LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

[jasonwc]

I'm trying to figure out how to encode using the "-V 0 --vbr-new" standard with dbPoweramp R12. I've set the target to VBR, selected the V 0 option, and set the encoding to "Slow (High Quality)".



Initially I thought the Fast encoding setting referred to the fast VBR encoding method (--vbr-new) as -V 0 --vbr-new is identical to --preset fast extreme. However, it encoded far too quickly, and was producing filesizes larger than expected. So, I set the encoding quality to Slow (High Quality) and now the file sizes are within a few KB of encodes I did using the LAME CLI. But I'm still not sure if my settings are identical to -V 0 --vbr-new.

Also, if I wanted to use the CLI encoder, what command line options would I use?

Currently I have this set: -V 0 --vbr-new [infile] [outfile]

[LtData]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

Put quotes around [infile] [outfile]. But dMC does use the --vbr-new method with all VBR encoding. Remember, two encoders can produce differently sized files from the same source, especially if they are two different programs.

[jasonwc]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

Both should be using the same encoder (LAME 3.97 Stable). How does the dbpoweramp lame plugin work? Does it simply send commands to LAME like EAC, and have LAME do the encoding on its own? If so, there should be some way to find out what options are being sent to LAME.

Also, how would I use the CLI plugin to rip to RAM rather than to a .wav file? It takes significantly longer using the CLI method with my current settings as it has to write the .wav file to disk first before encoding the mp3.

Current settings:-V 0 --vbr-new "[infile]" "[outfile]"

EDIT: I just encoded the same song in EAC, foobar2000, and in dbpoweramp using the CLI LAME Encoder using -V 0 --vbr-new, and did a bit-comparison of the audio stream in foobar2000. All were identical, despite the fact that the files had different files sizes due to differences in ID3 tags.

However, dbpoweramp's Lame plugin created a file that was different using the settings I have pictured above.

[LtData]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

Try using a - for the infile which, if the exe supports it, would use stdin to give input to the lame encoder.

dMC hooks into the LAME.dll to encode to mp3.

As I said, two programs using exactly the same encoder, in this case slightly different as one is exe and one is dll, will produce differently sized files if VBR is used.

[jasonwc]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

Replacing [infile] with - did the trick. Now I can confirm that EAC, foobar2000, and dbpoweramp w/ CLI plugin can produce identical audio streams so long as the same options are passed to LAME.

Thanks for your help. I'm pretty sure there's nothing wrong with what dbpoweramp is doing, however the CLI method assures me that I'm getting a proper "-V 0 --vbr-new" output.

[ezra2323]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

LT Data, I admit to being confused. All VBR encodes (for -V 0) use --vbr new but the speed and resultant file size of -V --vbr new can be varied? I thought the command line -V 0 --vbr new basically set the parameters for optimization and no variance from these parameters was allowed.

I only ask becuase I have the same question. I want to use dBPoweramp to make -V0 --vbr new encodes.

[jasonwc]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

Well, that's the thing. We don't know if V0, High Quality (Slow Encoding) in dbpoweramp is actually sending "-V 0 --vbr-new" to LAME. It may be adding other options, or doing something slightly differently. If you want to be certain you're getting a -V 0 --vbr-new output, use the CLI encoder, download LAME 3.97, and use this as your command line:

-V 0 --vbr-new - "[outfile]"

[LtData]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

Spoon himself stated that --vbr-new is used here: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=12203

The parameters are the same, yes, but the two programs might decide that one section needs two different but close bitrates at any give point.

[jasonwc]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

It does seem that dbpoweramp is doing something differently. With the CLI it took me exactly 4 minutes and 30 seconds to encode. Yet, with dbpoweramp's plugin it took 4 minutes and 55 seconds, and I repeated the test to ensure it wasn't an anomaly.

[jasonwc]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

I'm not sure what Spoon meant when he said "We are using the new lame, so all switches are 'New'"

Is he referring to the fact that dbpoweramp now uses the -V # switches rather than --preset X, or that all VBR encoding now uses the "new" fast VBR encoding method- "--vbr-new"?

Because, you can still encode without "--vbr-new". Also, all of the --preset switches still work.

--preset fast extreme = -V 0 --vbr-new
--preset extreme = - V 0

EDIT: I encoded the same album with Foobar2000 using -V 0 --vbr-new, and it too took 4 minutes and 30 seconds to encode whereas dbpoweramp consistently takes around 5 minutes. It seems it's using different encoding options.

[LtData]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

jasonwc: mabye an experiment is in order: encode via dMC to -V 0, then use the CLI to do -V 0 and -V 0 --vbr-new

After I re-read my link, I realized that it is a little vague, so Spoon will have to clarify himself.

[jasonwc]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

No, it's not doing -V 0. It does seem to be doing -V 0 --vbr-new, however it's taking longer than foobar2000 for dbpoweramp CLI, and it's doing so consistently. That leads me to believe it has some additional options which is causing the differences in output. Is there any way to find the exact command line options that are being passed to dbpoweramp's LAME dll?

With -V 0 filesize is 7,345 KB, and it encodes at 10x. With -V 0 --vbr-new filesize is 7,151 KB, and it encodes at 15-16x. EAC and Foobar2000 output 7,149 KB files at 15-16x however EAC, foobar2000, and dbpoweramp CLI all produce bit identical audio streams.

[LtData]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

It might be the "Encoding" setting. Try using "Slow" and "Fast".

Edit: Also, in case you are wondering, turning on Debug mode doesn't give the command-line that is used.

[jasonwc]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

I am using Slow as the encoding setting currently. Apparently by default, LAME uses the highest quality encoding setting. Slow is the only one that provides a file size near the other -V 0 --vbr-new encodes. Normal and Fast are too fast - 18x, and 22x respectively, and produce larger files.

The strange thing is that -V 0, Slow in dbpoweramp produces a file nearly the same size as dbpoweramp CLI (7,151 KB) while EAC and foobar2000 always produce 7,149 KB files. Yet, the dbpoweramp LAME plugin output is always different from that of the dbpoweramp CLI, foobar2000, and EAC, which are always bit-identical.

Comparison between dbpoweramp CLI encode and dbpoweramp LAME plugin:

Comparing:
"D:\Lossless CD Archive\Brandenburg Concertos (Britten & ECO) {CD1}\01 - J. S. Bach - J.S. Bach , Brandenburg Concerto No. 1 in F major BWV 1046 I. Allegro.mp3"
"C:\Documents and Settings\Jason Wittlin-Cohen\My Documents\01 - J. S. Bach - J.S. Bach , Brandenburg Concerto No. 1 in F major BWV 1046 I. Allegro.mp3"
differences found: 446430 sample(s), starting at 3.9979138 second(s), peak: 0.0117621 at 175.2760318 second(s), 1ch

Comparison between dbpoweramp CLI encode and foobar2000 encode:

Comparing:
"D:\Lossless CD Archive\Brandenburg Concertos (Britten & ECO) {CD1}\01 - J. S. Bach - J.S. Bach , Brandenburg Concerto No. 1 in F major BWV 1046 I. Allegro.mp3"
"C:\Documents and Settings\Jason Wittlin-Cohen\My Documents\01 - J.S. Bach - J.S. Bach _ Brandenburg Concerto No. 1 in F major BWV 1046 I. Allegro.mp3"
No differences in decoded data found.

[jasonwc]

Re: LAME -V0 --vbr-new equivilant setting

This is why having the option to manually enter command line options is always nice. You know for a certainty what's being done. With a GUI alone, you're stuck staring into a black box.