WMA Encoding Problem

[Biker803]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

Okay, I'll have to mess with it a bit more to get the hang of my "limits" for conversions like these... what will work and what won't. Don't have much time tonight, it's 12:40am now, and I'm about ready to leave for bed, but what would you suggest as the optimum settings for me ripping a CD to WMA Pro (that works)? :smile2: Or even lossless, but I'm not sure if pro or lossless is higher quality.

[xoas]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

Using dMC and the WMA 9.1 codec, I was able to convert to WMA Professional, Quality 75, 96 kHz, 2 channel, 24 bit vbr (resulting bitrate was 176). I was also able to convert to WMA Professional, Quality setting 10, 48 kHz, 2 channel, 24 bit vbr (resulting bitrate of 88). The first conversion was slow (0.8x Real Time encoding) but both worked. But unless you have a 24 bit soundcard or an application that needs or plays 24 bit files, 16 bit should be better for you. Unless you have a need for a frequency as high as 96 kHz, I would recommend staying with a lower frequency (specifically 44.1).

I was only ripping single files single. If you want to try 96 kHz at 75 Quality, you might do better to convert to 96 kHz wav first.

BTW-Lossless will be higher quality. You will never get higher quality than lossless.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[adaywayne]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

If I have understood this thread so far, Biker is trying to rip to WMA directly from a CD. If that is the case, there is no point in trying to rip at anything other than 16 bit, 44100Hz, since that is how the information is on the CD. In addition, downloading to a wave file and then converting to a lossless format will not improve the audio quality, so is an excercise in futility. One cannot get any better than what is on the original CD

[ChristinaS]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

If I have understood this thread so far, Biker is trying to rip to WMA directly from a CD. If that is the case, there is no point in trying to rip at anything other than 16 bit, 44100Hz, since that is how the information is on the CD. In addition, downloading to a wave file and then converting to a lossless format will not improve the audio quality, so is an excercise in futility. One cannot get any better than what is on the original CD

That is pretty much the idea.

Converting a wav which corresponds exactly to the original audio cd track to a lossless format makes sense as long as that lossless format results in a file no bigger than the wav file. If there's significant space saved it is useful in order to store audio files in a compact manner. Changing specs to increase bits and frequency is useless unless there's a specific needd for that as in some application that may requires them. The audio quality will not be improved in any case.

[xoas]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

If I have understood this thread so far, Biker is trying to rip to WMA directly from a CD. If that is the case, there is no point in trying to rip at anything other than 16 bit, 44100Hz, since that is how the information is on the CD.

Exactly right, unless Biker has a specialized need for a different bit setting or a different frequency.

In addition, downloading to a wave file and then converting to a lossless format will not improve the audio quality, so is an excercise in futility. One cannot get any better than what is on the original CD

I am not sure of your point here.

A wav or lossless file ripped from cd will not be better than the cd but that doesn't mean that it is foolish to rip tracks from cd to lossless on your hard drive.

If you mean it is pointless converting to wav first, that would be correct except for situations where you need to do an intermediate conversion first. So if Biker can only get the wma file settings he feels that he needs with a conversion first to wav, then that is what he should do.

You are probably right in questioning Biker's need for the conversion settings he is attempting (as I did question in a milder way in Post #17) but ultimately the user is a better judge of his/her needs than others.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[adaywayne]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

That is pretty much the idea.

Converting a wav which corresponds exactly to the original audio cd track to a lossless format makes sense as long as that lossless format results in a file no bigger than the wav file. If there's significant space saved it is useful in order to store audio files in a compact manner. Changing specs to increase bits and frequency is useless unless there's a specific needd for that as in some application that may requires them. The audio quality will not be improved in any case.

[COLOR=Blue]Yes, thanks for clarifying what I posted. You are correct that converting to lossless can give a file 50% the size of the original with no loss in audio quality. I should have made that clearer.
Arnie[/COLOR]

[adaywayne]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

[QUOTE=xoas]Exactly right, unless Biker has a specialized need for a different bit setting or a different frequency.

[COLOR=Blue] Quote:
In addition, downloading to a wave file and then converting to a lossless format will not improve the audio quality, so is an excercise in futility. One cannot get any better than what is on the original CD[/COLOR]

I am not sure of your point here.

A wav or lossless file ripped from cd will not be better than the cd but that doesn't mean that it is foolish to rip tracks from cd to lossless on your hard drive.

[COLOR=Blue]Exactly, see my response to Christina.....I was thinking only audio quality and not file size. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Biker was foolish!!

I'm going to try ripping from CD to WMA at various settings to see what I get. Will post back.
Arnie[/COLOR]

[adaywayne]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

[QUOTE=adaywayne]

I'm going to try ripping from CD to WMA at various settings to see what I get. Will post back.
Arnie[/COLOR]

Well, here is what I found using the latest WMA Codec V 9.1 from the DMC Codec Central. Whether ripping/converting to WMA from a CD (using dB Audio CD ripper) or converting a wave file from my hard drive to WMA using DMC.

1. The highest frequency option was 48KHz. I believe this frequency is used in DVD audio and also in streaming video clips.

2. I ripped a track from CD to WMA at 44,100Hz, 128KBps VBR and all went well. I had no problems playing the file with WMP.

3. I did the same thing but at 48KHz. The rip/conversion appeared to go just fine. However, the resulting file showed a size of about 5.8MB but a length of 00.00 minutes. Neither WMP nor any other player I tried would play the file....which didn't surprise me.

Hope this helps.
Arnie

[Biker803]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

Okay, so what I've got from what you guys have been saying is that it's pretty much pointless to attempt 96 kHz. I am ripping normal audio CDs for the most part, but since I was never really educated that much on all of these types of frequencies, bitrates, etc, it became clearer as you guys were posting more of what my limits were. I had been just trying to "bump everything up as high as I could" to what I thought would produce the best sound.

I do have a 24-bit sound card, but I'm still not sure from what you guys were saying if it's actually worth it to rip 24-bit audio, though it does seem to work on my part when I'm ripping at the 44 kHz frequency, so I'm not complaining on that part. What I'm ultimately trying to accomplish is get the best quality audio possible, and on the side it'd be nice to have a pretty decent file size, but I have a 250gig HD so it's not too important, and I'd like to accomplish this with the WMA encoder unless someone had any suggestions for something else? Thanks!

[adaywayne]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

Okay, so what I've got from what you guys have been saying is that it's pretty much pointless to attempt 96 kHz. I am ripping normal audio CDs for the most part, but since I was never really educated that much on all of these types of frequencies, bitrates, etc, it became clearer as you guys were posting more of what my limits were. I had been just trying to "bump everything up as high as I could" to what I thought would produce the best sound.

I do have a 24-bit sound card, but I'm still not sure from what you guys were saying if it's actually worth it to rip 24-bit audio, though it does seem to work on my part when I'm ripping at the 44 kHz frequency, so I'm not complaining on that part. What I'm ultimately trying to accomplish is get the best quality audio possible, and on the side it'd be nice to have a pretty decent file size, but I have a 250gig HD so it's not too important, and I'd like to accomplish this with the WMA encoder unless someone had any suggestions for something else? Thanks!

You got it pretty much right, Biker. Just one comment, your 24-bit soundcard will produce higher quality analog audio output than a 16-bit one, but only from sources which are either analog themselves (for example, a line-in from an LP turntable or a cassette player) or from digital sources which have been encoded at 24-bit or higher rate (some DVDs/games audio etc). But, from current audio CDs you will see no difference, because the digital information on the CD was produced by taking 16-bit samples (chunks or bites, if you like), 44,100 every second from a continuous stream of information. So there is no way one can do anything to the digital information from the CD to get more musical information from it than it contains.

To put it simply, the CD format is, itself, a "lossy" format by definition. Now, of course, one can add DSP (Digital Signal Processing) effects such as reverberation, artificial surround sound, echo, "sounds likes it's coming from the bottom of a mine shaft" effects, and so on, but I don't consider these as audio quality improvements! But, then again, I'm old-fashioned (because I'm old!)
Hope the above makes sense.
Arnie

[Biker803]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

Alright it's all much clearer now. Thanks everyone for helping me out with this, I really appreciate the time spent to resolve the "issue" which turned up being a fault on my part, so as an outcome I know a bunch more about all of this.

Thanks again!

[adaywayne]

Re: WMA Encoding Problem

Alright it's all much clearer now. Thanks everyone for helping me out with this, I really appreciate the time spent to resolve the "issue" which turned up being a fault on my part, so as an outcome I know a bunch more about all of this.

Thanks again!

That's what this forum is for! Thanks for providing your feedback.
Arnie