Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

[mathmat]

Hi. I have a few questions I was hoping could be clarified for me.

1) If I check a previously ripped CD with PerfectTUNES, does it go into the AccurateRip database? Also, if I check that same CD rip with CUETools does that go into the AccurateRip database?


2) I ripped 2 versions of The Wall that were released in different years with different packaging, different barcodes, etc. I'll stick to CD2 in each of the 2 versions I ripped (The CD with Comfortably Numb on it.)

Now when I checked them with PefectTUNES I got the same AccurateRip DiscID for both discs, the ARv2 CRCs were identical for all 13 tracks, and I got the same confidence level for corresponding tracks. The only difference was the offsets for the 2 rips were different. My question is does that mean the original CDs were identical, even though they had different barcodes, packaging, etc?


3) Furthermore, let's say I have 2 unknown rips and I check them with PerfectTUNES and I get the same results I mentioned (AccurateRip DiscIDs match, ARv2 CRCs all match for all tracks, confidence matches, but pressing offset is different. Does that mean I have 2 copies of an identical disc, even though (yypothetically speaking) I don't know what those CDs are? And if so, is this a way of checking if 2 unknown CD rips are from the same disc? This is just a theoretical question to help understand how AccurateRip works.


4) Here's where my real problem comes in. Getting back to my original 2 The Wall rips (CD2). First I will post the logs from the rips of Comfortably Numb from each CD:

From the first CD rip: Track 6: AccurateRip Verified Confidence 153, Pressing Offset -202 [ARv2 CRC EB624BEE] C:\Users\A\Desktop\Lossless CD Rips\The Wall CD2\2-06 Comfortably Numb.m4a

From the second: Track 6: AccurateRip Verified Confidence 153, Pressing Offset +102 [ARv2 CRC EB624BEE] C:\Users\A\Desktop\Lossless CD Rips\The Wall CD2\2-06 Comfortably Numb.wav

So both have the same ARv2 CRC values and have a confidence of 153, but different offsets. Also one is ripped as ALAC and the other as WAV, but I don't think that matters. Anyway this leads me to believe they are the same track (see my question 2 above.)

Anyway, when I play each one by itself I hear a "popping type" sound at the end of the tracks. These sounds come at the VERY end and make me think they are the fraction of a second beginnings of the next track. Because when I play Comfortably Numb from both rips followed by the next track there is a smooth transition and I don't hear anything. But the problem is the "popping" sounds (I really don't know how to describe them) are different from each other. So my question is, if the tracks are identical shouldn't all the musical information be identical? Shouldn't the tracks sound EXACTLY the same? Because here they don't. So I'm wondering what is happening...

Any help would be tremendously appreciated!

Thank you!

[garym]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

1. No, checking tracks with PerfectTunes or Cuetools does not add to the AR database. Only RIPPING the CD itself adds to the AR database.
2. offsets and CRCs are two different things.
3. see *2 above. But I'm really not sure what you're trying to get at here. Tracks are either correct match back to AR or AR2 database or they are not. After that, you're now in the "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" territory.
4. popping sounds. If the tracks are accurately ripped (and they are reported as being Accurately ripped, so I'm sure they are), I suspect your popping sound is something that is being caused by the PLAYER and it is not in the track itself. This is actually very common with some players (VLC and others), particularly with ALAC files. And some players don't handle WAV and tags very well and you year a pop when the player messes up slightly because of the tag in the WAV file.

What player are you using. Try the files on, say, Foobar2000 instead. Do you hear the pop? Also, listen to the tracks as they move from one to another without fast forwarding or clicking ahead to move faster. Do you still have the pop when a track transitions to the next track.

[Spoon]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

2) Yes, the only difference is the pressing offset.

4) There have also been CDs which are incorrectly mastered, so everyone gets this pop.

[mathmat]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

Hi garym. Thanks for replying.

I'll get back to my original questions 2 and 3 later as I'm more concerned with the popping sounds.

Again, the pops come from the tracks in my first post that come from 2 different CDs with the same ARv2 CRCs as well as identical AccurateRip DiscIDs and confidence values. And of course are listed as being ripped accurately. And I do not hear anything when I play either straight through to the next song for each CD Rip. Sounds normal.

One was originally ripped as WAV and the other as ALAC. When I play the WAV with Windows Media Player I don't hear the pop. But when I play it with iTunes I DO hear it. Also I hear it with VLC.

For the ALAC, I hear it with VLC and iTunes. But then I converted it to a WAV and played it with WMP and no pop. But when I play the converted WAV with iTunes or VLC I still hear it.

So my question is why do the "pops" sound different? The fact that I got the CRCs, and confidence, and IDs all the same makes me think it's the same Remaster. (That's what I was getting at in questions 2 and 3.) But the CDs were different releases with different packaging, barcodes, etc. I'm pretty sure they are the same remastered version based on the AccurateRip data as well as checking the Pink Floyd Archives. 1992 Remaster. But I'm not 100% sure since I'm new to all this technical stuff and not educated enough about this.

I could snip the last 2 seconds of each and upload them but I don't want to get into any copyright violation. (Although I doubt putting 2 seconds of silence followed by a "pop" would be a problem.)

Anyway, just not sure why the "pops" are different sounding given the accurate rip data. One is clearly louder than the other.

Any help appreciated greatly!

Thanks again!

[mathmat]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

4) There have also been CDs which are incorrectly mastered, so everyone gets this pop.

Thanks Spoon. That makes sense. But what would cause the "pops" to sound different on the different CDs? Because the CRCs, confidence, Disc IDs are all identical and I believe they are the same remaster as I mentioned in my reply to garym. But as I also mentioned, the CDs were different releases with different packaging.

Thanks!

[garym]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

first, the pops have nothing to do with the accruateripping (or matches to AR). You're going down the wrong path. These are Accurately ripped tracks and the pops are not in the digital track itself (that's why you do NOT hear the pops when you play the songs straight through; if the pops were inherent in the tracks, you'd hear them there too!).

Some players pop when switching quickly from one track to another. Also, if you have "use track replaygain" turned on in your player (or soundcheck in itunes), the pops might be related to the slight volume changes when moving from one track to another. By the way VLC is a terrible player for audio. I use it for videos, but it is very lacking on many dimensions for Audio playback.

[mathmat]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

first, the pops have nothing to do with the accruateripping (or matches to AR). You're going down the wrong path. These are Accurately ripped tracks and the pops are not in the digital track itself (that's why you do NOT hear the pops when you play the songs straight through; if the pops were inherent in the tracks, you'd hear them there too!).

Thanks again garym. I figured that since the tracks played straight through without hearing anything there wasn't a problem in the rip, especially since 2 different rips came back as identical, even though they had different sounding pops.

I thought it could be the first few microseconds of the next track (since Pink Floyd albums don't have clean breaks between tracks most of the time), but since the pop sounds were different that would mean the that the track that followed Comfortably Numb would have a different length on the 2 CDs, correct? But the following tracks (The Show Must Go On) came back with the same CRCs and confidence level and Disc ID. My understanding of how AccurateRip works is through some use of checksums. (I know if you have a word document, for example, and change a period to a question mark you'll get different checksums.) So if these "pops" were the beginnings of the next track, the next tracks would have different lengths and hence I'd get different AccurateRip results.

As far as Spoon's suggestion that the CDs were incorrectly mastered, I wonder. It makes sense, but Pink Floyd has always had a reputation for putting out the highest quality product. So I have some doubt at least that they'd let any errors in mastering come out. But Spoon knows better than me.

But again, if the CD Rips give the same AccurateRip results and are working off the same 1992 Remaster, why are the pop sounds for the 2 different rips of Comfortably Numb different?

[garym]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

But again, if the CD Rips give the same AccurateRip results and are working off the same 1992 Remaster, why are the pop sounds for the 2 different rips of Comfortably Numb different?

I don't think it is the mastering of CD (an error in CD). You've already proven that. And its not in the digital file itself, you've proven that. None of this has anything to do with the tracks. It is something in the PLAYER. Try playing with foobar2000 instead, for example. Bottom line, the pops are a function of your PLAYER.

[mathmat]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

I don't think it is the mastering of CD (an error in CD). You've already proven that. And its not in the digital file itself, you've proven that. None of this has anything to do with the tracks. It is something in the PLAYER. Try playing with foobar2000 instead, for example. Bottom line, the pops are a function of your PLAYER.

Thanks again garym. I appreciate your responses and your patience with me. :smile:

I think you're right. The AccurateRip checks came back fine so whatever I have the other 150 or so must have the same thing. The encouraging thing is when I play the WAV files with Windows Media Player I don't hear the pops. I wonder if the reason for the different sounds of the pops has something to do with the fact that they're different pressings of the same CD.

Anyway, thanks for all your advice!

P.S. The reason I have always used iTunes and ALAC is because I listen to my music almost exclusively in my car using my iPod. But I find Windows Media Player to be better at playing both video and audio than VLC or iTunes. Only problem is that it's limited in the kinds of files it can play.

[garym]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

I wonder if the reason for the different sounds of the pops has something to do with the fact that they're different pressings of the same CD.

Do you mean that you play, for example, track 1 ripped from one CD, then track 2 ripped from a different physical CD, and you hear the pop between the two tracks?

[mathmat]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

Do you mean that you play, for example, track 1 ripped from one CD, then track 2 ripped from a different physical CD, and you hear the pop between the two tracks?

No. I hear the pop when I play the track (Comfortably Numb) in isolation. For example, by itself in a playlist in iTunes or just opening the file with a program.

I have 2 rips of CD2 of The Wall from 2 different physical discs, and 2 pops at the very, very end of each rip of Comfortably Numb, but the pops sound VERY different (even though the AccurateRip data for each track was identical-see my original post). But when I play Comfortably Numb from CDRip1 followed by the following track (The Show Must Go On) from CDRip1 (in iTunes or my iPod) I don't hear the pop. The same for CDRip2. I actually just tried Comfortably Numb from CDRip1 followed by the following track (The Show Must Go On) from CDRip2 and there was no pop. That would make sense since both CDs are the same remaster (as far as I know) even though they were different releases (diff packaging, barcode, etc.)

But like I said earlier, either rip when played as a WAV file using Windows Media Player, there is no pop. Pops only come from ALAC, iTunes, and VLC. The only combination where it doesn't pop is WAV+WMP.

I can upload the last 2 seconds of each rip (silence followed by the pop) as long as it doesn't break any copyright laws. But I'm not sure if that's necessary or not.

It's just strange that the "pops" sound different, since they are from the same remaster, albeit different pressings. (Not to mention identical AccurateRip data)

Thanks for all your help.

[garym]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

You're barking up the wrong tree. None of this relates to the digital files, the ripping, the cd versions, the offsets, or any of the things you are hypothesizing. I'll say it once again: it's all related to your players. And again, VLC is really crap as an audio player.

[mville]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

2) I ripped 2 versions of The Wall that were released in different years with different packaging, different barcodes, etc. I'll stick to CD2 in each of the 2 versions I ripped (The CD with Comfortably Numb on it.

Can you be more specific about the 2 versions of Pink Floyd - The Wall, that you are ripping i.e. Year, Label, Country of release, Barcode etc.

[mathmat]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

You're barking up the wrong tree. None of this relates to the digital files, the ripping, the cd versions, the offsets, or any of the things you are hypothesizing. I'll say it once again: it's all related to your players. And again, VLC is really crap as an audio player.

I don't think it's a problem with the digital files. My question is simply why the "pops" sound different. I just think that since the tracks are from the same remasters the pops should sound the same, since they're supposedly identical files. I say they are identical because of the AccurateRip dtata. That's all.

I don't use VLC really. I think it sucks as a music player as well. I'm just saying that when I play on that program I get the "pop.' Same with iTunes and my iPod.

[mathmat]

Re: Another AccurateRip/PefectTUNES question.

Can you be more specific about the 2 versions of Pink Floyd - The Wall, that you are ripping i.e. Year, Label, Country of release, Barcode etc.

I don't have the discs handy, but I will check the Pink Floyd archives and do best from memory. Hang on...