.APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

[MARK S]

Hi,

thanks again for your answers ... i hope im not getting annoying here with all the questions ... this is just all new to me......

SO,

I was able to install the codecs for APE files and play them on the dbpoweramp player, great. (ive had some problems with them on winamp, though).
So something occurred to me -
What if i just moved all my CDs onto computer as .wav files? Is that not 'lossless'? What would be the disadvantage of doing that? The reason I ask is ... reading comments from other people, it does seem that the .ape files do cause problems sometimes on winamp and other programs ... ?? (like not reading the times of the songs properly). I guess im also concerned that ".ape" files wont be supported at some point in the future, and then ill have no idea how to play all my music .... what im trying to do is transfer all my cds to computer and then permanently play them off computers - including 20 years from now etc ....

??
mark

[xoas]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

What if i just moved all my CDs onto computer as .wav files? Is that not 'lossless'? What would be the disadvantage of doing that?

The chief advantage of .ape (or other compression formats) over .wav is that they result in file sizes rather smaller than the corresponding .wav files would be. This allows you to save more files in a given amount of space and if you send or share files this is can be easier with smaller files. What might also be different is file tagging properties (which I know can vary from one compression format to another but I do not know about the file tagging abilities of straight .wav files).

I guess im also concerned that ".ape" files wont be supported at some point in the future, and then ill have no idea how to play all my music .... what im trying to do is transfer all my cds to computer and then permanently play them off computers - including 20 years from now etc

Theoretically, as long as you maintain your software and back up your files regularly it should not matter if a particular file format stops being supported. Eventually even hard drives fail. Eventually CD's will go the way of the phonograph. Eventually .wav may be replaced by some other format for "raw" digital music data. In 20 years it may well be that your computer and operating system will no longer be supported. So your standard may not be attainable for the same reasons that if you could get all of your CD's on a single giant CD changer you wouldn't expect those to be in perfect order 20 years from now as both the CD's and your changer will degrade over time. In fact, the computer should do rather better over time. In any case this is a universal issue and not, strictly speaking, an issue with the .Ape format itself.

Anyway, those are some thoughts. You might want to check out Spoon's Audio Guide (link near the top of the page).
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Mark S]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

thats great, great. thanks again. highly informative answer!
i guess that just leaves the question - is there any 'lossless' format youd recommend over ape? maybe a format thats more widely accepted by audio players, or might have a greater shot at lasting longer than ape? it does seem clear to me, though, that ape is better than .wav ....
you know, the mp3 files at the highest quality sound so good that i wonder if i can even hear any difference at all between them and the lossless files. i guess a lot of testing is in order.....

[ferris209]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

Check out this link posted by an unregistered guest in another thread, pretty darn interesting I think!

http://mp3.radified.com/

[Unregistered]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

do you think thats good info. on that site? (im never sure if im reading something intended to get me to use something particular for some nefarious reason on random internet sites, thats why im seeking your opinion here ... i posted that link)
in your opnion, for lossless ripping, is ape the best way to go?

[drspy00]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

That looks like a great site. Very informative!

[neilh]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

I decided to go with lossless because ripping a cd collection takes a lot of time, and it is assuring to know that your files will be as good as the original. Let's say you lose the cd, it's nice to be able to burn another copy that's as good as gold (besides gap issues, though). I'm also a bit of an audiophile, I have to admit. Hard drive costs only go down, and I know I would regret going with a lossy format years from now.

The more difficult question is which lossless format to go with. I went with FLAC because I thought it had the best future being open source and cross platform. BUT, then Apple had to bring in their own lossless format and now I am going to have to convert my FLAC's to that. Apple lossless has the advantage of working with iTunes and my iPod.

I would consider going with apple lossless if you plan on using an iPod. iTunes is also a nice player despite its serious limitations on formats. Spoon is at work on the apple lossless decoder, then encoder (go Spoon!). I don't think iTunes is going anywhere soon because of the huge market share the iPod has.

Good luck.

[MARK S]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

Thank you for the response......

>>>>The more difficult question is which lossless format to go with. I went with FLAC because I thought it had the best future being open source and cross platform. BUT, then Apple had to bring in their own lossless format and now I am going to have to convert my FLAC's to that. Apple lossless has the advantage of working with iTunes and my iPod.

Question - How easy is it to change from one file type to another? I think I've also decided to go with lossless, and I have the same concerns. Lets say you have a file with 2000 .APE or FLAC files that you want to convert to apple files, can you just convert the entire file of 2000 songs at once? I think you probably can but I just want to make sure ....

Also, would you recommend FLAC rather than APE or any of the other lossless formats? I dont have an ipod ...... so basically I just want files that i can play on a lot of different players, which will be possible to change into another type on lossless file without any loss, in the future when it inevitably becomes necessary ..... thats why im worried about the APE ....... what is FLAC?

[neilh]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

Question - How easy is it to change from one file type to another? .... can you just convert the entire file of 2000 songs at once?

The dbPowerAmp File Selector is an killer program for converting multiple files at a time. APE and FLAC are both supported by db, but you hve to download their codecs from the codec page. Apple lossless is so new that it is not yet supported - only iTunes can generate Apple lossless files at this time - see this thread.

Also, would you recommend FLAC rather than APE or any of the other lossless formats? I don't have an ipod ...... so basically I just want files that i can play on a lot of different players, which will be possible to change into another type on lossless file without any loss, in the future when it inevitably becomes necessary ..... thats why I'm worried about the APE ....... what is FLAC?

I would say FLAC has a slight up on APE in terms of compatibility, but major players (besides iTunes) will be able to play both. APE has a better compression rate, so the files are smaller. I know spoon favors APE. I favor FLAC b/c it is supported better in the linux/mac world. Wireless players (that you hook up to your stereo, like slimbox) seem more likely to adopt FLAC than APE.

if you don't care about iPod/iTunes, forget Apple lossless. Another option, to further confuse matters, is WMA lossless. I'm not sure why I don't hear more about this format, because wma is very well supported.

[MARK S]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

Thanks ....... jeez, WMA lossless?? that DOES confuse matters ....... well, basically, ive decided that I DO definitely want lossless, its just a matter of deciding which one. I guess what Im afraid of is that I wont be able to convert them into some other format in the future and ill have to rip them all over again .... so it seems that the contenders are

APE
FLAC
WMA LOSSLESS.

it seems that flac isnt ideal for my needs, i usually use winamp, so that leaves APE and WMA LOSSLESS.

maybe wma is the best choice, because, being that its microsoft, itll probably be supported by everything, forever, ya? im a little nervous about the APE, i have to admit ..... am i wrong?

are there any more big contenders for this unholy mission that i should be aware of? any other really good lossless formats?? there seem to be a bunch and its hard to tell what people actually use and what will disappear in 3 months.......

anyway, if its lossless, the whole file will be there, right? is it really a pain in the ass to transfer 1 file type into another (assuming someone has written a program to do it) ...... ?

[MARK S]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

looking over everything again, ya, FLAC does seem really good. so i guess the choice is between
FLAC
APE
WMA LOSSLESS
and
?????????
damn this aint easy.....

[drspy00]

Re: .APE - .WAV ?? or some other....

I think you can just choose a format and if you dont like it just convert it to another lossless format no big deal at all if thats right.