck in the past, but works so well as a media player / organiser) Needs feature set brought into the 2020s.

    Almost all other fields are the same across different apps.

    How do I get Cd Ripper to save these tags as Catalogue Number & Barcode, instead of Catalog *(hash) & UPC?

    It's annoying that I just discovered this after having already ripped over 700 albums. Now having to go back and edit all the metadata.

  2. #2
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by miggs View Post
    How do I get Cd Ripper to save these tags as Catalogue Number & Barcode, instead of Catalog *(hash) & UPC?
    I use the 'ID Tag Processing' DSP to map the Artist Sort tag to ArtistSort so you could likely do something similar, depending on what format you're writing to (I'm using FLAC).

  3. #3

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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    I tried the 'ID Tag Processing' DSP. That works, partly. If I rip to FLAC. It works for barcode, but not for Catalog Number. For Apple Lossless neither works.
    I would prefer to use Apple Lossless, As I'm in an Apple household.

    I can't seem to find a list of what tags are compatible with ALAC. Is there a list somewhere.

    It shouldn't be this hard to make a files tags readable across different media programs.

  4. #4
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Generally speaking if iTunes cannot edit the tag in question then it does not exist for apple lossless.

  5. #5
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by miggs View Post
    I tried the 'ID Tag Processing' DSP. That works, partly. If I rip to FLAC. It works for barcode, but not for Catalog Number. For Apple Lossless neither works.
    I would prefer to use Apple Lossless, As I'm in an Apple household.

    I can't seem to find a list of what tags are compatible with ALAC. Is there a list somewhere.

    It shouldn't be this hard to make a files tags readable across different media programs.
    The problem isn't writing the tags to the file. Most tagging programs can write just about any field you wish to a m4a file.

    It has more to do with the player. iTunes and the newer Apple Music apps have limited fields that they can show. Using the Get Info in iTunes will bring up a window that shows you what tags are available in iTunes. If you want to see your specific tag data using iTunes, you will have to work with one of those.

  6. #6
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    I would think about moving away from Apple/iTunes.
    I help someone thats locked into Apple and its the only place I find trouble with metadata & other ripping issues.
    FLAC is trouble free & IMO the best easiest and most universal codec.

  7. #7
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by miggs View Post
    I tried the 'ID Tag Processing' DSP. That works, partly. If I rip to FLAC. It works for barcode, but not for Catalog Number.
    In my FLAC files I use CATALOGNUMBER and BARCODE. If I convert them to ALAC using dbPoweramp Music Converter they're output to com.apple.iTunes:CATALOGNUMBER and com.apple.iTunes:BARCODE, which I believe is correct according to the MusicBrainz Picard tag mapping documentation.


    Quote Originally Posted by miggs View Post
    For Apple Lossless neither works.
    I would prefer to use Apple Lossless, As I'm in an Apple household.

    I can't seem to find a list of what tags are compatible with ALAC. Is there a list somewhere.
    If you truly want to understand what's going on you need to look at the raw data to see what's being stored.

    Code:
    $ hexdump -C --length 4000 01.01.m4a
    00002b80 00 00 00 63 6f 6d 2e 61 70 70 6c 65 2e 69 54 75 |...com.apple.iTu|
    00002b90 6e 65 73 00 00 00 13 6e 61 6d 65 00 00 00 00 42 |nes....name....B|
    00002ba0 41 52 43 4f 44 45 00 00 00 1c 64 61 74 61 00 00 |ARCODE....data..|
    00002bb0 00 01 00 00 00 00 30 37 35 36 37 38 32 33 31 30 |......0756782310|
    00002bc0 32 35 00 00 00 54 2d 2d 2d 2d 00 00 00 1c 6d 65 |25...T----....me|
    ...
    00002bd0 61 6e 00 00 00 00 63 6f 6d 2e 61 70 70 6c 65 2e |an....com.apple.|
    00002be0 69 54 75 6e 65 73 00 00 00 19 6e 61 6d 65 00 00 |iTunes....name..|
    00002bf0 00 00 43 41 54 41 4c 4f 47 4e 55 4d 42 45 52 00 |..CATALOGNUMBER.|
    00002c00 00 00 17 64 61 74 61 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 38 |...data........8|
    00002c10 32 33 31 30 2d 32 00 00 00 53 2d 2d 2d 2d 00 00 |2310-2...S----..|

    The ascii on the right of that section is what you're looking for. It'll tell you exactly what's being stored and in what "tag".
    You may need to change the 4000 in the command as it doesn't look like the tags are stored at the very beginning of the file for MPEG-4.

  8. #8
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike-B View Post
    I would think about moving away from Apple/iTunes.
    I help someone thats locked into Apple and its the only place I find trouble with metadata & other ripping issues.
    FLAC is trouble free & IMO the best easiest and most universal codec.
    I have been using Apple products including iTunes, AppleTV, and iOS devices for almost as long as they have been available. Apple has purposely avoided FLAC support for some reason they have yet to disclose. Their lossless ALAC format is as close as it gets, and other than the checksum option essentially performs as well. There are no ripping or metadata issues if you use any of the reputable products like dbPoweramp, mp3tag, etc. And most Windows and Android apps now support the ALAC format. So for those that have a need for Apple compatibility this is the only way to go.

    If you are not bound to the Apple environment, FLAC is absolutely more universally supported and has the benefit of the Checksum field.

    Feel free to choose what works best for you.

  9. #9

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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Maybe if I say what I am aiming for. That would help to understand how to get to my endgame.

    When looking for music to listen to, I prefer looking at my shelves full of over 2000 CDs, instead of endlessly scrolling on iTunes. When Ive chosen a CD to listen to, I&*8217;m hoping to search for the files by just scanning the barcode.

    So the task is&*8230;
    To find a media player that can read and display the barcode tag that can be embedded in ALAC & FLAC files. I prefer ALAC.

    Also work out what tag to use, Barcode or UPC. As each media player reads different. There doesn't seem to be a set standard.

    So instead of searching by artist or titles, I want to search by barcode. I have a handheld scanner for scanning the barcode into the search field of the media player.

    Thanks Everyone.

  10. #10
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by miggs View Post
    So instead of searching by artist or titles, I want to search by barcode. I have a handheld scanner for scanning the barcode into the search field of the media player.
    I use foobar2000 on Windows (there is a mac version) and it allows me to search by barcode (com.apple.iTunes:BARCODE) in ALAC files. I'm afraid I can't help with other app suggestions.

    Can you add barcode using Swinsian or AudioRanger? If you can, add a barcode to a test file then use the hexdump command to see what tag it expects the barcode to be in - although I'd be surprised if it's not com.apple.iTunes:BARCODE.

    Ignore the labels that each app uses (Catalog *(hash) vs Catalogue Number), it has no bearing on how the data is stored.
    Last edited by simbun; 02-18-2024 at 05:43 AM.

  11. #11
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    I just ripped a track using the Windows version, and whilst dBpoweramp didn't pull through a UPC I did add one in the interface, but they're being output to tags that don't match the MusicBrainz Picard mapping I linked to previously.

    Code:
    Catalog *(hash): com.apple.iTunes.Catalog *(hash)
    UPC:             com.apple.iTunes.UPC
    If we assume the Picard mapping is correct and I use 'ID Tag processing' to map 'Catalog *(hash)' to 'CATALOGNUMBER' then it's mapped correcly to 'com.apple.iTunes:CATALOGNUMBER'. Mapping UPC to BARCODE also works, assuming UPC gets populated, otherwise just adding the BARCODE tag for manual entry should work. This assumes the apps you're trying to use agree with the Picard mapping of course.

    The tagging standards are a bit of a mess generally. The best thing to do is to pick your perfect player and work backwards.

  12. #12
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by simbun View Post
    The tagging standards are a bit of a mess generally. The best thing to do is to pick your perfect player and work backwards.
    I agree.

    The problem is, is that there are no universal tagging standards in any lossless format. ID3 (for mp3) was as close to a standard that I have seen, but that format is becoming less and less relevant.

  13. #13

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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    So, from what I can work out. The below fields work nearly universally.

    Track Name
    Album Name
    Artist Name
    Album Artist
    Track Number
    Disc Number
    Year
    Genre
    Compilation Tag

    Are there any others?
    Last edited by miggs; 02-23-2024 at 05:08 AM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Quote Originally Posted by miggs View Post
    So, from what I can work out. The below fields work nearly universally.

    Track Name
    Album Name
    Artist Name
    Album Artist
    Track Number
    Disc Number
    Year
    Genre
    Compilation Tag

    Are there any others?
    I would classify those as being the absolute minimum set of tags you'd want to use, but their level of support in apps and servers is more complicated than that, and it can vary by file format:
    • some accept multivalue albumartist tags but most don't.
    • some don't even accept multivalue artist or genre tags e.g. BluOS and Sonos last time I checked.


    Given this set doesn't include BARCODE (and that's what you need), how does it help you?

  15. #15

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    Re: Metadata tags in CD Ripper not universally compatible.

    Yes, that's correct. Barcode is where it started. Ideally still trying to find a way to rip & tag with BARCODE included. I have just installed 10 media players, trying to experiment with both ALAC & FLAC. Some tagged with UPC, sone with BARCODE. I've ripped 4 ways. FLAC with UPC. FLAC with BARCODE. ALAC with UPC. ALAC with BARCODE.

    I am just discovering that my understanding is full of flawed information. So I am taking it back to the beginning. Resetting what I think I know and understand.

    MediaPlayers I'm testing...
    AudioRanger
    Audirvana
    beaTunes
    Doppler
    DeaDBeeF
    foobar2000
    Apple Music / iTunes
    Kodi
    Musique
    Plex
    Swinsian
    ...plus a few others shortly.

    Also what devices I'm using. AppleTV, MacMini, or Demon AVR UPnP.

    I currently use Apple Music or PLEX. Depending on my mood. Lol. Very basic setup.
    Last edited by miggs; 02-24-2024 at 03:09 AM.

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