Struggling to match Apple lossless

[james777]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and new to ripping in the pursuit of cd/high res quality.

I will shortly have an Astell and Kern SR25 mk2 with Meze Classics but until then until I've been experimenting with ripping/file formats on an old MacBook Pro (mid 2012 dual core i7 running 10.15) and Music (1.0.6).

The problem I have is that if I rip Wave, or AIFF, using db (17.7), then import into Music and save to my iPhone (15.5) the files do not quite sound as good as streaming the same tracks apple lossless.

I don't tweak db, merely change to Wave or AIFF, and keep the sample rate/bit depth the same as original. The file version sounds slightly more compressed, with less definition, less warmth and a lower output volume.

Am I missing something here?

Cheers,
James.

[garym]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

something is not right as these are all lossless and should sound identical. Are you sure that Apple Music or your phone is not adding soundcheck (volume adjustment) values to the files. Do the files contain ReplayGain tags? I Don't use apple music, but are you sure in the uploading to your phone that there is not some conversion being done (transcoding to m4a).

As a test, can you listen to these files on your Mac via headphones and compare. This will take the phone out of the equation for testing.

p.s. I assume you realize that Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV, FLAC are all lossless codecs, and there is no reason that on any relatively modern playback system (certainly including any iPhone newer than 10 years old), they shouldn't sound exactly the same. Other than creating larger size files and not having metadata (tagging) support as well recognized for WAV and AIFF, that there is no impact of making these changes. WAV or AIFF doesn't sound any better. These are not "hi-res" as compared to Apple Lossless. Apple Lossess, WAV, AIFF are all decoded to the exact same PCM file by your player for playback.

[james777]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the advice.

Taking the phone out of the equation worked and the Wav/AIFF now sound the same as an apple lossless stream but there are some gain differences.

How do you check for ReplayGain tags?

What would your advice be for a ripping format, in order to preserve album metadata, if file size is not a consideration?

Thanks,
James.

[garym]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

Look at the tags of the file using dbpoweramp or any tagging program. if there are replaygain tags, they will show up (just like ARTIST, GENRE, etc.). There could be 4 tags, ALBUM GAIN, TRACK GAIN, and two peak tags. But unlikely they are there unless you added the DSP when ripped or converted. Also make sure there is no apple "soundcheck" value (which may show up in tags as iTunNORM or something similar (and this may be embedded in any COMMENT tag).

iphones/ipads as far as I know cannot play FLAC files (which is what I use). If I wanted something that iphone could play, I'd stick with Apple Lossless (ALAC) . This is a better option than either WAV or AIFF. Both ALAC and FLAC are well supported with tagging and are bit perfect lossless formats. There are a few advantages to FLAC (as it has an embedded checksum at the time of creation, and one can then check one's library for any corrupted files after the fact with a simple batch procedure (e.g., using TEST CONVERSION in dbpoweramp converter).

I use an iphone for music on the go as well. For my archive and home system, I use FLAC files. I then use TuneFusion (also made by illustrate) to do automatic batch conversions of portions of my FLAC library to m4a or mp3 for use on my iphone. This software also transfers these files to the iphone for playback. So I don't have to use iTunes to get my files on my iphone.

[garym]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

to add to this, my use of FLAC is not at all based on file size savings. It is based on wanting a lossless codec, with widespread support, that has standard support of metadata (tagging) and built in checksums (for the ability to batch check corruption of my library at any time in the future). The file size savings is nice, but no longer needed in modern times with cheap/small storage.

[james777]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

Thanks Gary.
I&*8217;m moving away from using an iPhone and will shortly have an Astell and Kern SR25 mk2 with Meze Classics. I&*8217;ll start from scratch at that point ripping again my CD&*8217;s so flac comparability with Apple won&*8217;t be an issue. Do you use flac lossless and do you have any advice re tickboxes/options using db for flac and keeping all metadata?

Cheers,
James.

[garym]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

I ripped my over 5,000 CDs to FLAC with dbpa at -5 compression. If I was doing it again I'd use -8 (maximum). Keep in mind these are all lossless (bitperfect copies of the original CD). It takes a bit more processing power to CREATE (encode) the FLAC files at a higher compression rate, but the playback of the file (decoding) is essentially unrelated to how much compression the FLAC file had. And to emphasize, compression of the file has nothing to do with lossy vs lossless. All FLAC files are LOSSLESS and decode to the full bit perfect CD information.

Regarding ticking what for metadata, it depends on how much info you want in your tags. I keep it simple, with ARTIST, ALBUM, GENRE, ALBUM ARTIST, COMPOSER. I don't bother with the various SORT tags. But some folks really like those. Take a look at all the options and see what you want for your own use case. I don't embed the artwork in each track, and rather have dbpa create a single copy in my album folder (cover.jpg at 1000x1000 max). I'll try to post a pic later of my 'ticked' items.

For the dynamic naming, I use the following which addresses multidisks and compilations (various artists) automatically. (if you use a Mac, change all back slashes to forward slashes).

[MAXLENGTH]240,[IFCOMP]Compilations\[album][IFMULTI]\Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI]\Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][][]

[garym]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

my metadata options. See attached pdf file at link. this will only be there a couple of days, so save if you want it. Note: there is no right answer here. tagging is a very personal thing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5p7eejtc3arqyx/dbpaTAGS.pdf?dl=0

[garym]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

And experiment a bit with your rips early on. Try single disks, multi disks, various artists, etc. Play around with a few rips of these types and see how your music server and player report things. The worst thing you can do is rip 5,000 CDs and then decide your tagging is all wrong.

[james777]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

Thanks for the metadata doc, much appreciated, and the advice.

I'll stick to db/flac/Mac for my ripping platform but want to move away from iTunes to integrate playlists on Astell and Kern.

What alternative players would you recommend for Mac?

[garym]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

Thanks for the metadata doc, much appreciated, and the advice.

I'll stick to db/flac/Mac for my ripping platform but want to move away from iTunes to integrate playlists on Astell and Kern.

What alternative players would you recommend for Mac?

as a windows user, i'm not a good source for Mac players. I use foobar2000 to play on windows, and I know they now have a Mac version. But that's for mostly playing via my computer speakers. For my main playback system at home, that streams from my music server (that holds my files) to my endpoint players (connected to my main stereo), I use LMS (Logitech Media Server) or Roon Labs. Both work with Mac, Windows, Linux. How are you going to send your music to your new system. You need to explore that more. Maybe your new system is UpNP capable? If so, you could use Illustrate's program ASSET running on your Mac to feed your music to the system. Anyhow, more info needed from you on some of that sort of thing.

[james777]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

At the moment my focus is on moving away from iPhone to DAP and I'm looking at this:

https://www.astellkern.co.uk/a-norma-sr25-mkii.html

My hifi separates will require an upgrade at a later stage but for now I'd connect the A and K unbalanced if need be.

Cheers.

[james777]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

My main focus is to replace my iPhone with a DAP:

https://www.astellkern.co.uk/a-norma-sr25-mkii.html

My hifi upgrade will come later but for now I'll integrate the A and K via unbalanced RCA if need be.

Cheers.

[james777]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

my focus at the moment is to move away from iPhone to a DAP and I've chosen the Astell and Kern SR25 MK2 with Meze Classics headphones.

Hifi upgrade will come later but if I need to connect the A and K I'll use unbalanced RCA for now.

[garym]

Re: Struggling to match Apple lossless

my focus at the moment is to move away from iPhone to a DAP and I've chosen the Astell and Kern SR25 MK2 with Meze Classics headphones.

Hifi upgrade will come later but if I need to connect the A and K I'll use unbalanced RCA for now.

got it. So you will just need software to transfer the FLAC files to your player. I assume this can be done by directly connecting the player to your Mac and transferring the files. the Astell and Kern info should tell you options for how to do this.

And I see this DAP can use ReplayGain tags. So on your new FLAC rips, I'd suggest adding ReplayGain DSP. This is added in the "DSP" tab in lower center of CD Ripper screen. this is the only DSP I use in ripping CDs. I set to add both TRACK and ALBUM replaygain values. In the advanced options for RG DSP I select "use ALBUM ID Tag", method EBU R128, 18 target volume, and do NOT click 'disable clipping prevention'.

This way, you'll have the ReplayGain tags in your metadata and they can be turned on or off in your player. You don't have to use them, but they'll be there if you decide to use.