Converting multi-channel flac files

[RonM]

I have a new recording from Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods, downloaded from their website. They don't appear to claim these files are multi-channel, but the individual file are huge (upwards of 230 mb each), and apparently only in 44.1. Presumably 24 bit. Mp3 tag reports that the bitrate for the files is upwards of 5000 kbps!

It has been suggested that the these might be multi-channel flac.

I converted one of the tracks to 320 kbps using dBp, and got a reduction in filesize, from 230 to around half that. I hadn't thought that if they were multi-track that dBp would retain all the track info during a conversion, but may be wrong. How does that work?

Any idea about what is going on with these tracks?

R.

[mville]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

I have a new recording from Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods, downloaded from their website. They don't appear to claim these files are multi-channel, but the individual file are huge (upwards of 230 mb each), and apparently only in 44.1. Presumably 24 bit. Mp3 tag reports that the bitrate for the files is upwards of 5000 kbps!

What file format did you download? What OS are you running? Can you post a link to the download site?

[RonM]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

What file format did you download? What OS are you running? Can you post a link to the download site?

Sorry, they were flacs. I'm on Windows. The download site required me to update my java version, as they force a download manager that requires local java (wasn't too happy about that).

I went back to the site, thinking I maybe missed a multi-channel reference, only to find that the flac option has disappeared altogether. Contacted customer support, where the agent was similarly bemused at the disappearance of the flac option for this album. Suggests that there was something wrong with the files. She gave me contact details for the download manager, but I haven't received a response yet.

The site is at http://medeskimartinandwood.shop.mus...=124&pc=MWDD15, but as noted the flac option no longer appears.

r.

[mville]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

Sorry, they were flacs. I'm on Windows.

In Windows Explorer, right click on a one of the downloaded tracks and choose properties, then select the Audio Properties tab.

What is Channels, Sample Rate, Sample Size reporting?

[RonM]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

In Windows Explorer, right click on a one of the downloaded tracks and choose properties, then select the Audio Properties tab.

What is Channels, Sample Rate, Sample Size reporting?

I'm not at home with these files, and don't remember noticing "Channels, but they were 44.1 and 24 otherwise.

Odd, just didn't look for channels there. Will check this evening.

When converted to Mp3/320, the file size was on the order of 150 mb per track.

R.

[RonM]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

In Windows Explorer, right click on a one of the downloaded tracks and choose properties, then select the Audio Properties tab.

What is Channels, Sample Rate, Sample Size reporting?

Right-clicking on the flac files does NOT produce a context menu with Audio Properties, just plain old Properties. Which report two channels, 44.1 and nothing about bit depth. Interestingly, when I right click on the mp3/320 files I created with dBp it does give me audio properties, and reports a compressed size of 13 MB. However, Windows Explorer reports a file size of 120 MB for the same file. And any interaction with the file takes the time that I'd expect of a big file.

[mville]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

Right-clicking on the flac files does NOT produce a context menu with Audio Properties, just plain old Properties.

Re-read post no. 4.

Once you select properties, do you see the Audio Properties tab? If not, you need to select the Audio Properties option in dBpoweramp Configuration.

... however, it looks like you have stereo tracks, 44.1KHz. Do they playback OK? I'm not sure I understand the problem you have.

[RonM]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

Re-read post no. 4.

Once you select properties, do you see the Audio Properties tab? If not, you need to select the Audio Properties option in dBpoweramp Configuration.

... however, it looks like you have stereo tracks, 44.1KHz. Do they playback OK? I'm not sure I understand the problem you have.

I thought that was clear. When I select properties on an MP3 I get audio properties; when I select properties on a flac I don't.

The problem ultimately is that the file sizes are way bigger than they should be, a single track being bigger than a normal entire CD worth of flacs. Even the converted MP3/320 is way bigger than it should be, maybe 10 times bigger.

Interestingly, when I look at one of these MP3 tracks with Audio Properties, it reports a file size about a tenth the size of the track size as shown in the standard Explorer dialog. Since accessing or manipulating these tracks takes way longer than normal, I'd say that the larger size is correct, and certainly is how it is seen on the drive. It's like each file has a huge amount of redundant space or content that does not affect playability.

R.

[Spoon]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/codec-central-utility.htm

Install Audio Info utility codec from here, and convert both flac and mp3 to this codec, post the results here please.

[RonM]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

Here are the results of audio info. Nothing seems wrong here, not that I'd necessarily notice, but file sizes are 249,000 KB and 119,000 KB respectively for flac and MP3/320. I thought I had found and resolved the problem when I noticed that the embedded album art was a 6000 x 6000 image, which is a very large size indeed. I stripped that with MP3 tag, and it no longer shows as present in the audio info, but it made no difference to the filesize.

I should also note that MP3Tag reports the bit rate for the flac file as 5724 kbps, 4 times the rate found by dBp.

____________________________

Audio Details for: F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_01_Sham Time.flac

Length: 5 minutes 46 seconds
Channels: 2 (stereo)
Sample Rate: 44.1 KHz
Sample Size: 16 bit
Bit Rate: 1,411 kbps (CD)

Audio Properties:

Audio Quality: Perfect (Lossless)
Encoder: FLAC reference libFLAC 1.2.1 20070917
Sample Count: 15,268,775
ID Tag: Vorbis Comments
Contains: CRC, ID Tag [Vorbis Comments]
Gapless: Yes

ID Tags:

ISRC: US-CTT-14-00001
ENCODEDBY: Jonathan Snyder
COPYRIGHT: 2014
BAND: Medeski Martin & Wood
TITLE: Sham Time
OrigReference: CHDWESARACON97953223054649807361
OrigTime: 22:27:09
TimeReference: 0
CodingHistory: A=PCM,F=88200,W=24,M=stereo,T=Sequoia software
A=PCM,F=44100,W=16,M=stereo,T=Saracon SRC (Weiss Engineering)
A=PCM,F=44100,W=16,M=stereo,T=libsndfile-1.0.23

Album: Juice
Artist: Medeski Martin & Wood
Genre: jazz-funk
Disc: 0
Year: 2014
Track: 1
Album Artist: Medeski Martin & Wood ** Decode Error **


========================================
Audio Details for: F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_01_Sham Time.mp3

Length: 5 minutes 46 seconds
Channels: 2 (stereo)
Sample Rate: 44.1 KHz
Sample Size: 16 bit
Bit Rate: 320 kbps

Audio Properties:

Audio Quality: Very High (Lossy)
Encoder: LAME 3.99r
Encoder Settings: Constant Bit Rate 320 kbps (Insane)
Channel Mapping: Left, Right
Channel Coupling: Joint-Stereo (Mid Side)
Sample Count: 15,268,775
MPEG Version: MPEG 1 Layer III
MPEG Technical: Header: Lame [delay: 576 padding: 1561] Bits: Original Free-Format
Gapless: Yes

[dbfan]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

Yes it will be the album art, remove it from flac file, then convert flac to flac to recover the space.

[RonM]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

Yes it will be the album art, remove it from flac file, then convert flac to flac to recover the space.

Tried that. Re-convert failed. Here is the error message for one of the tracks -- same message for all tracks.

Error converting to FLAC, 'F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_02_North London.flac' to 'F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\Converted\02 - North London.flac'
Encountered 'FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_READ_METADATA' in FLAC File 'F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_02_North London.flac'
Encountered 'FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_READ_METADATA' in FLAC File 'F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_02_North London.flac'
Encountered 'FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_READ_METADATA' in FLAC File 'F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_02_North London.flac'
Encountered 'FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_READ_METADATA' in FLAC File 'F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_02_North London.flac'
Encountered 'FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_READ_METADATA' in FLAC File 'F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_02_North London.flac'
Encountered 'FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_READ_METADATA' in FLAC File 'F:\Music\Zunior and Miscellaneous Downloads\FLAC Originals\Medeski, Schofield, Martin and Woods\Juice\D0_02_North London.flac'

[Spoon]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

It looks like the metadata is corrupted on this file.

[mville]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

It looks like the metadata is corrupted on this file.

... which seems to be a problem that is on the increase as more and more users are downloading music files.

Does the Test Conversion DSP find both corrupt audio and corrupt metadata?

[RonM]

Re: Converting multi-channel flac files

Not sure where to find the Test Conversion DSP, it's not in my DSP options.

R.