What conversion parameters for best music quality?

[Julien Pham]

Hi,

So let me explain my situation...
I have a Nokia Lumia 920 on Windows Phone 8. On my computer hard drive I have music encoded in lossless wma format with dbpoweramp from my CD. Now I would like to put those files to my Lumia. No use to put them in lossless quality on my phone, first it will take too much room, second I listen to my music in my car through Bluetooth or with a Bluetooth receiver (headphones) on the go.

I have seen I can encode my music with wma encoder 10 pro with dbpoweramp. Seems a good encoder. But now what kind of parameters to use with this encoder? By default is is Quality (VBR) with VBR Quality 98, 44 kHz, 2 channel 24 bit VBR. Are those settings good? Should I use 2 pass encoding? So what's the best setup for my use?

Thanks

[Spoon]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

Use mp3 at 320kbps CBR, real simple.

[Julien Pham]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

I didn't ask someone to give me another codec, but how I can configure the wma 10 pro codec the best way
Beside, according to what I read on internet, the mp3 codec is not good. Good enough when you can read only this one, but you can have better results (sound quality) with AAC+ and wma with a lower bitrate, and so a smaller file, than with the mp3.

When I had an iPhone I used AAC+ (AAC HE) with 80 bitrate, and it was good, good enough sound quality and small files. Now that I use a Lumia 920 on Windows Phone 8, I'm trying to figure out how to configure the wma 10 pro codecs. According to what I read on the web, it is a good codec.

I can be wrong though, I'm not a sound expert, I only tells what I have read myself on the web, so if you have other informations, feel free to explain me

Thanks for the reply anyway ^^ What is CBR btw?

[Spoon]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

CBR = constant bit rate

Beside, according to what I read on internet, the mp3 codec is not good. Good enough when you can read only this one, but you can have better results (sound quality) with AAC+ and wma with a lower bitrate, and so a smaller file, than with the mp3.

You have been miss-informed, I would guess that for most people, mp3 encoded > 160kbps is transparent (that means most people cannot hear the difference between CD and mp3), 160kbps is half the bit rate of 320kbps...

What you read on the internet about wma, is mainly marketing spiel, it actually came out worse than mp3 about 8 years ago in a listening test...

[Julien Pham]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

8 years ago... it is a while Perhaps the format have changed since ^^
So why you advice mp3 at 320 if 160 is enough?

I have tried AAC HE at 80, which is the max bitrate of the format, and the sound quality was very good, and the file size was smaller. But dbpoweramp cannot encode in this format unless we take a paid component from Nero. That's why I turned to wma 10 pro, as now I'm on windows hardware, windows PC, windows phone.

About AAC HE, I have read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Efficiency_Advanced_Audio_Coding

They say AAC HE at 48 bitrate was defined as excellent quality, better than mp3. Now I do not know about all those testings and how they are made.

What I read about wma pro 10 is that it provide good sound, as long as the hardware supports it.

btw why CBR and not VBR?

[garym]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

install foobar2000. Then install ABX comparator

http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_abx

Then rip some favorite tracks to FLAC as a baseline (lossless). Then create mp3 files at different bitrates, wmp at different rates, etc. Then use the ABX comparator to test yourself on whether you can tell any differences between lossless and lossy and at what bitrate. I suspect you'll not notice any difference until below 128. Once you get to about 160 or higher, it is unlikely that you can tell the difference between any codecs (mp3, wma, aac, etc.) unless something is broken in your playback system.

Personally, I rip all CDs to FLAC (lossless) as archive and for use on home system. I then create a mirror directory of lossy files for use on portables. I use mp3 converted with LAME mp3 at -V2 (average bit rate of about 192). Except in rare cases, I can't ABX these -v2 mp3 files from the original FLAC files.

[Julien Pham]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

Thanks, I'll try this.

I have heard also of Ogg Vorbis, unfortunately this codec is not usable on Windows Phone

I have ripped my CD to wma lossless, because windows media player, the one with windows 8, does not handle FLAC files. Perhaps with a plugin, but not natively...

Why use this one you could say... because it has a good looking interface, and manage music library quite well... except if you can name me a better software to manage my library. Because as well this is a player which can work in the metro UI...

I do like you, I have archived my CD with a lossless format (and I also buy digital music but only lossless) then I encode them to put on my phone. Now just have to figure out what settings and encoder to use.

For WMA Pro 10, for instance, I wonder if I should use CBR or VBR, in the first case which bitrate, and which quality % for VBR, and with two pass encoding or not ^^

[garym]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

yes OGG is a good codec too. But for me, FLAC and mp3 are the most universal and work on everything I use. For a good windows based music library management and player, I highly recommend foobar2000. A bit of a learning curve, but very flexible to be customized to your own favorite use. Also handles almost any sort of codec.

Regarding what to use, only YOU can answer this question. And the best way to answer the question of transparency for yourself is to do the ABX tests as I mentioned. But why even bother. You are very safe with anything at 160 or 192 or better. Just pick this, pick a codec that works with your phone and move on. Listening via phone and headphones in most environments is far from audiophile so in my opinion you are worrying over nothing. At home in a good listening environment, use your lossless.

[Julien Pham]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

At home I do not have a real good listening environment as well, I mean I use a gaming headset from turtle beach, a good one, great for games, unsure it is a good one for music. And so I have no hi fi system, no use as I'll disturb my neighbors if I listen to the music with such a thing, so cannot.

But if you talk about bitrates, you mean I should encode in CBR, and not VBR, right? Any special reason?

I have winamp at home as well, dunno how good it is though, in comparison with foobar2000. I took it because it has great skins, a small skin version I can use to put somewhere on my screen while I play with always on top feature (like when I play eve online I put winamp always on top on my right screen, as I use a triple screen system, to play my music), and browser add-ons. I have installed foobar2000 as well, haven't used it a lot though...

And thanks again for your tips.

Edit : btw as wma lossless is... lossless... I can safely convert it to FLAC or AAC lossless without problem, right?

[garym]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

yes, you can convert from wma lossless to FLAC. Lossless to lossless is OK. Winamp is a good player. Foobar2000 does not play any better in terms of SQ than Winamp or many other players. And they will tell you this quickly at foobar2000 forums. Check out the FAQs there. Unless something is broken, all these players should be indentical as long as they can play the codec itself.

I use VBR because it is more efficient use of space relative to CBR. Lossy is all about tradeoffs between space and sound quality. If one cares about the best possible sound quality, one should use lossless.

At home I do not have a real good listening environment as well, I mean I use a gaming headset from turtle beach, a good one, great for games, unsure it is a good one for music. And so I have no hi fi system, no use as I'll disturb my neighbors if I listen to the music with such a thing, so cannot.

But if you talk about bitrates, you mean I should encode in CBR, and not VBR, right? Any special reason?

I have winamp at home as well, dunno how good it is though, in comparison with foobar2000. I took it because it has great skins, a small skin version I can use to put somewhere on my screen while I play with always on top feature (like when I play eve online I put winamp always on top on my right screen, as I use a triple screen system, to play my music), and browser add-ons. I have installed foobar2000 as well, haven't used it a lot though...

And thanks again for your tips.

Edit : btw as wma lossless is... lossless... I can safely convert it to FLAC or AAC lossless without problem, right?

[Spoon]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

Any lossless format can convert to another lossless format without loss.

Microsoft have abandoned WMA from a development point of view, it is about 5 to 8 years since they last changed it.

I suggest 320kbps because that is the best you can encode at, you wanted to know what the best was, not the most likely to be transparent.

[Julien Pham]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

Hehe then I didn't explain well what I mean Transparent is what I meant according to what I have read on your answers. When I say "best" I would have said "best for my use"

wma pro 10 is old as well? Microsoft has completely abandoned wma dev? Even the pro version?

If I do the foobar test, it will tell me what bitrate is transparent for me. Then what? VBR is usually better than CBR, right? On a website they say a VBR98 is about 320 bitrate, and VBR90 is about 192. But as it is "variable" bitrate, I guess this is not really that...

Should I do a two pass encoding or a one pass, as well? Dunno what use is a two pass encoding...

Thanks

[Spoon]

Re: What conversion parameters for best music quality?

Supposedly 2 pass is better.