only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

[Z3r0]

This is a problem i've had for ages and I even with Itunes 5 I can't fix it

I've tried both Nero 6.6.0.16 and Itunes 5 using mp4 tags, when I transfer to my shuffle nothing happens.

But, when I use FAAC 1.24.1 it works fine.

Any ideas?

I have tried removing the tags on the Itunes 5 and Nero encoded file and it still doesn't play.

This is with DMC 11.5 final

Itunes is transferring

[Spoon]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

Which program is transfering to the Shuffle?

[Z3r0]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

Itunes is transferring, I noticed this problem about 3 months ago but resigned myself to the fact that I could only use FAAC, but now it's annoying me

all files I tested are named .m4a (even the nero encoded ones)
all files use the mp4 id tag

even with the tag removed they still won't play

but all play fine in itunes

is dbpoweramp tagging the files itself in all cases? or is it the encoder? to me it looks as though faac tags itself. Not too sure about the others.

The files I have been converting are wma lossless files from my MCE media center collection.

Converting from m4a to mp3 and from wma to mp3 plays fine on the shuffle.

[Spoon]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

dBpowerAMP will write the tags in all cases, not FAAC - even if using the dBpowerAMP Nero encoder or dBpowerAMP iTunes Encoder.

[Z3r0]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

ah ok, the file encoded within itunes has the following file size 7,395,989 and tags (artist, title, album, track, year, genre, comment, compilation, tempo, tool)

the one encoded with dbpoweramp also has wm/albumartist and wm/mediaprimaryclassid and its file size is 7,440,570 which is a difference of 44,581 bytes

Another question: could it be that dbpoweramp is somehow putting the aac files into the wrong container format type, i.e. a type that isn't supported by the shuffle (but then in this case it would be doing it for all encoders) or that it is writing the container headers or tags / start of song positions incorrectly? (once again if this were the case the faac encoder would also be broken)

[Spoon]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

You answered you own questions effectively the encoders put audio in the containers them selves, you can run a test were no tags are written (switch off ID TAg preservation).

[Z3r0]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

ok, that is really strange, yes, by not selecting preserve tags the songs play fine on the shuffle.

When encoding with nero with tags preserved the file size is 6,464,820 bytes
When tags are removed with mp3tag it is 6,464,382 bytes and in both cases the song doesn't play BUT
When preserve tags is unselected the file size is 6,370,159 bytes which is 100k smaller and the song plays fine.

Similarly with iTunes encoder preserve tags size = 6,479,731
After removing tags with mp3tag = 6,477,362 bytes in both cases the song doesn't play.
Now, with preserve tags unselected or when encoding within iTunes (and keeping tags) the filesize is 6,382,228 bytes and once again the song plays fine.

Faac encode with tags preserved = 6,360,287
Faac no preserve tags= 6,359,888
Faac and mp3tag to remove tags= 6,359,849
In all cases the faac encode works fine.

Also, removing the tags makes the songs impossible to find in Itunes so I really would like to keep them please

Is it possible that dbpoweramp is adding 'padding' to the songs which is being recognised incorrectly by the shuffle? the only solution I have at the moment is to use iTunes to encode all my music :(

Also, the encoders put the files into the mp4 container, you said that dbpoweramp adds the mp4 tags itself? why not use the command line parameters for the encoders to add the tags? this could be where there is a problem being created?

As you can see above, the itunes.exe can encode the file WITH tags to the same size that dbpoweramp can using itunesencoder.exe WITHOUT tags.
Is it possible that iTunes is adding it's own tag area to the file and then dbpoweramp is adding another mp4 tag area as well? creating two tag areas? without realising that iTunes has already created one?



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Also a totally seperate issue, nevertheless i'll put it here, converting C:\WINDOWS\Media\start.wav to faac (ABR 96) and nero (CBR96) fails to play in winamp, but seems to work fine with itunes (CBR96) lol, don't ask me why.

[Spoon]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

It depends upon what you are decoding, it might contain a large cover art which is going over? Try ripping a CD using dbpoweramp to either format, it will just write normal tags.

[Z3r0]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

there is no coverart inside the m4a, it is seperate cover.jpg
I don't want to have to re-rip my collection as I ripped it when it was new and I don't want to introduce errors into my music collection from dusty CDs.
oh well, guess i'll have to convert it all in iTunes then

[Spoon]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

My suggestion was to just test ripping one or two files.

[Z3r0]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

ripping directly to nero mp4 format and then renaming to m4a and copying over with itunes to the ipod shuffle doesn't work.
When I try to play the song the ipods front light and rear light go on and then when I press play again the rear light just flashes once and goes off and the back light stays on. doh.
Also i'm selecting nero 96kbit CBR and it's coming out ABR? is guess this is a nero encoder problem?

[Z3r0]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

ok, here's another thing you could do to see that dbpoweramp is actually tagging the mp4s incorrectly / two times / in the wrong position?

encode with itunes a song to m4a format
encode a song with itunes to dbpoweramp format

Search for all references to 'itunes'

With the song encoded with itunes there is only one area at the start of the file where itunes is mentioned as the tool, this is the mp4 ID tag.

With the song encoded using dbpoweramp itunes encoder, there are two areas where the word itunes is mentioned as the tool.
Once at the start of the file it is mentioned as the tool used, but also the filename is given as ~dmcin, this is the mp4 ID tag added by itunes, which, as we can see when we search to the bottom of the file we have the full and correct tag data added by dbpoweramp.

To me, it looks as though dbpoweramp has ignored the itunes mp4 ID tag and added it's own, instead of using the area that iTunes has allocated for the mp4 ID tag already?

It is also the same with the nero encoded file, there are two references to the nero encoder as the encoding tool.

BUT, with the faac encoded file, there is one reference to "libfaac 1.24.1" at the start, but this is not part of the tag and one reference to "FAAC 1.24.1" at the end of the file as the encoding tool.

[Spoon]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

Each encoder, Nero, or iTunes will add tag info no matter what.

Have you updated the firmware of the Shuffle? the shipping firmware is not very good at AAC compatibility.

[Z3r0]

Re: only FAAC encoded m4a works on shuffle

yes I am using the latest shuffle update
I think though, files that are 100kb larger with tags, must have something wrong with them.