Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

[mville]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

Are you able to read discs in non-Illustrate software i.e. can you play CDs or play BD movies or read CD-R data discs successfully, in either drive?

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

Are you able to read discs in non-Illustrate software i.e. can you play CDs or play BD movies or read CD-R data discs successfully, in either drive?

Absolutely. All the trouble seems to exist purely in the range of precision work. LOL!
I can play any given CD in either drive through VLC Media Player, Foobar2000, Windows Media Player, and so on. It's perfectly smooth audio playback under such conditions. Standard audio playback through dBpoweramp is also trouble free. But, I'd expect simple playback not to tax the system like secure ripping would.

Also, I have some technical data I just pulled together. Things have become just a bit stranger.

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

@artisan002, Thanks for the clarification and mea culpa. Sounds like a hectic time and I know how frustrating it can be when something doesn't work the way it should and you can't get to the bottom of it. You have a lot of moving parts here. I always like to start with simple things in my testing. Thus the recommendation to test WITHOUT "use C2 errors checked". That may not be the problem, but it will be useful to get that simple and obvious explanation out of the way, one way or the other. I look forward to your report of this simple test.

Well, while knowing how humans work and all that, I absolutely hate mistakes. So, the faster they can be cut short, the faster better progress can be made.

Speaking of, there have been some interesting changes in detailed information since this Windows Update. I am convinced their I/O changes have made a difference here, though possibly one to do with more accurately talking to device firmware.
This past winter, the newly installed Blu-Ray drive had relatively identical data on it's Technical page as the DVD. Now, it's different... Among the changes it now says it does not support C2, it not claims a maximum speed of "22050 KB/sec (x125)," and it's Spin-down After value has changed to "Never." I've not tampered with this drive much. So, it's firmware is exactly as it was the day I put it in the system. To me, but that's just weird.

Stranger yet, I've just ripped the exact same CD with both drives. They were both set to rip as Ultra Secure, 3-pass, varied drive speed for each pass... The Plextor outright drive ignored those rules and ran in what appears to be Burst mode. Meanwhile, the Pioneer drive did it all as expected. The rip logs are predictably very different.PLEXTOR; ULT-SEC; 3-PASS; Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen - Theme from Mission; Impossible.txtPIONEER; ULT-SEC; 3-PASS; Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen - Theme from Mission; Impossible.txt

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

Heh. So, I added to this thread right after my last comment. Still not showing up. Of course, I did add a pair of .txt file rip logs. No doubt, the security issues with that are likely why it needs a moderator to approve it for posting... My point being that there's a bit more to show for, but it's just a question of time.

[mville]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

I can play any given CD in either drive through VLC Media Player, Foobar2000, Windows Media Player, and so on. It's perfectly smooth audio playback under such conditions. Standard audio playback through dBpoweramp is also trouble free.

That would suggest the BIOS and drives configurations are fine.

So, can you say that the ONLY problem you experience with the drives, is when using CD Ripper?

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

That would suggest the BIOS and drives configurations are fine.

So, can you say that the ONLY problem you experience with the drives, is when using CD Ripper?

Yes. More specifically when doing anything more precision oriented than burst mode. Now, it's gotten stranger still, though. I deactivated C2 error checking, @garym was suggesting.

Semi-related, I couldn't get the app to offset check the Blu-Ray drive for a couple hours; that was odd, but it eventually got it -- apparently I needed to use a different CD than the one I'd used on the DVD drive. Just odd.

Now, what's really weird is the fact that I then ripped the same CD with each drive. Both were set with C2 off,Ultra Secure on, 3-pass rip complete with varied speed per pass. The Blu-Ray drive ran as instructed and even had to re-rip some frames. The Plextor drive outright ignored the mode, instead ripping the disc at a speed that would indicate it ran in Burst mode.
Naturally, I set them up to write complete logs of the rips. The Plextor drive's log confirms it ran one pass only, and the Blu-Ray drive had a lot more to show for and showed the multiple passes.

At this point, I'm starting to think it's more time and work efficient to just pitch the Plextor drive into the side of the house. I got it because the thread on best optical drives to buy ranked it towards the top of the list. But, that thread is also fairly old, and maybe all the changes Plextor has since made to their business structure included shorting their (consumer) optical drive quality.

[garym]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

The Plextor drive outright ignored the mode, instead ripping the disc at a speed that would indicate it ran in Burst mode.
Naturally, I set them up to write complete logs of the rips. The Plextor drive's log confirms it ran one pass only, and the Blu-Ray drive had a lot more to show for and showed the multiple passes.

You didn't mention whether the ripped CD had an ACCURATERIP match or not. If there was an AR match, the speed would in fact be as fast as burst, because it wouldn't need to do the additional passes with matched AR. That's in fact the beauty of dbpa ripping. If match AR, then it is very fast and doesn't need extra passes. If it doesn't match AR, then the Secure ripping settings kick in and you get the multiple passes.

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

You didn't mention whether the ripped CD had an ACCURATERIP match or not. If there was an AR match, the speed would in fact be as fast as burst, because it wouldn't need to do the additional passes with matched AR. That's in fact the beauty of dbpa ripping. If match AR, then it is very fast and doesn't need extra passes. If it doesn't match AR, then the Secure ripping settings kick in and you get the multiple passes.

Heh. Yeah. I was tired when I typed that. Lemme go find the rip logs. I tried to attach them earlier and it simply failed out. Should have just copied and pasted instead.

dBpoweramp Release 16.6 Digital Audio Extraction Log from Tuesday, July 23, 2019 05:58


Drive & Settings
----------------


Ripping with drive 'E: [PLEXTOR - PX-891SAF PLUS ]', Drive offset: 6, Overread Lead-in/out: Yes
AccurateRip: Active, Using C2: No, Cache: None, FUA Cache Invalidate: Yes
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max, Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Ultra:: Vary Drive Speed: Yes, Min Passes: 3, Max Passes: 6, Finish After Clean Passes: 2
Bad Sector Re-rip:: Drive Speed: Max, Maximum Re-reads: 34


Encoder: FLAC -uncompressed -verify
DSP Effects / Actions: -dspeffect1="HDCD=" -dspeffect2="ReplayGain= -albummode={qt}0{qt} -r128lufs={qt}-18{qt}"


Extraction Log
--------------


Track 1: Ripped LBA 0 to 15662 (3:28) in 0:15. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\01 Theme from Mission; Impossible._
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 31) [Pass 1]
CRC32: 9D021499 AccurateRip CRC: 076ED538 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-1]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 31 [CRCv2 76ed538]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 27 [CRCv1 69b9d88c]


Track 2: Ripped LBA 15662 to 29582 (3:05) in 0:08. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\02 Mission; Impossible Theme (Mission Accomplished)._
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 30) [Pass 1]
CRC32: C7F67747 AccurateRip CRC: EF1FE721 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-2]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 30 [CRCv2 ef1fe721]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 27 [CRCv1 aa007380]


Track 3: Ripped LBA 29582 to 45050 (3:26) in 0:09. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\03 Theme from Mission; Impossible (Guru mix)._
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 31) [Pass 1]
CRC32: F8773D45 AccurateRip CRC: 54352664 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-3]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 31 [CRCv2 54352664]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 27 [CRCv1 5dc75129]


Track 4: Ripped LBA 45050 to 85125 (8:54) in 0:20. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\04 Theme from Mission; Impossible (Junior's Hard mix)._
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 31) [Pass 1]
CRC32: 39138834 AccurateRip CRC: 674A44F2 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-4]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 31 [CRCv2 674a44f2]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 27 [CRCv1 53d25d68]


Track 5: Ripped LBA 85125 to 105450 (4:31) in 0:09. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\05 Mission; Impossible Theme (Mission Accomplished) (Dave Clarke remix)._
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 30) [Pass 1]
CRC32: 9F852288 AccurateRip CRC: 37FB704C (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-5]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 30 [CRCv2 37fb704c]
AccurateRip Verified Confidence 26 [CRCv1 dc50a479]


--------------


5 Tracks Ripped Accurately

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

Now.., the same disc on the Blu-Ray drive.

dBpoweramp Release 16.6 Digital Audio Extraction Log from Tuesday, July 23, 2019 15:39


Drive & Settings
----------------


Ripping with drive 'D: [PIONEER - BD-RW BDR-209D]', Drive offset: 0, Overread Lead-in/out: Yes
AccurateRip: Active, Using C2: No, Cache: None, FUA Cache Invalidate: Yes
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max, Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Ultra:: Vary Drive Speed: Yes, Min Passes: 3, Max Passes: 6, Finish After Clean Passes: 2
Bad Sector Re-rip:: Drive Speed: Max, Maximum Re-reads: 34


Encoder: FLAC -uncompressed -verify
DSP Effects / Actions: -dspeffect1="HDCD=" -dspeffect2="ReplayGain= -albummode={qt}0{qt} -r128lufs={qt}-18{qt}"


Extraction Log
--------------


Track 1: Ripped LBA 0 to 15662 (3:28) in 1:13. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\01 Theme from Mission; Impossible._
Secure [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 3]
CRC32: D5389B0F AccurateRip CRC: FF5AD8B2 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-1]


Track 2: Ripped LBA 15662 to 29582 (3:05) in 1:31. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\02 Mission; Impossible Theme (Mission Accomplished)._
Secure (Warning) [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 6, Re-Rip 9 Frames]
CRC32: F9216983 AccurateRip CRC: F7E9BEB4 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-2]
Re-rip Frame: 19536 (00:00:51.653) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 19584 (00:00:52.293) matched 10 / 10
Re-rip Frame: 19594 (00:00:52.426) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 19632 (00:00:52.933) matched 10 / 10
Re-rip Frame: 19633 (00:00:52.946) matched 10 / 10
Re-rip Frame: 19729 (00:00:54.226) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 19738 (00:00:54.346) matched 10 / 12
Re-rip Frame: 19796 (00:00:55.120) matched 10 / 10
Re-rip Frame: 19854 (00:00:55.893) matched 10 / 10


Track 3: Ripped LBA 29582 to 45050 (3:26) in 0:55. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\03 Theme from Mission; Impossible (Guru mix)._
Secure [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 3]
CRC32: 4F4C833E AccurateRip CRC: A6B91790 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-3]


Track 4: Ripped LBA 45050 to 85125 (8:54) in 2:02. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\04 Theme from Mission; Impossible (Junior's Hard mix)._
Secure [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 3]
CRC32: E3B7EA5F AccurateRip CRC: F74C6E45 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-4]


Track 5: Ripped LBA 85125 to 105450 (4:31) in 4:04. Filename: F:\MUSICA\Audio - ARCHIVE\Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen\Theme from Mission; Impossible\05 Mission; Impossible Theme (Mission Accomplished) (Dave Clarke remix)._
Secure (Warning) [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 6, Re-Rip 437 Frames]
CRC32: 1C32447B AccurateRip CRC: 19ED69B7 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 005-00044925-0014bb04-2b057e05-5]
Re-rip Frame: 88255 (00:00:41.733) matched 10 / 10
Re-rip Frame: 88591 (00:00:46.213) matched 10 / 15
Re-rip Frame: 88603 (00:00:46.373) matched 10 / 10
Re-rip Frame: 88616 (00:00:46.546) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 88629 (00:00:46.720) matched 10 / 10
Re-rip Frame: 88668 (00:00:47.240) matched 10 / 12
Re-rip Frame: 88694 (00:00:47.586) matched 10 / 19
Re-rip Frame: 88707 (00:00:47.760) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 88720 (00:00:47.933) matched 10 / 22
Re-rip Frame: 88733 (00:00:48.106) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 88758 (00:00:48.440) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 88784 (00:00:48.786) matched 10 / 15
Re-rip Frame: 88810 (00:00:49.133) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 88849 (00:00:49.653) matched 10 / 22
Re-rip Frame: 88900 (00:00:50.333) matched 10 / 13
Re-rip Frame: 88913 (00:00:50.506) matched 10 / 12
Re-rip Frame: 88914 (00:00:50.520) matched 10 / 15
Re-rip Frame: 88939 (00:00:50.853) matched 10 / 14
Re-rip Frame: 88940 (00:00:50.866) matched 10 / 13
Re-rip Frame: 88952 (00:00:51.026) matched 10 / 10
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Re-rip Frame: 89367 (00:00:56.560) matched 10 / 19
Re-rip Frame: 89379 (00:00:56.720) matched 10 / 21
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Re-rip Frame: 89392 (00:00:56.893) matched 10 / 17
Re-rip Frame: 89393 (00:00:56.906) matched 10 / 13
Re-rip Frame: 89431 (00:00:57.413) matched 10 / 19
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Re-rip Frame: 89535 (00:00:58.800) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 89587 (00:00:59.493) matched 10 / 22
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Re-rip Frame: 89626 (00:01:00.013) matched 10 / 10
Re-rip Frame: 89638 (00:01:00.173) matched 10 / 22
Re-rip Frame: 89651 (00:01:00.346) matched 10 / 17
Re-rip Frame: 89652 (00:01:00.360) matched 10 / 15
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Re-rip Frame: 89717 (00:01:01.226) matched 10 / 15
Re-rip Frame: 89730 (00:01:01.400) matched 10 / 13
Re-rip Frame: 89742 (00:01:01.560) matched 10 / 14
Re-rip Frame: 89743 (00:01:01.573) matched 10 / 12
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Re-rip Frame: 89847 (00:01:02.960) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 89859 (00:01:03.120) matched 10 / 22
Re-rip Frame: 89860 (00:01:03.133) matched 10 / 15
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Re-rip Frame: 89898 (00:01:03.640) matched 10 / 15
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Re-rip Frame: 90054 (00:01:05.720) matched 10 / 15
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--------------


5 Tracks Ripped: 3 Secure, 2 Secure (Warning)

[garym]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

As I suspected, with the first drive you had accuraterip matches, so it should have been as fast as burst with only the single pass (that's the correct way secure ripping with AccurateRip works). With the bluray disk, you did NOT get an AR match and therefore it did the multiple passes.

This is all correct behavior based on how the software is supposed to work.

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

Humorous note here...
Prior to yesterday, I had always assumed the Technical page simply displayed Plug and Play data reported by any given drive. Accordingly, I was concerned when that page indicated the Blu-Ray drive lacked C2 pointers, but could read at an improbable, unadvertised x125 speed.
I also had a moment of trouble with getting dBpoweramp to determine an offset for it, until I used a different CD than I had with the DVD drive; evidently, you can't use the same disc back to back between multiple drives.
So, on a lark, I ran a C2 error check anyway. Not only did it manage to run the check without the start-stop-start pattern that's been my bane so far, it came back positive for support!
Naturally, I went back to the Technical page to look for changes. The read speed was a sane, proper value, but it still read as no C2 support.
By that point, I was just curious and running behind on a couple projects. So, I spent a good few hours letting it Ultra Secure rip a worn out CD (rip as one, btw), with C2 error checking back on. It took forever, but c'mon. It was an old disc from 1993 being ripped as one on 3-pass, varied speed Ultra Secure rip, and it has enough wear and tear that dBpoweramp came back with something like 150000 or 15000 frames to re-rip (I was tired by this point and my left eye is not a team player). LOL!

All the while, it was smooth, calm, and quiet.

Admittedly, I couldn't wait up for the drive to finish the rip, so I came back in after sleeping to find it was complete. But, now that I've noticed a pattern, I looked again at the Technical page. It has reverted to say the drive can read as fast as x125. LOL! I have no idea what this is about. I'm not particularly concerned about it as long as everything works as needed, but it is a bit strange.

I'm playing the rip in Foobar2000 now. So far, it sounds completely fine. No rip log, though. But, I also had it set to rip down to a single preposterously huge 32 bit floating point, 96kHz sample rate .wav file. So, not being much like the original media may be a factor.


What I've gotten out of all this so far (and I feel like I should apologize for even asking about so much fluctuating, weird sh*t) is that the Plextor drive is just a mess, but the Pioneer Blu-Ray drive is now doing completely fine... This makes me all the more curious about that "May 2019" (v1903) Windows 10 update. Because, both drives did the same thing before then.

I was also finally able to confirm that I'd updated the firmware on both drives this past winter after all. (Thank god girlfriends have better memory of this detail than I have right now)

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

As I suspected, with the first drive you had accuraterip matches, so it should have been as fast as burst with only the single pass (that's the correct way secure ripping with AccurateRip works). With the bluray disk, you did NOT get an AR match and therefore it did the multiple passes.

This is all correct behavior based on how the software is supposed to work.

Okay. So, when telling it to run 3-pass, it doens't actually do it unless the first and possibly the second one fail?

Secondarily, which of the two drives is right, then? I'm guessing the Pioneer, since it apparently supports C2 after all.

[garym]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

Okay. So, when telling it to run 3-pass, it doens't actually do it unless the first and possibly the second one fail?

Secondarily, which of the two drives is right, then? I'm guessing the Pioneer, since it apparently supports C2 after all.

it's not that the first fails. If the first pass gets an AccurateRip match, then it doesn't need to do anything else. I'd say the one that found the accuraterip match is the good rip. The odds of finding an accuraterip match with > 1 match that is a false match is probably a trillion to one. That is, it doesn't get any better than an AccurateRip match to confirm that you have a bit perfect rip. Your rip, on your computer and your copy of the CD, matched bitperfect with rips of others on different machines with different copies of the CD. Can't get more sure than that.

[artisan002]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

it's not that the first fails. If the first pass gets an AccurateRip match, then it doesn't need to do anything else. I'd say the one that found the accuraterip match is the good rip. The odds of finding an accuraterip match with > 1 match that is a false match is probably a trillion to one. That is, it doesn't get any better than an AccurateRip match to confirm that you have a bit perfect rip. Your rip, on your computer and your copy of the CD, matched bitperfect with rips of others on different machines with different copies of the CD. Can't get more sure than that.

Alright. So, that raises the question of relevance of C2 error checking. What's the hierarchy there? I mean, the "bit perfect" promise is hard to miss, and there's a reasonable amount of fault tolerance already built into the CD spec. But I have had occasions where CDs failed Accurate Rip in Secure Rip modes and then come out fine in Burst. Well, unless we want to just pass it off as the trouble with C2 implementation.

[garym]

Re: Looking for advice on glacial, on/off reading pattern with secure ripping

Alright. So, that raises the question of relevance of C2 error checking. What's the hierarchy there? I mean, the "bit perfect" promise is hard to miss, and there's a reasonable amount of fault tolerance already built into the CD spec. But I have had occasions where CDs failed Accurate Rip in Secure Rip modes and then come out fine in Burst. Well, unless we want to just pass it off as the trouble with C2 implementation.

AccurateRip match is so much better test than C2 of a bit perfect rip. I have plenty of CDs I've ripped that did NOT get an AR match, but still ripped as "secure" and play fine (I don't hear any problems. And note that AR will not match if a few frames are off, even though those few frames are not even audible in playblack). Hard to tell with your posts, but to be clear, you DO understand how AR works and why it is a powerful test, correct?

But I think you're just being OCD now.